Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Whitey Otez]

Here's the layout of the situation:

I'm working for a hogwan (I know, get over it) where I'm the only foreigner. I teach each class only once per week (again, I know, that's not what this is about). With some rearranging of my schedule, the boss has me doing six consecutive classes on Wednesdays in February. I told him on Monday that I was fine with this, except I'd be taking my break time at the end of the day, meaning I'd leave the office early. He said that's impossible, because if he makes a special policy for me, the Korean teachers will want to leave early, too. I told him he was breaking article 53 of the Korean Labor Law, and he told me the KLL was for factory workers, not hogwan teachers. (All background stuff, not the point of this thread's discussion.)

I told him that by his logic, he could hypothetically make me teach ten hours with no break, and make me stay in the office until the time he sees fit. He responded by saying, "You didn't have to teach any winter intensive classes. What are you talking about?"

This got me thinking. A friend of mine who knows the culture inside and out, thinks that it's possible the director doesn't have the capacity to understand hypothetical situations. He is of the more cynical opinion that my boss is just playing dumb in order to get what he wants without compromise. Yet he also conceded that most Koreans are completely obtuse about theoretical situations, and starting sentences with a conditional such as "if" will set their minds into immediate rebellion.

Another Korean friend, a very conservative guy, told me once that he thought I was the greatest guy he knew, yet he would have to protest vehemently if I wanted to date his cousin (I didn't want to date his cousin) because I am not Korean. I told him by the same token that I'd protest him dating my sister because personally, he's an a-hole. His response was, "Hey, I'm married."

So he was able to lay out a hypothetical situation, but not respond to one.

My question for discussion, then, is have any of you met a non-native speaker, Korean or otherwise, who was able to respond to a hypothetical or conditional statement? I'd also be amused by your own anecdotes about someone completely missing the point.

[Struessel]

How good is your Korean / your bosses and friend's English? Talking about hypotheticals is a fairly complicated language structure, so maybe that is the source of misunderstanding.

For winter camp with my top set of students we focused on conditional and hypothetical structures. They had no problems with the concepts (but still terrible grammar, sigh).

I think your boss was likely being stubborn and playing dumb to get his way, as you suggest. And your friend was maybe making a joke that you didn't get.

[billybrobby]

I'd like to nominate this for the hypothetical Stupidest Idea of the Month Award.

[Whitey Otez]

Stru - I get jokes. My friend was a translator for the army for several years, his Korean is at a native level. He wasn't kidding.

BillyRobby - Thanks for your wonderful contribution.

[Captain Corea]

I've met many Koreans who can give and respond to hypothetical questions.

[santafly]

Whenever I start a sentence with "if" my students immediatley interrupt me to answer the question - depsite the fact that I am not asking a question and repeatedly remind them of this.

There are many languages in which hypothetical situations are not possible - but I don' speak korean/don't know

I was taking to a guy I work with last night who has been in Korea for 8 years - he was describing the same situation with a long shift and no break - which a teacher reported some major chain hagwon to the labor board for - they got in a bunch of trouble, the hagwon - it is against the law - according to my coworker

[Cheonmunka]

One of the easiest words in Korean that sits at the beginning of the sentence, is 만약. It fits exactly with 'if.' Hypothetical situations are not so difficult in Korean. The end will often incorporate a simple indirect tense. A decent learner/user of English will realize hypothetical statements.
But, it's the statements themselves that lend to showing not so much cultural barriers/differences but who your friends are. Your friend about your cousin was not sensitive to you feeling like a foreigner in the land.
I think sometimes comments made usually hypothetically need to be just made directly in Korean life.

[Rum Jungle]

[yoja]

OP, I think you're missing a key point here, and that is that two people can play the "I'm so stupid...I just can't understand...it must just be a miscommunication" card.

My first year here, I met the awesomest native teacher. She was kyopo and her Korean was perfect, but she never let on. She always acted like she just couldn't understand a damn word of anything they told her, English or Korean. Every day she left school whenever she pleased. The first week or two, they would call her into the office the next day and try to explain that she had to stay until 4 pm every day, and every day she would put on this big act of ohhh, I think I just misunderstood, I thought it would be okay just for yesterday, because I had finished my classes for the day and I needed to go to <the doctor/dentist/bank/immigration office/etc.>. When they tried to pull out the contract, she played hardball. "Oh, is there some problem with my teaching?" Whatever the response was, she would always make sure to point out, "Oh, but I am an excellent teacher and the students and parents are happy with me and my classes. So I have fulfilled my responsibilities as a teacher." After a full week or two of this, they finally gave up and just turned a blind eye and she was allowed to do whatever she wanted. It was awesome.

I realize that there is a limit to this kind of behavior, and I'm not suggesting that it will go over without consequence at every workplace, but having said that...I've used this same tactic from time to time and never had any long-term repercussions. You just have to figure out for yourself when it's okay to push and when you need to pull with the team. Anyway...I'm just sayin'. Make this culture work to your advantage, just like the natives do. Smile and always be respectful and say "yes, master" and then do what you want.

Good luck.

[NightSky]

it is partly a communication thing, it's not as if koreans can't understand hypothetical situations but they definitely have a resistance to new and unusual suggestions. many of them tend to see everything as a one-way street and have difficulties looking off to the side. the culture encourages this. so it's not a black-or-white thing and certainly educated Koreans have the ability to ponder hypothetical situations, but I get what the OP is trying to say.

[vampirepirate01]

Sarcasam , also does not exactly flow well in conversations with non-native speakers of English. I once took about 30 mintues to explain a five second joke.