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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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 Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 11:24 am Post subject: To Legalize and Tax Marijuana? |
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http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1510744/to_legalize_and_tax_marijuana.html
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California Pot Proposal Gains Traction
Will the California budget crisis accomplish the long cherished goal among libertarians of legalizing marijuana? San Francisco Assemblyman Tom Ammiano certainly hopes so, for he has offered legislation legalizing and taxing marijuana.
Under the proposed legislation, every Californian over the age of 21 would be able to openly purchase marijuana after paying a hefty tax. The tax would consist of a special fifty dollar an ounce levy along with the normal state sales taxes. It is estimated that legally sold and taxed
To Legalize and Tax Marijuana?
marijuana would bring in $1.3 billion in revenues to the state of California.
According to a Zogby Poll commissioned by the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws (NORML) a growing number of people support the legalization and taxing of marijuana.
"When asked: "Should marijuana be taxed and legally regulated like alcohol and cigarettes to help raise money for public services and to reduce law enforcement costs?", voters responded: 44% Yes, 52% No, and 4% Undecided.
"Surprisingly high support was reported in the West, where voters favored legalization 58% - 36%. However, the significance of this margin is questionable due to the relatively small number of respondents (232). Easterners were nearly divided - 48% Yes, 49% No - while other regions were strongly opposed.
"A similar Zogby/NORML poll in 2006 found only 36% of Americans in support of legalization, with 55% opposed."
Libertarians and even some conservatives have maintained that the current regime of criminalizing drug abuse is counterproductive and futile. Drug legalization advocates compare the current "war on drugs" to the 1920s era prohibition, during which alcohol was banned, leading to wide spread law breaking by ordinary people and the rise of organized crime. They suggest, for instance, that marijuana is a relatively benign recreational narcotic, compared to alcohol and especially tobacco. Marijuana also has some beneficial medical properties, such as glaucoma and the pain and nausea surrounding chemotherapy. |
I do hope that the drug war, or portions of, are a victim of this depression. Governments need revenue and need to cut costs. Tax pot and let the drug prisoners free. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Agreed. I doubt this bill will be passed though, especially since it is from an assemblyman from "wacky" SF and all. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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U.S. to yield marijuana jurisdiction to states
(02-26) 20:00 PST San Francisco -- U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder is sending strong signals that President Obama - who as a candidate said states should be allowed to make their own rules on medical marijuana - will end raids on pot dispensaries in California.
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http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2009/02/27/MN2016651R.DTL
I've always seen the push for medical pot as a way to wedge full decriminalization. It will take time, and the first step is allowing states to be independent.
My interest in American drug laws isn't because I feel particularly sympathetic to America drug prisoners, but that Canada has long struggled with the desire to decriminalize and the reality of an America who would slow trade if we did so. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 11:48 pm Post subject: |
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I've always seen the push for medical pot as a way to wedge full decriminalization. It will take time, and the first step is allowing states to be independent.
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Thomas Szasz, who is a firebrand advocate of total legalization, has argued against the medical-marijuana movement, on the grounds that it assumes physicians have some sort of divine competence to decide who should and should not take certain drugs. By saying that the doctor has a right to prescribe weed for X, you are implicitly endorsing his right to deny weed to Y.
link |
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wesharris
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 3:25 am Post subject: |
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I'm all for it.
It'll keep the hippies in line, and high.
Damned hippies.
Tax the weed.
Give the money to the poor.
_+_
Wes |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 8:21 am Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
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I've always seen the push for medical pot as a way to wedge full decriminalization. It will take time, and the first step is allowing states to be independent.
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Thomas Szasz, who is a firebrand advocate of total legalization, has argued against the medical-marijuana movement, on the grounds that it assumes physicians have some sort of divine competence to decide who should and should not take certain drugs. By saying that the doctor has a right to prescribe weed for X, you are implicitly endorsing his right to deny weed to Y.
link |
He is excellent on the DSM too.
I understand his libertarian position, but provided all doctors are not government employees (sorry, Canada) you can just cross the street to the competition and get it. Like middle class junkies do with oxy, vics etc. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 9:07 am Post subject: |
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Its heartening to see the US return to Federalism after an 80-year hiatus.
Ironically, allowing the States to decide this for themselves might be considered a conservative position (see Justices O'Connor's and Thomas' dissent in Gonzales v. Raich). However, I have a feeling most of the states that will allow medical marijuana will be the affluent leftie ones (Mass, Cali). |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 9:44 am Post subject: |
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| I understand his libertarian position, but provided all doctors are not government employees (sorry, Canada) you can just cross the street to the competition and get it. Like middle class junkies do with oxy, vics etc. |
Well yeah, but then Szasz is of the opinion that no doctor anywhere should have any say over who can and cannot buy any drug. And he includes medical pharmaceuticals in that. (I assume that under his proposed scheme, a prescription would be reduced to the status of an advised dosage). |
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Hater Depot
Joined: 29 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 9:47 am Post subject: |
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| The problem is that decriminalization or legalization will have to be done nationwide to avoid the problem of people coming from Nevada, Oregon, etc. just to smoke pot. Some of them will cause trouble, it will be overblown in the media, and decriminalization will lose its popularity. This could potentially set the movement back 20 years. |
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MothraAttack
Joined: 20 Jan 2009
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| Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 11:11 am Post subject: |
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I don't think it's possible to lose too much popularity at this point. Even weed tourists would provide economic stimulus, and that's something people are generally pretty happy about. Look at the Oaksterdam University in Oakland or how 60% of Mendocino County's economy is hinged on marijuana according to CNBC and it's evident that medical marijuana itself is a cash crop.
The real problem is its criminality on the federal level. While cities like Denver, Austin and San Francisco have essentially decriminalized small amounts of possession and SB 420 is practically decriminalization in Cali (someone told me you can walk around Venice Beach or the Mission District smoking a joint and you'd be fine), the feds still raid crops and stores which are nominally legal under local law. Until federal legislation or intervention alters the role of the DEA legalization can't be a reality. |
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Chuvok
Joined: 25 Jan 2009
Location: Russia
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| Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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As someone who has never used marijuana (or any other illegal drug), I think it is class A stupidity to legalise usage.
Marijuana makes people lazy and lethargic!
Do you want a society of useless idiots who'd rather sit at home "toking" instead of doing something with their lives?
There are a lot of people who don't "use" because it is illegal. Those same people probably would try it if it were made legal and the number of useless pot-heads would go up.
I agree, it sucks for young people to have a criminal record because of a marijuana bust, but that's the law the USA has. Decriminalisation, and imposition of harsh civil penalties would be a good idea. Like 500 hours of community service for getting busted. Or, revocation of driving privileges for 5 years. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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so chuvok, why not ban alcohol too? It
1. Makes some people angry and abusive
2. Destroys the liver
3. Physically addictive |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm always surprised when I come across an individual who still opposes normalization of pot. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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| I think Gopher called it correctly. Chuvok=EFLT |
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MothraAttack
Joined: 20 Jan 2009
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| Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Chuvok wrote: |
As someone who has never used marijuana (or any other illegal drug), I think it is class A stupidity to legalise usage.
Marijuana makes people lazy and lethargic!
Do you want a society of useless idiots who'd rather sit at home "toking" instead of doing something with their lives? |
Glad we've got your expert opinion.
| Carl Sagan wrote: |
| I can remember one occasion, taking a shower with my wife while high, in which I had an idea on the origins and invalidities of racism in terms of gaussian distribution curves. I wrote the curves in soap on the shower wall, and went to write the idea down. |
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