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A logical point we all forget
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samcheokguy



Joined: 02 Nov 2008
Location: Samcheok G-do

PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 1:52 am    Post subject: A logical point we all forget Reply with quote

Remember you can not say
x happens in korea
x happens in other countries
therefore korea has no worse problems with x than any other country

Let's take an example

Paris has smelly sewers
Korea has smelly sewers
therefore Korea and Paris are both smelly places.

Yet, I've lived in Paris, and Korea. I had to go way out of my way to find the smelly sewers in Paris, as in a tour. In Korea, you just go outside.

People in america pee in the woods outside
People in Korean pee outside
Therefore public urination is the same in Korea and the US

I watched a principal at a school I worked at, whip it out on a street corner, and pee in front of two MIDDLE SCHOOL GIRLS. This would have you placed on a sex-offender list in many states in the US.

People get drunk and puke in america
People get drunk and puke in Korea
Therefore they are the same

I attended a party school. The University of Delaware is a wild, crazy school with 3 day weekends every week. I saw vomit, sometimes, under a tree, or in some bushes, or maybe in a trash can. The bathroom at a 24 hour diner in newark was cleaner than the street in my town of 70,000 on sunday morning. Orange puke stains the street like landmines left over from some war on vomit.

Korean women produce milk for their babies.
Cows produce milk for their babies.
Korean Women are the same as cows!

Seriously a lot of the 'logic' used to defend (and somtimes attack) Korea is so bad I wonder what is going on here... Rolling Eyes
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Chuvok



Joined: 25 Jan 2009
Location: Russia

PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 2:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the fact you have a 'Russia' avatar.


But other than that, I think you are a bigot, and should go home and live in sparkling america.


Rolling Eyes
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michaelambling



Joined: 31 Dec 2008
Location: Paradise

PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 2:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syllogism
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Alyssa



Joined: 15 Jan 2006

PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 2:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chuvok wrote:
I like the fact you have a 'Russia' avatar.


But other than that, I think you are a bigot, and should go home and live in sparkling america.


Rolling Eyes





A bigot??? just because he tells the truth? You sound like you have
a huge problem, or rose colored glasses. grow up Embarassed
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lifeinkorea



Joined: 24 Jan 2009
Location: somewhere in China

PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 2:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Next time I pee in the woods, I will remember this thread.
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poet13



Joined: 22 Jan 2006
Location: Just over there....throwing lemons.

PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Next time I pee in the woods, I'm going to smell it. Then the next time I pee in front of middle school girls, I'm going to smell it again, and see if they're the same.
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PeteJB



Joined: 06 Jul 2007

PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LOL @ the milk one.
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Scotticus



Joined: 18 Mar 2007

PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 4:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chuvok wrote:

But other than that, I think you are a bigot, and should go home and live in sparkling america.


Outside of tossing out accusations, what portion of his post doesn't make sense? It's easy to say "you're a racist," yet I fail to see you pointing out what is actually bigoted about it.
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T-J



Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul EunpyungGu Yeonsinnae

PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 5:31 am    Post subject: Re: A logical point we all forget Reply with quote

samcheokguy wrote:

Remember you can not say
x happens in korea
x happens in other countries
therefore korea has no worse problems with x than any other country


I'll agree that this is a weak argument for justifying or rationalizing things that are screwed up in Korea. I will say there are things in Korea that run the full spectrum from fantastic to down right shitty.

For people to try to excuse the things that are crappy here by saying that the same conditions exist elsewhere is self depreciating.

The real reason that some stay here happily for a long time is quite simply the perception that the good outweighs the bad. This is true anywhere.

I can understand people who do not have the same perception of the pros and cons of living and working in Korea. Much the same as I can understand one person loving living in L.A. or London and loving it, while another person might hate it. Same city, same people, same environment, different perceptions.

What I have never been able to understand is the people that bitch and complain about the same things year after year as they extend their contracts or move from job to job in Korea. I don't want to use the tired line of "If you don't like it why don't you leave?", but I have to ask. If it is so bad why do you stay?

If living in N.Y.C. or Houston just drove me up the wall because of this or that, and I think there are plenty of things in both those locations that would, I would get the hell out of there. Better yet, I've got the forsight to never move there in the first place.

So, I agree with the OP. It is a weak argument to justify things that are negative about living here. For some the positives make it worth while and even blind us to some extent to their existance.

We also refrain from saying:

x happens in korea
x doesn't happen in other countries
therefore korea has worse problems with x than any other country
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T-J



Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul EunpyungGu Yeonsinnae

PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 5:39 am    Post subject: Re: A logical point we all forget Reply with quote

How the F*%K can I double post eight minutes apart?

I'll tell you Dave's server sucks hind teat, that's how!


Last edited by T-J on Wed Mar 04, 2009 5:52 am; edited 1 time in total
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Goku



Joined: 10 Dec 2008

PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 5:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

While agree all these examples are invalid, it's for different reasons


I'll use your example

Quote:
Paris has smelly sewers
Korea has smelly sewers
therefore Korea and Paris are both smelly places.


The conclusion is invalid because the premises don't follow from the conclusion at all. The correct conclusion is that Paris and Korea both have smelly sewers.

They are both smelly places? one would have to add the premise that having smelly sewers means they are smelly places.

Quote:
People in america pee in the woods outside
People in Korean pee outside
Therefore public urination is the same in Korea and the US


Again, there is an underlying premise that peeing outside in the woods is the same as peeing outside. It's not stated and therefore invalid. I don't think anyone follows this pattern of logic... or would hope not.


Quote:
People get drunk and puke in america
People get drunk and puke in Korea
Therefore they are the same


Again, the correct conclusion for this would be, both places people get drunk and puke. Invalid conclusion based on the premises.

Quote:
Korean women produce milk for their babies.
Cows produce milk for their babies.
Korean Women are the same as cows!


Again another conclusion that barely fits the premises. However, it is a valid half-statement. The conclusion that Korean Women are the same as cows is partially true in that the inference is in producing milk. Korean are not similar to cows in appearance or any other feature, but the conclusion implies such by being non-specific.


I hope no one is using the type of logic to "defend" or attack Korea.
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Ilsanman



Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Location: Bucheon, Korea

PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 5:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1. Public urination happens in Korea,
2. Public urination also happens in America.
3. Public Urination happens much more often in Korea than America.

What's the conclusion now?
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poet13



Joined: 22 Jan 2006
Location: Just over there....throwing lemons.

PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Americans don't pee enough?
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Captain Corea



Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone who has lived near, or worked in a club in N America knows that urine, blood, puke and other bodily fluids are not saved to be done away with in the forest.

There's a shit load of nasty stuff in and around club in NA.

Part of the issue in Korea is zoning. The fact that there are drinking establishments right next to ... everything.

If all the drinking places were rounded up and taken out of the residential areas, I have no doubt that the complaints about vomit and such would fall massively.
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Ilsanman



Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Location: Bucheon, Korea

PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't forget the sheer number of bars. A lot of places where I am from double as a restaurant (with proper meals) and have an attached bar. Most of them never get really busy, but occasionally.

Zoning is certainly an issue. What gets me is 'massage' places in the same building as kiddie hagwons.

Captain Corea wrote:
Anyone who has lived near, or worked in a club in N America knows that urine, blood, puke and other bodily fluids are not saved to be done away with in the forest.

There's a shit load of nasty stuff in and around club in NA.

Part of the issue in Korea is zoning. The fact that there are drinking establishments right next to ... everything.

If all the drinking places were rounded up and taken out of the residential areas, I have no doubt that the complaints about vomit and such would fall massively.
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