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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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 Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:22 am Post subject: Harper: we are not ever going to defeat the insurgency |
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http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/archives/2009/03/harper_we_are_not_ever_going_to_defeat_the_insurgency_in_afghanistan.php
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ZAKARIA: But it sounds like there is very little support in Canada for an extension of Canada�s mission, which expires in 2012, am I right?
HARPER: Yes. It expires at the end of 2011. The issue in Canada, Fareed, I don�t think is whether we stay or whether we go. The issue that Canadians ask is, are we being successful? And�
ZAKARIA: �what�s your answer to that right now?
HARPER: Right now, we have made gains. Those gains are not irreversible, so the success has been modest.
ZAKARIA: So then, why leave?
HARPER: We�re not going to win this war just be staying. We�re not going to � in fact, my own judgment, Fareed, is, quite frankly, we are not ever going to defeat the insurgency. Afghanistan has probably had � my reading of Afghanistan history, it�s probably had an insurgency forever, of some kind. |
A video of the interview is in the link.
Damn right. Canada needs out of that backwards graveyard asap. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 9:01 am Post subject: |
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Obama has already scaled back the measures of success there.
Lets see how we do in Afghanistan without trying to win the drug war, the hearts and minds, and democracy. My bet is that we can keep it from becoming a terrorist haven. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 9:06 am Post subject: |
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It is a terrorist paradise.
If they mess with us, carpet bomb them Dresden style. None of this state building shit. We in the West have interests, and these are not served by pretending that backwards people in bizarre parts of the world can deal with the concept of a European-style state. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 9:09 am Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
It is a terrorist paradise.
If they mess with us, carpet bomb them Dresden style. None of this state building shit. We in the West have interests, and these are not served by pretending that backwards people in bizarre parts of the world can deal with the concept of a European-style state. |
Anyway, if you looked at the article, you'd see U.S. policy is no longer to build a Western democracy, and some Afghanis are pissed about this change. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 9:16 am Post subject: |
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| Yeah, I saw that. The goalposts have been moved. Now just remove them and leave. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 10:38 am Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| Yeah, I saw that. The goalposts have been moved. Now just remove them and leave. |
I wouldn't hold it against Canada if it left. But the United States has a real reason to be there.
Sorry, Pashtuns. You're only a plurality racial group anyway, though. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 10:44 am Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
...the United States has a real reason to be there.
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What is the reason?? |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 11:57 am Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
...the United States has a real reason to be there.
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What is the reason?? |
Google Sept. 11th, 2001. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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| It seems the CIA is, like me, more than a tad worried that "British" Pakistanis will try to stage another muclim mega-attack on American soil. Will we then seek regime change in the UK? The UK is one of the leading producers of islamists in the world, and frankly harbors and gives support to those who support terrorists and potential terrorists alike. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| It seems the CIA is, like me, more than a tad worried that "British" Pakistanis will try to stage another muclim mega-attack on American soil. Will we then seek regime change in the UK? The UK is one of the leading producers of islamists in the world, and frankly harbors and gives support to those who support terrorists and potential terrorists alike. |
You can make a better case than this. Try again.
I'd rather have a worthy discussion than do a lengthy compare and contrast between Her Majesty's Government 2009 versus the Taliban 2001.
Note also that I'm not advocating embarking on any new regime change. I'm advocating staying after the mission has been refined. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Meh. We're not going to agree. |
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canuckistan
Mod Team
Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Location: Training future GS competitors.....
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| Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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Good luck trying to match or even outspend the bad guys on the-drugs-proceeds-used-for-weapons-and-warlord-payoffs!
Curtail the opium=curtail their river of cash and influence.
Anything less is a waste of time & lives.
Just ask the British and the Russians. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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We must maintain a presence in the Middle East -- in Afghanistan and Pakistan, in the Gulf, in Iraq, and in the eastern Med, especially Israel/Palestine/Jerusalem -- until things settle. Our interests, Western-European interests, and now Russian interests are at play here. Iran wants to destabilize this and redefine the region in its image. So does an array of other-than-Iranian Islamic fundamentalist/terrorist interests, from Pakistan to southern Lebanon to Gaza. This also threatens other regional governments and actors and their interests, Jordan and Saudi Arabia, for example.
It remains a complex mix. We need to work closer with our Western-European allies and Russia. I believe the Obama administration understands and is committed to this. We would err if we ran from Afghanistan now. Canada, as part of the alliance, remains helpful but not in any way decisive. In any case, no matter what the Canadian govt does, it seems clear that the Obama administration remains committed to the war here, as it should, and we can in fact continue with or without Canada.
I heard a recent briefing on CSPAN. The briefer said the intel showed that bin Laden's people were looking to execute another 9/11-style event. If they succeeded, I imagine this would profoundly change things. |
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blade
Joined: 30 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
It is a terrorist paradise.
If they mess with us, carpet bomb them Dresden style. None of this state building shit. We in the West have interests, and these are not served by pretending that backwards people in bizarre parts of the world can deal with the concept of a European-style state. |
So much for our western values  |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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| so blade. what do you propose instead? |
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