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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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 Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 2:12 pm Post subject: Zenkimchi got his money |
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Ah score one for the waegook, Joe over at Zenkimchi has finally been awarded his money (cash in hand) from his former employer.
The brief story goes like this:
1) Joe works for a psycho woman. Even other hagwon owners don't respect her.
2) Joe makes the mistake of letting his employer know well in advance that he's not going to renew and has signed a new contract. He also makes the error of letting her know where he's moving to.
3) His psycho boss calls his new boss and tells him Joe is a bad teacher etc. The new boss knows this woman by reputation and disregards her warning.
4) The woman tells Joe he's a bad teacher, he's driven away too many children, and he won't be getting his severance pay.
5) Joe goes to his new employer and also goes to the labor board. The labor board throws the book at his psych boss.
6) (I'm a bit hazy on this part) The crazy woman doesn't want to pay, Joe then takes her to court. The judge tacks on additional damages. Joe is awarded about 7 million won by the judge.
7) The woman refuses to pay.
8 ) Joe's lawyer gets a lean against her bank/assets.
9) Joe makes the mistake about blogging about it. Joe wants to lay everything out so people will know what they have to do if they find themselves in a similar situation. Unfortunately, Joe doesn't know about Korea's libel laws. Even if you're reporting the truth, you can be sued.
10) Psycho boss woman finds out about Joe's blogging (probably googling herself). She has Joe arrested for criminal libel. Joe is arrested by the Korean cops 'n' everything.
11) Psycho boss then counter sues for libel.
12) Joe wins in court, although with reduced damages.
13) Psycho boss appeals and appeals and appeals. The basis for her appeals seems to be "he's not Korean and foreigners should not be able to win in court". Judges seem to buy this argument for appeal.
14) Joe waits patiently for about 2 years.
15) Joe finally gets his money, about 4 million.
Joe is able to do this because 1) he doesn't take crap lying down. 2) he's got a great Korean GF who can handle a lot of the translation stuff 3) he was fortunate enough to have another job with a good boss so he had the ability to stay in Korea and fight the dirty sk�nk. |
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Rutherford
Joined: 31 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Can anyone explain these libel laws? I'd like to know before I go running my mouth. |
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ED209
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Can I date Zenkimchi's girlfriend? |
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wylies99
Joined: 13 May 2006
Location: I'm one cool cat!
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| Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Why didn't he post it? |
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Straphanger
Joined: 09 Oct 2008
Location: Chilgok, Korea
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| Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Rutherford wrote: |
| Can anyone explain these libel laws? I'd like to know before I go running my mouth. |
U.S. Libel (or slander) laws:
1) Something must be published (slander = spoken) in a public enough manner (not in your diary) that is not true.
2) In order to have a cause of action for libel, the plaintiff needs to prove that they have lost reputation or credibility, and will therefore suffer an economic hardship.
For example: This is an internet forum. While it is not hosted in Korea, it still meets the standards of being public enough for false statements to be libelous. Remember that libelous does not mean inflammatory:
Rutherford's mother sucks diseased horse (shoes) in hell.
That's inflammatory. I can't be sued for writing that. If your name was Jack Offerson, however, and I said this about you:
Jack Offerson is the worst teacher in the industry. He spends half his class time playing hangman and the other half with his cameraphone under the table. I know this because I worked with him at Generic Hakwon X on Ddung-do island.
The following week, your employer tells you that your services are no longer required, and they will not be renewing your contract.
This causes you financial hardship (obviously, you lost your job) and I have committed an act of libel. You can sue me in court for damages related to your visa issuance fees, your decreased ability to get another job (including any decrease in salary between the job you have and the job you get), and punitive damages up to triple the actual damages if my intent was to cause harm and I knew what I was saying was libelous.
Korean libel laws are different because what you say/write does not have to cause an actual monetary loss (there are no actual damages required), and truth is not a defense to libel in the ROK.
I can say Mr. 개수주, owner of 미친개영어학원, touches little girls inappropriately, and I have video evidence via a CCTV feed of him bending a high school girl over the sink in the washroom with an ESSE Light in one hand and a bottle of Charm Soju in the other, and Mr. 개 loses business because of that, he can sue me in court for his loss of business.
That's kinda how it's gonna work. |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Glad to hear he stuck it out and won. He should have a friend in another country set up a website about her. |
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wylies99
Joined: 13 May 2006
Location: I'm one cool cat!
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| Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Why not post this in job discussion? |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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| wylies99 wrote: |
| Why didn't he post it? |
Because Joe thinks, quite correctly, that Dave's is a waste of his time. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Straphanger wrote: |
I can say Mr. 개수주, owner of 미친개영어학원, touches little girls inappropriately, and I have video evidence via a CCTV feed of him bending a high school girl over the sink in the washroom with an ESSE Light in one hand and a bottle of Charm Soju in the other, and Mr. 개 loses business because of that, he can sue me in court for his loss of business.
That's kinda how it's gonna work. |
I think it has something to do with the Korean constitution and a guarentee of each citizen's right to dignity or something. This has been interpreted by the courts as saying you should never say anything bad about another person even if it's true.
Hence, people can be complete and total jack asses in public, throwing dung all over a Lottemart meat counter, and the Korean press will pix out the face. Unless you're a foreigner. |
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blaseblasphemener
Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Location: There's a voice, keeps on calling me, down the road, that's where I'll always be
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| Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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This story reminds me of something Charles Koch, president of Koch Industries, said:
"My father told me never sue. "Son, the lawyers get 30%, the government gets 30%, and you lose your business."
4 mill for 2 years worth of hassle? I could make that in a month at a camp. |
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blaseblasphemener
Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Location: There's a voice, keeps on calling me, down the road, that's where I'll always be
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| Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
| wylies99 wrote: |
| Why didn't he post it? |
Because Joe thinks, quite correctly, that Dave's is a waste of his time. |
I guess you still have to learn that lesson, considering the amount of posting you do, while not even in Korea! |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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| blaseblasphemener wrote: |
This story reminds me of something Charles Koch, president of Koch Industries, said:
"My father told me never sue. "Son, the lawyers get 30%, the government gets 30%, and you lose your business."
4 mill for 2 years worth of hassle? I could make that in a month at a camp. |
I think his lawyer was actually working pro bono. I think he wanted to help establish some case law.
Of course any white person in seoul could quickly earn the lost money with less effort, but then not everyone is as successful as Joe because Joe makes these efforts. |
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Hyeon Een
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Straphanger wrote: |
| Rutherford wrote: |
| Can anyone explain these libel laws? I'd like to know before I go running my mouth. |
U.S. Libel (or slander) laws:
1) Something must be published (slander = spoken) in a public enough manner (not in your diary) that is not true.
2) In order to have a cause of action for libel, the plaintiff needs to prove that they have lost reputation or credibility, and will therefore suffer an economic hardship.
For example: This is an internet forum. While it is not hosted in Korea, it still meets the standards of being public enough for false statements to be libelous. Remember that libelous does not mean inflammatory:
Rutherford's mother sucks diseased horse (shoes) in hell.
That's inflammatory. I can't be sued for writing that. If your name was Jack Offerson, however, and I said this about you:
Jack Offerson is the worst teacher in the industry. He spends half his class time playing hangman and the other half with his cameraphone under the table. I know this because I worked with him at Generic Hakwon X on Ddung-do island.
The following week, your employer tells you that your services are no longer required, and they will not be renewing your contract.
This causes you financial hardship (obviously, you lost your job) and I have committed an act of libel. You can sue me in court for damages related to your visa issuance fees, your decreased ability to get another job (including any decrease in salary between the job you have and the job you get), and punitive damages up to triple the actual damages if my intent was to cause harm and I knew what I was saying was libelous.
Korean libel laws are different because what you say/write does not have to cause an actual monetary loss (there are no actual damages required), and truth is not a defense to libel in the ROK.
I can say Mr. 개수주, owner of 미친개영어학원, touches little girls inappropriately, and I have video evidence via a CCTV feed of him bending a high school girl over the sink in the washroom with an ESSE Light in one hand and a bottle of Charm Soju in the other, and Mr. 개 loses business because of that, he can sue me in court for his loss of business.
That's kinda how it's gonna work. |
To add to this the important difference between Korean and US slander laws is that in Korea it doesn't matter if it's true or not. In the US if I say you murdered someone, and you actually had, I couldn't get in trouble for it. In Korea I could get sued if it damaged the person's reputation in any way by stating a true fact.
If your boss is demonstratably corrupt (paper trail) and you state this publicly you can be sued for slander. It doesn't matter if it's true or not, all that matters is you hurt someones reputation.
The slander laws here are not cool. |
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Straphanger
Joined: 09 Oct 2008
Location: Chilgok, Korea
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| Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Rutherford wrote: |
| Can anyone explain these libel laws? I'd like to know before I go running my mouth. |
Wait, one more thing.
Never, ever, ever, EVAR name a hakwon that has screwed you over on *this* forum. |
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Straphanger
Joined: 09 Oct 2008
Location: Chilgok, Korea
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| Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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| blaseblasphemener wrote: |
This story reminds me of something Charles Koch, president of Koch Industries, said:
"My father told me never sue. "Son, the lawyers get 30%, the government gets 30%, and you lose your business."
4 mill for 2 years worth of hassle? I could make that in a month at a camp. |
No dude, that's cool. As long as you never rock the boat. Never be seen. Never be the piper or pay the piper. Always be meek, never assert yourself. Bow at a 45 degree angle. Never, ever, ever stand up for what is right.
Then you'll never lose. Because you'll never have the opportunity to win.
What you are saying is that those people you're descended from that fought and died to keep this country free should have laid down their arms, should have not fought the war in the first place. Because keeping the peace and getting what you can, while you can, is better than standing up for yourself when you've been shafted.
You are weak. You fail at life. I'm sorry for your family. |
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