Korean Job Discussion Forums

[chilgok007]

I posted this on another thread, but figured it must have been buried too deep. Certainly, someone here has the skills to answer it...

I've been studying the following form:

Verb Modifier + 일이 있다/없다 -> have been/hasn't been (I think it's the Korean equivalent of the present perfect tense in English...though given the subtilty and complexity of this language, I would be suprised if it wasn't).

Here are my questions:

1) What's the difference between this form and "아/어 봤다 (To have the experience of doing...)? To me they seem pretty much interchangable. Am I correct in this assumption? Are there certain cases where you only use the former and some where you only use the latter?

2) What's the difference between:

-나는 남부에 가본 일이 있다. (I have been to the south).
-나는 나부에 가 봤다.
-나는 남부에 갔는 일이 있다.

3) Why, in the above examples, does the sentance use "본"? I thought you were supposed to use "았/었는" with action verbs. Furthermore, I thought "verb + 은" was only used with descriptive verbs. In the above examples, is this not, as I assume it to be, the verb "보다 (as in, "to see")"?

4) What if I wanted to say: I have eaten Kimchi? Would "김치를 먹어 본 일이 있다" be correct, or should I use a different Verb modifier with "먹다," like "던"?[[/b]

[gang ah jee]

나는 남부에 가본 일이 있다 - I reckon this is like 'I have had the occasion of ... '. I've read this pattern in books but can't recall ever actually hearing it. You should use 'jeok' instead of 일.
나는 나부에 가 봤다 - went to, tried to go, had a look, been to, etc, heavily dependent on context.
나는 남부에 갔는 일이 있다. - this is ungrammatical. You need to use a past rather than present modifier on 가.

but my grammar's pretty crap, so I don't know.

[chilgok007]

Thanks for the answer. I'm still not that deep into my studies, but I've never heard of "Jeok." Is it spelled: "적?" Can you give me an example sentance ?

But, I'm still frustrated!!! Is there any real difference between "일이 있다" (or "Jeok") and "아/어 보다"?

[chilgok007]

[gang ah jee]

[chilgok007]

[Qinella]

I fouled up your other thread with a lame attempt at a joke, so I'll make penance here by offering some words of wisdom from Ross King et al.

________________________

The nounds 일 and 적 both mean event, act, experience. The phrases 일이 있어요 and 적이 있어요 mean the event or experience exists. The phrases 일이 없어요 and 적이 없어요 mean the event or experience does not exist.

With modifiers from processive verbs, there are four uses to which you can put these expressions.

Postmodifier Clauses Using -(으)ㄴ for Past Tense

In combination with -(으)ㄴ, one gets a pattern than denotes has had the experience, has (ever) done something. This pattern is particularly compatible with the Exploratory Pattern in -어 보-, and almost always occurs in combination with it: -어 본 일(이) 있-/없-, -어 본 적(이) 있-/없-.

A. -(으)ㄴ일이 있어요, -(으)ㄴ 적이 있어요
has ever done

한국에 가 본 적이 있어요?
Have you ever gone/been to Korea?
[Literally: Does having-gone-to-Korea exist? or
Is there such a thing as (your) having gone to Korea? or
Has it ever happened that you went to Korea?]

Note that in this pattern it is usual to use the auxiliary 봐요, so the idea of having done something for the experience--in order to try it or check it out--is incorporated.

네, 한국에 가 본 적이 있어요.
Yes, I've been to Korea.


B. -(으)ㄴ 일이 없어요, -(으)ㄴ 적이 없어요
has never done

한국에 가 본 일이 없어요?
Haven't you ever been to Korea?
[Literally: Does having-gone-to-Korea not exist? or
Isn't there such a thing as (your) having gone to Korea? or
Hasn't it ever happened that you went to Korea?]

한국에 가 본 일이 없어요.
I've never been to Korea.


Postmodifier Clauses using -는 for Non-Past Tense

In combination with -는, one gets a pattern that denotes sometimes ("ever") has the experience, sometimes/occasionally ("ever") does something: -는 일(이) 있-/없-, -는 적(이) 있-, 없-.

-는 일이 있어요, -는 적이 있어요
ever does; sometimes does

혼자서 극장에 가는 일이 있어요?
Do you ever go to the theater by yourself?
[Literally: Do events of going by yourself exist? Does it ever happen that you go the theater by yourself?]

혼자서 극장에 가는 일이 있어요.
I sometimes go to the theater by myself.
[Literally: Events of going to the theater by myself exist. It (sometimes) happens that I go to the theater by myself.]


-는 일이 없어요, -는 적이 없어요
never does

혼자서 극장에 가는 일이 없어요?
Don't you ever go to the theater by yourself?


혼자서 극장에 가는 일이 없어요.
I never go to the theater by myself.


Notice that 있어요 and 없어요 are kept constant through these expressions, letting the time be expressed in the modifiers. But you can change the tense of the final verba nd get expressions like these:

본 일이 있었어요 had (once) seen

본 일이 없었어요 had never seen

보는 일이 있었어요 would occasionally see, had been seeing (at times)

보는 일이 없었어요 never used to see, hadn't been seeing (ever)

And you can use the future-presumptive form in -겠-, especially with tentative meaning.

그런 것을 본 일이 없겠지요.
I don't suppose you've ever seen such a thing.


More examples:

우리 남편은 한번도 병이 난 일이 없어요.
My husband has never once been sick

소주를 마셔 본 적이 있어요?
Have you ever tried [drinking] soju?

그 대학에서 공부한 일이 있어요.
I've studied at that college.

중국 음식을 먹어 본 적이 없어요?
Haven't you ever tried Chinese food?


________________________



If you found that helpful, I recommend buying the book Continuing Korean by Ross King and Jae-Hoon Yeon. Last time I went to the Band & Luni bookstore in 종각 station (exit 2) they had a few copies for around 6만원. Very reasonable price, awesome book.

I'm not sure if the quoted text answers all of your questions though, so let me add two things:

1. People usually say 적 instead of 일.

2. The use of 본 implies that you were trying something (Exploratory Pattern) such as, as you said above, 해 보다. So 본 적이 있다 implies that you have tried, whereas 적이 있다 means have done. From what I gather, 본 is usually added, probably having something to do with the softness of spoken Korean.

Q.

[out of context]

People have already mentioned the "experimental" nature of using 보다. Most of the time when I hear ~적이 있다 or ~일이 있다, there's a 보다 in there as well: 보신탕을 먹어 본 적이 있어.

If you say 보신탕을 먹어 봤어, the difference is similar to the difference between the simple past and present perfect in English: the simple past (먹어 봤어) suggests a particular point in time (for example, 지난 주에 보신탕을 먹어 봤어), while the present perfect (먹어 본 적이 있어) simply states that the experience happened at some unspecified time before the present. What's important is not when it happened, just that the experience has been registered.

And as was already stated, -었는 일/적 is ungrammatical...you should say X한 일, not X했는 일. Only a few expressions take the form -었는; -었는데 and -었는지 are the only ones I can think of off the top of my head. I'm fairly sure there a few more, but this isn't one of them.

[flotsam]

Please correct the title of this thread.

[Qinella]

[gang ah jee]

[billybrobby]

[flotsam]

[chilgok007]

[chilgok007]

Another question: how does one express the habitual past? As in, "I used to..."

I know the verb modifier "던" can be used, but I've usually seen it embedded in a relative clause (example: "나는 다니던 하교..." (The school I used to attend)" Or "아이들 놀던 곳... ( "the place where children used to play...)". But how would one say: "I used to attend that school" or "Children used to play at that place?"