Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Ya-ta Boy]

�I think putting in a lot of effort should merit a high grade,�... �What else is there really than the effort that you put in?�

�If you put in all the effort you have and get a C, what is the point?� he added. �If someone goes to every class and reads every chapter in the book and does everything the teacher asks of them and more, then they should be getting an A like their effort deserves. If your maximum effort can only be average in a teacher�s mind, then something is wrong.�

Another student: �I feel that if I do all of the readings and attend class regularly that I should be able to achieve a grade of at least a B.�

Does this sound familiar? Every grading season we get threads about students complaining about their grade and about how they feel entitled to a high grade just for showing up. It seems this is not a phenomenon unique to Korea. It looks more like a generational thing.

Read about it here: Student Expectations Seen as Causing Grade Disputes

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/18/education/18college.html?_r=3&ref=todayspaper

[Ya-ta Boy]

Here's an opinion piece in reaction to the original article.

"Sweet Jesus, where did such dizzying nonsense come from? Sure, it's easy to blame today's youth for being whiny, spoiled, and entitled."

http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_plank/archive/2009/02/18/an-a-for-effort-talk-about-a-lousy-idea.aspx

[Mr. Pink]

The sense of entitlement in today's youth extends to a lot of those who read this board...a lot of those in their early 20s are really no different than those in the article or those still in high school.

Effort cannot be measured in of itself. It is measured by the actual work done. If you are stupid and do a ton of effort, congratulations, that C or B you got is a lot better than the F, D or C you might have got without any effort.

Should those who are above average intelligence who don't need to put in a lot of effort in regards to their work receive a lesser grade due to lesser effort? I think not.

In the real world, it doesn't matter how much effort you put in - if you cannot do the job to the expected standard or higher, it is time to move on.

Should that med school student get an A for effort, then when they are operating on you, even though they put in a ton of effort, you end up dying. Yeah that is the type of youth I surely want running my society.

It is time to do away with this sense of entitlement and coddling that is going on today. Western society is going to go to shit if it continues.

[Ya-ta Boy]

[asams]

[bassexpander]

The title is flawed.

In my experience, it's: "I did all of the work, I deserve an A+"

[Scotticus]

[berrieh]

[sarbonn]

There's no need to condemn a generation for a problem that was caused by arbitrary standards that have made it very difficult for a student to ascertain a grade that will be given. In much earlier years, getting a B or C wasn't really the end of the world, and it was awarded as an "average" or "above average" grade. Things have really changed. Grade point averages aren't even scaled on a 0 to 4.0 anymore, as you're finding students getting into college with 4.61 grade point averages because schools have completely changed the grading scales.

This led to a grade inflation problem because in some classes there are very specific guidelines set up, such as 700-800 points = A, 600-699 points = B, etc. Then, you go to another course where the professor arbitrarily decides what you're going to get based on how he or she feels he should grade you. This used to drive me nuts in grad school because in order to even stay in grad school, you have to maintain a 3.0 grade point average, or you were kicked out. That meant you had to be pulling B's in everything. For the Ph.d program I completed, you had to be pulling in a 3.25 or you were put on probation (which was short hand for, you were getting kicked out next semester). I had one professor who I ended up pissing off once because we were discussing teaching ethics, and I made a stance where I indicated that a teacher should never be sleeping with one of his students. Didn't even realize why the professor was so interested in why I was adamant about this until after class when ANOTHER teacher told me that this professor was probably interested in my response because ten years ago that professor had been through a scandal of dating one of his students and getting her pregnant. Had a straight A grade, and then out of the blue got a B+ from that student-dating dick. That's arbitrary, and that's why students get all upset about these sorts of grading processes.

Where it becomes a problem is that no two classrooms are on an equal footing, so what grades you get has more bearing on who taught it than on what was taught or how much work was done. And as long as there's no standardization amongst classes, this controversy is going to continue to be a problem.

[Leslie Cheswyck]

Leslie: Kid, you're a loser. This grade reflects that. I'm actually doing you a favor by letting you know that you suck now so that, when you get out there in the real world, the revelation of your suckiness won't come as a life shattering shock to you. Now here's what you can do next semester so you can improve your...

School Admin: Ahem, Mr. Cheswyck, a moment please... [exchanged whispers in the corner]

Leslie: Kid, you get an A+! I know it was tough for you and, though I couldn't see it, you worked hard. Must be a cultural thing, ha ha. What is this Western hangup about plagiarism anyway. Go! The world is waiting for you. And here's a pack of Huggies, cause I'm through wiping your ass.

[Pa Jan Jo A Hamnida]

Absolutely!

[Pa Jan Jo A Hamnida]

A bitter truth is still truth.

[Milwaukiedave]

I think what Ya-ta Boy is saying also goes for university students as well. At the end of Fall term I had several emails from students who were shocked they didn't recieve a higher grade. My response: you got the grade you earned.