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Sam Harris on the Reality of Islam
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mises

Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired

Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 8:58 am Post subject: Sam Harris on the Reality of Islam

I'll get into the new thread trend too:

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20060207_reality_islam/

Quote:

In recent days, crowds of thousands have gathered throughout the Muslim world�burning European embassies, issuing threats, and even taking hostages�in protest over 12 cartoons depicting the Prophet Muhammad that were first published in a Danish newspaper last September. The problem is not merely that the cartoons were mildly derogatory. The furor primarily erupted over the fact that the Prophet had been depicted at all. Many Muslims consider any physical rendering of Muhammad to be an act of idolatry. And idolatry is punishable by death. Criticism of Muhammad or his teaching�which was also implicit in the cartoons�is considered blasphemy. As it turns out, blasphemy is also punishable by death. So pious Muslims have two reasons to �not accept less than a severing of the heads of those responsible,� as was recently elucidated by a preacher at the Al Omari mosque in Gaza.

The religious hysteria has not been confined to the �extremists� of the Muslim world. Seventeen Arab governments issued a joint statement of protest, calling for the punishment of those responsible. Pakistan�s parliament unanimously condemned the drawings as a �vicious, outrageous and provocative campaign� that has �hurt the faith and feelings of Muslims all over the world.� Turkey�s prime minister, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, while still seeking his nation�s entry into the European Union, nevertheless declared that the cartoons were an attack upon the �spiritual values� of Muslims everywhere. The leader of Lebanon�s governing Hezbollah faction observed that the whole episode could have been avoided if only the novelist Salman Rushdie had been properly slaughtered for writing �The Satanic Verses.�

Let us take stock of the moral intuitions now on display in the House of Islam: On Aug. 17, 2005, an Iraqi insurgent helped collect the injured survivors of a car bombing, rushed them to a hospital and then detonated his own bomb, murdering those who were already mortally wounded as well as the doctors and nurses struggling to save their lives. Where were the cries of outrage from the Muslim world? Religious sociopaths kill innocents by the hundreds in the capitols of Europe, blow up the offices of the U.N. and the Red Cross, purposefully annihilate crowds of children gathered to collect candy from U.S. soldiers on the streets of Baghdad, kidnap journalists, behead them, and the videos of their butchery become the most popular form of pornography in the Muslim world, and no one utters a word of protest because these atrocities have been perpetrated �in defense of Islam.� But draw a picture of the Prophet, and pious mobs convulse with pious rage. One could hardly ask for a better example of religious dogmatism and its pseudo-morality eclipsing basic, human goodness.

It is time we recognized�and obliged the Muslim world to recognize�that �Muslim extremism� is not extreme among Muslims. Mainstream Islam itself represents an extremist rejection of intellectual honesty, gender equality, secular politics and genuine pluralism. The truth about Islam is as politically incorrect as it is terrifying: Islam is all fringe and no center. In Islam, we confront a civilization with an arrested history. It is as though a portal in time has opened, and the Christians of the 14th century are pouring into our world.

Islam is the fastest growing religion in Europe. The demographic trends are ominous: Given current birthrates, France could be a majority Muslim country in 25 years, and that is if immigration were to stop tomorrow. Throughout Western Europe, Muslim immigrants show little inclination to acquire the secular and civil values of their host countries, and yet exploit these values to the utmost�demanding tolerance for their backwardness, their misogyny, their anti-Semitism, and the genocidal hatred that is regularly preached in their mosques. Political correctness and fears of racism have rendered many secular Europeans incapable of opposing the terrifying religious commitments of the extremists in their midst. In an effort to appease the lunatic furor arising in the Muslim world in response to the publication of the Danish cartoons, many Western leaders have offered apologies for exercising the very freedoms that are constitutive of civil society in the 21st century. The U.S. and British governments have chastised Denmark and the other countries that published the cartoons for privileging freedom of speech over religious sensitivity. It is not often that one sees the most powerful countries on Earth achieve new depths of weakness, moral exhaustion and geopolitical stupidity with a single gesture. This was appeasement at its most abject.

The idea that Islam is a �peaceful religion hijacked by extremists� is a dangerous fantasy�and it is now a particularly dangerous fantasy for Muslims to indulge. It is not at all clear how we should proceed in our dialogue with the Muslim world, but deluding ourselves with euphemisms is not the answer. It now appears to be a truism in foreign policy circles that real reform in the Muslim world cannot be imposed from the outside. But it is important to recognize why this is so�it is so because the Muslim world is utterly deranged by its religious tribalism. In confronting the religious literalism and ignorance of the Muslim world, we must appreciate how terrifyingly isolated Muslims have become in intellectual terms. The problem is especially acute in the Arab world. Consider: According to the United Nations� Arab Human Development Reports, less than 2% of Arabs have access to the Internet. Arabs represent 5% of the world�s population and yet produce only 1% of the world�s books, most of them religious. In fact, Spain translates more books into Spanish each year than the entire Arab world has translated into Arabic since the ninth century.

Our press should report on the terrifying state of discourse in the Arab press, exposing the degree to which it is a tissue of lies, conspiracy theories and exhortations to recapture the glories of the seventh century. All civilized nations must unite in condemnation of a theology that now threatens to destabilize much of the Earth. Muslim moderates, wherever they are, must be given every tool necessary to win a war of ideas with their coreligionists. Otherwise, we will have to win some very terrible wars in the future. It is time we realized that the endgame for civilization is not political correctness. It is not respect for the abject religious certainties of the mob. It is reason.

And responding to criticism Harris goes further:

Quote:

Anyone familiar with my work knows that I am extremely critical of all religious faiths. I have argued elsewhere that the ascendancy of Christian conservatism in American politics should terrify and embarrass us. I have argued that the religious dogmatism of the Jewish settlers could well be the cause of World War III. And yet, there are gradations to the evil that is done in name of God, and these gradations must be honestly observed. So let us now acknowledge the obvious: there is a direct link between the doctrine of Islam and Muslim violence. Acknowledging this link remains especially taboo among political liberals. While liberals are leery of religious fundamentalism in general, they consistently imagine that all religions at their core teach the same thing and teach it equally well. This is one of the many delusions borne of political correctness. Rather than continue to squander precious time, energy, and good will by denying the role that Islam now plays in perpetuating Muslim violence, we should urge Muslim communities, East and West, to reform the ideology of their religion. This will not be easy, as the Koran and hadith offer precious little basis for a Muslim Enlightenment, but it is necessary. The truth that we must finally confront is that Islam contains specific notions of martyrdom and jihad that fully explain the character of Muslim violence. Unless the world�s Muslims can find some way of expunging the metaphysics that is fast turning their religion into a cult of death, we will ultimately face the same perversely destructive behavior throughout much of the world. It should be clear that I am not speaking about a race or an ethnicity here; I am speaking about the logical consequences of specific ideas.

Anyone who imagines that terrestrial concerns account for Muslim terrorism must answer questions of the following sort: Where are the Tibetan Buddhist suicide bombers? The Tibetans have suffered an occupation far more brutal, and far more cynical, than any that Britain, the United States, or Israel have ever imposed upon the Muslim world. Where are the throngs of Tibetans ready to perpetrate suicidal atrocities against Chinese noncombatants? They do not exist. What is the difference that makes the difference? The difference lies in the specific tenets of Islam. This is not to say that Buddhism could not help inspire suicidal violence. It can, and it has (Japan, World War II). But this concedes absolutely nothing to the apologists for Islam. As a Buddhist, one has to work extremely hard to justify such barbarism. One need not work nearly so hard as a Muslim. If you doubt whether the comparison is valid, ask yourself where the Palestinian Christian suicide bombers are. Palestinian Christians also suffer the indignity of the Israeli occupation. This is practically a science experiment: take the same people, speaking the same language, put them in the same horrendous circumstance, but give them slightly different religious beliefs�and then watch what happens. What happens is, they behave differently.

While the other major world religions have been fertile sources of intolerance, it is clear that the doctrine of Islam poses unique problems for the emergence of a global civilization. The world, from the point of view of Islam, is divided into the �House of Islam� and the �House of War,� and this latter designation should indicate how Muslims believe their differences with those who do not share their faith will be ultimately resolved. While there are undoubtedly some moderate Muslims who have decided to overlook the irrescindable militancy of their religion, Islam is undeniably a religion of conquest. The only future devout Muslims can envisage�as Muslims�is one in which all infidels have been converted to Islam, politically subjugated, or killed. The tenets of Islam simply do not admit of anything but a temporary sharing of power with the �enemies of God.� Devout Muslims can have no doubt about the reality of Paradise or about the efficacy of martyrdom as a means of getting there. Nor can they question the wisdom and reasonableness of killing people for what amount to theological grievances. In Islam, it is the moderate who is left to split hairs, because the basic thrust of the doctrine is undeniable: convert, subjugate, or kill unbelievers; kill apostates; and conquer the world.

It should be of particular concern to us that the beliefs of devout Muslims pose a special problem for nuclear deterrence. There is, after all, little possibility of our having a cold war with an Islamist regime armed with long-range nuclear weapons. A cold war requires that the parties be mutually deterred by the threat of death. Notions of martyrdom and jihad run roughshod over the logic that allowed the United States and the Soviet Union to pass half a century perched, more or less stably, on the brink of Armageddon. We must come to terms with the possibility that men who are every bit as zealous to die as the September 11th hijackers may one day get their hands on nuclear weaponry. As Martin Rees, Britain�s Royal astronomer, has pointed out, there is no reason to expect that we will be any more successful at stopping nuclear proliferation, in small quantities, than we have been with respect to illegal drugs. If this is true, weapons of mass destruction will eventually be available to anyone who wants them. It seems a truism to say that there is no possible future in which aspiring martyrs will make good neighbors for us.

http://newpaper.asia1.com.sg/news/story/0,4136,195325,00.html

Quote:

PAKISTAN terror group Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) is an even bigger threat than Al-Qaeda, said US security experts.

And they say it could be targeting the US.

'We are and should be concerned about the threat LeT poses, given its global network,' Mr Juan Zarate, deputy national security adviser for counter-terrorism in the Bush administration, told the Chicago Tribune in an interview published on Sunday.

Intelligence agencies report that potentially many tens of thousands of Pakistanis have been trained in LeT's guerrilla camps in Pakistan.

And a small number are active in the US.

'It doesn't just reside in South Asia. It is an organisation that has potential reach all over the world, including the US,' Mr Zarate said.

Mr Bruce Riedel, chairman of the Obama administration's Pakistan-Afghanistan strategy review team, said he believed such a 'global jihadist syndicate' of disaffected young Pakistanis was the most likely mechanism for launching an attack on US soil.

Authorities said thousands of disaffected Westerners and Pakistanis in Britain and other 'visa waiver' countries in Europe travel frequently to Pakistan.

An unknown number of those have trained in LeT camps.

They can also enter the US with virtually no background check.

Evidence confiscated from computer-savvy young militants shows LeT interest in the Washington area, New York, California and Georgia, according to interviews and court testimony.

FBI Director Robert Mueller also highlighted the concern in a recent speech, saying US authorities fear a Mumbai-style commando attack, and that such militants from 'less well-known terrorist groups...are merely an e-ticket away from the US'.

http://www.adnkronos.com/AKI/English/Security/?id=3.0.3089595815

Quote:

Italy: Islamists are the main terrorist threat, says report

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5iN7bgenPq26KqMbut2w864ExMuEQ
Muslim protest mars parade for Iraq troops

Quote:

LONDON (AFP) � Defence minister condemned as "insulting" Tuesday a Muslim protest against a parade for British soldiers returning from Iraq.

http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/2009/03/germanybelgium-investigation-into.html

http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/2009/03/italy-islamist-cells-primary-threat.html

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/130358

Quote:

Violent Intruders Attack Brooklyn Synagogues
(IsraelNN.com) For the second time in less than a week, a packed Brooklyn, New York, synagogue has been the target of threats of violence by intruders.

On Monday, according to Yeshiva World News, an Arab man in his mid-30s entered Boro Park's 'Sephardish Shul' and began making proclamations of jihad. Members of a Jewish volunteer security organization, the Shomrim, apprehended the threatening individual. They held him until police officers arrived at the scene, arresting the suspect. Detectives spoke with the "Middle Eastern man" at a station house near the synagogue.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1160715/Terror-gang-benefits-bought-supplies-Lidl-Argos-Afghan-fighters.html

Quote:

Four members of a British terrorist cell were jailed yesterday for supplying terrorists fighting in Afghanistan with equipment bought with dole money and donations given to help earthquake victims.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1236603391227&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

Quote:

Hatred for Jews in Malm�, Sweden

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/4957666/90m-anti-terrorism-project-is-fanning-the-flames-of-extremism.html

Quote:

�90m anti-terrorism project is fanning the flames of extremism
A new generation of Muslims is being radicalised using the very Government funds that are supposed to be fighting the problem, a new report by the Policy Exchange think-tank says.

http://europenews.dk/en/node/20816

Quote:

Muslim Cop Beats Up Home-less Man, Claims Islamophobia
A Muslim policeman suing Scotland Yard for racial discrimination was sacked after boasting that he beat up a homeless man 'good and proper', an employment tribunal heard today.

http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/2009/03/denmark-fear-of-ethnic-riots.html

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/025140.php

Quote:

Malm�, Sweden: Muslims riot over Israeli player in Davis Cup Match

http://www.memritv.org/clip_transcript/en/2042.htm

Quote:

Egyptian cleric: The Jews "are enemies not because they occupied Palestine. They would have been enemies even if they did not occupy a thing."

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/025128.php

Quote:

Daily Mail removes reference to Muslim husband telling his wife to read the Qur'an as he strangled her

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/025126.php

Quote:

Fort Dix jihad convictions upheld, jihadists respond, "Allahu akbar!"

http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/2009/03/antwerp-muslim-attacks-jews.html

Quote:

Antwerp: Muslim attacks Jews

http://europenews.dk/en/node/20590

Quote:

Norway: "Parents often beat their daughters into obedience and virtue and the hijab as a rule constitutes part of the control"

http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/2009/03/berlin-concern-about-increase-in-anti.html

http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/2009/03/norway-muslim-girls-beaten-for-not.html

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/first100days/2009/02/27/chicago-man-arrested-allegedly-targeting-obama-hiv-infected-blood/

Quote:

Wanting a favor, Ethiopian refugee sends Obama HIV-infected blood

And the best one of the past few days:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/025044.php

Quote:

Police in Scotland have been ordered to give special priority to crimes where the victims are Muslim.

In a move that last night sparked a fresh row over political correctness, a senior officer revealed that the race and religion of a victim has now become a crucial factor in how police respond to crime.

Inspector Tom Galbraith, of Lothian and Borders Police�s diversity unit, told a conference on tackling terrorism that it was important to stop Scottish Muslims feeling �vulnerable� in case they were driven towards radicalism.

Mr. Galbraith said the force encouraged officers to consider the religious or ethnic backgrounds of victims to assess their needs in dealing with hate crimes.

He said that both an attack and a perceived lack of action by police could turn Islamic youths into future terrorists.

bigverne

Joined: 12 May 2004

Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:35 am Post subject:

Listen here Mises, just stop spreading hatred against Muslims by citing evidence of Muslim hatred. Your Islamophobia is a far greater threat to world peace than Muslims (a 'tiny' minority I hasten to add, who have completely 'misinterpreted' their religion!) advocating or engaging in violent Jihad.

Kuros

Joined: 27 Apr 2004

Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:42 am Post subject:

Sam Harris wrote:

we should urge Muslim communities, East and West, to reform the ideology of their religion

Who's naive now?

mises

Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired

Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 12:40 pm Post subject:

http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/1206/p07s02-woeu.html

Quote:

Sweden's rising Muslim tide
Home to one of Europe's most Muslim cities, the country may also be host to increasing radicalism.

By James Brandon | Correspondent of The Christian Science Monitor
MALMO, SWEDEN � As a group of Swedish Muslims begin their midday prayers in a mosque still blackened by smoke from a recent Molotov-cocktail attack, Bejzat Becirov, director of Malmo's Islamic Center, is talking urgently.

"I'm afraid the same thing will happen here as in Paris," says Mr. Becirov, a Macedonian immigrant who opened Scandinavia's first mosque in this city in southern Sweden in 1984.

Malmo, which has one of the highest percentage of Muslims of any western European city, illustrates the challenges facing a continent whose native population is increasingly wary of a rapidly expanding and often discontented Muslim population.

But while the mosque has been a target for attacks since its founding, there is increasing evidence that Islamic militants are gaining a foothold in Sweden by successfully exploiting racial tensions and Muslim anger over economic underachievement, and ghettoization.

Bosnian authorities arrested a Muslim Swede in Sarajevo in October for possession of explosives while Islamist websites published several inflammatory but unsubstantiated claims in late summer that a mujahideen training camp has been established in southern Sweden.

Meanwhile moderate Muslims like Becirov, whose progressive mosque is a place where Sunnis and Shiites praying side by side, are increasingly under fire from both Swedish nationalists who see them as dangerous representatives of radical Islam and Muslim fundamentalists who see them as selling out to Western ideas.

"It's been like hell on earth to deal with this whole process," sighs Becirov, displaying Swedish press accounts of the last firebombing of the mosque Oct. 21.

But although the attacks on Becirov's mosque have generated support from Muslims in Sweden and abroad, many Malmo Muslims are turning to increasingly radical forms of Islam - in some cases alienated by Becirov himself.

"This mosque is no good," says one Palestinian refugee who works nearby. "The imam, he is no good. He says one thing and he does another," he says, accusing him of un-Islamic activities, such as drinking alcohol.

Such suspicions may be pushing even mainstream Swedish Muslims toward radical street preachers, especially in the nearby suburb of Rosengaard where Muslim immigrants form a substantial majority.

"These neighborhoods are hunting grounds for Islamists but how many and how organized [they are] it's impossible to say," says Aje Carlbom, a Malmo University researcher who began studying Rosengaard society nearly ten years ago.

"Twenty years ago when the mosque was established they [its founders] had some political problems and pushed the different factions out," Carlbom explains. "These small factions established their own mosques in basements."

It is a pattern echoed across Europe. While moderate Muslims may disown extremists and bar them from mosques, they do little to challenge extremist ideologies and the radical preachers merely regroup elsewhere, out of sight of both mainstream Muslims and the authorities.

"I know for a fact that there are small extremist groups in Malmo," says Arjumand Carlstein, a social worker at Malmo Islamic Centre, attached to the mosque. "And apart from the organized groups, you also have the Internet and extremists can easily communicate with each other in other parts of the world."

This global phenomenon appears to be spreading to Sweden. In August, several short video clips appeared on the Internet purporting to show experimental detonations of explosives in a wooded valley, supposedly in Sweden.

In September, another Islamist website claiming to speak for Ansar Al-Sunna, the Iraqi terrorist group, said the group had established "a small isolated training camp in southern Sweden."

"We wish to inform the Ummah," said the website, referring to the global Islamic community, "that the Army of Ansar Al-Sunnah in Sweden are well-trained to defend our holy countries ... having established a Mujahideen training camp, located in Skane [the region in southern Sweden that includes Malmo] ... with the help from Allah."

The website's authors claimed that the camp would only be used to train fighters for combat abroad. However they also promised to "capture and punish" the Swedish Evangelist preacher Runar Sogaard who in March called Islam's Prophet Mohammad a "pedophile" for marrying a girl who, according to many Muslim traditions, was only 9 years old.

The website has since been closed down, and experts interviewed for this article were unaware of any such camps. However, the jihadists' claims suggest that problems lie beneath the placid exterior of Swedish society.

While lavish welfare payments have to some extent enabled Sweden to buy off Muslim discontent more effectively than France, some think this has also fomented other problems by preventing many immigrants from advancing economically or socially in Swedish society.

"The Swedish system is very pacifying," says Carlstein. "A lot of people feel you don't have to get a job or learn the language," adding that unemployment and social immobility can help fuel radicalism.

But so far there have been no terrorist attacks or Paris-style revolts in Sweden, and violence in Malmo has been largely between criminal gangs, together with some sporadic attacks against Jewish targets and municipal buses.

"France has a tradition of revolt and demonstration against the state," says Jonathan Friedman, professor of social anthropology at the nearby University of Lund. "But in Sweden it's almost as if the state has sided with the immigrants against the Swedish working class."

"Sweden thinks of itself as immune from terrorism because of its foreign policies," adds Magnus Ranstorp, an analyst at the Swedish National Defence College.

"But one has to be worried about issues like in Holland," he continues, referring to the murder of filmmaker Theo van Gogh, "although it would take a lot for something like that to happen in Sweden."

Sweden!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/10/AR2009031003901.html?wprss=rss_world

Quote:

Somali Americans Recruited by Extremists
U.S. Cites Case of Minnesotan Killed in Suicide Blast in Africa

Senior U.S. counterterrorism officials are stepping up warnings that Islamist extremists in Somalia are radicalizing Americans to their cause, citing their recruitment of the first U.S. citizen suicide bomber and their potential role in the disappearance of more than a dozen Somali American youths.

In recent public statements, the director of national intelligence and the leaders of the FBI and CIA have cited the case of Shirwa Ahmed, a 27-year-old college student from Minneapolis who blew himself up in Somalia on Oct. 29 in one of five simultaneous bombings attributed to al-Shabaab, a group with close links to al-Qaeda.

Since November, the FBI has raced to uncover any ties to foreign extremist networks in the unexpected departures of numerous Somali American teenagers and young men, who family members believe are in Somalia. The investigation is active in Boston; San Diego; Seattle; Columbus, Ohio; and Portland, Maine, a U.S. law enforcement official said, and community members say federal grand juries have issued subpoenas in Minneapolis and elsewhere.

Officials are still trying to assess the scope of the problem but say reports so far do not warrant a major concern about a terrorist threat within the United States. But intelligence officials said the recruitment of U.S. citizens by terrorist groups is particularly worrisome because their American passports could make it easier for them to reenter the country.

Quote:

Al-Shabaab -- meaning "the youth" or "young guys" in Arabic -- "presents U.S. authorities with the most serious evidence to date of a 'homegrown' terrorist recruitment problem right in the American heartland," Georgetown University professor Bruce R. Hoffman says in a forthcoming report by the SITE Intelligence Group, a private firm that monitors Islamist Web sites.

The extent of al-Shabaab's reach into the U.S. Somali community, estimated at up to 200,000 foreign-born residents and their relatives, will be the subject of a hearing today by the Senate homeland security committee, chaired by Sen. Joseph I. Lieberman (I-Conn.).

U.S. officials give varying assessments of the problem. On Feb. 25, CIA Director Leon E. Panetta told reporters that the relationship between Somalis in the United States and in Somalia "raises real concerns about the potential for terrorist activity" and "constitutes a potential threat to the security of this country."

Two days later, FBI Director Robert S. Mueller III appeared to play down the concern, calling Ahmed "just one manifestation of a problem" since the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, of young men in the United States being recruited to fight with terrorists overseas. Federal authorities have investigated cases of U.S. fighters in Afghanistan, Iraq, Yemen and Somalia.

Mueller added in a speech to the Council on Foreign Relations: "We certainly believe that [Ahmed] was recruited here in the United States, and we do believe that there may have been others that have been radicalized as well."

Overall, U.S. intelligence officials assess that "homegrown" extremists are not as numerous, active or skilled here as they are in Europe, but authorities remain focused on what Director of National Intelligence Dennis C. Blair called the "likelihood that a small but violent number of cells may develop here."

Domestic radicalization has been a greater concern in Europe than in the United States, whose economic mobility, assimilative culture and historic openness to immigrants have provided some insulation, U.S. officials suggest. In the year before the 2005 London transit attack, Britain in particular struggled with reports that al-Qaeda was secretly recruiting Muslims at British universities and that up to 3,000 Britons had returned over a decade from the terrorist group's camps.

U.S. authorities have been wary of stereotyping Somalis or overstating concerns, with Mueller recently comparing the situation to that in Ireland, another country with civil strife, terrorism and a large immigrant community in the United States but little violence here.

Al-Shabaab's ranks may also diminish now that an Islamist government has replaced a U.S.-backed Ethiopian occupation in Somalia. "It's very difficult to see how launching an attack using a sleeper cell in the United States would in any way serve their interests," said Kenneth J. Menkhaus, a political scientist at Davidson College who specializes in East Africa.

The FBI investigation of Ahmed's death may help determine how broad the problem is. The coordinated bombings in two cities about 500 miles north of Mogadishu represented "a qualitative leap" of terrorist capabilities and were probably the work of al-Shabaab, according to a United Nations monitoring group. In February 2008, the State Department designated al-Shabaab a terrorist group.

Little has been said publicly about Ahmed, a naturalized citizen who reportedly moved to Minneapolis in 1996 and graduated from high school there. As accounts of his death spread, distraught Somali American families came forward in Minneapolis, alleging that the first young man left a year ago, then eight more on Aug. 1, followed by seven on Election Day. Four families spoke out publicly, and U.S. authorities confirmed the names of Burhan Hassan, 17, and Mustafa Ali, 17, high school seniors who families said attended the Abubakar As-Saddique Islamic Center mosque.

Relatives tell similar stories. Hassan was a bookworm who wanted to become a doctor or a lawyer and spent time after school and on weekends at the mosque, Minnesota's largest, which Ali also attended, said Osman Ahmed, 43, Hassan's cousin. Two 19-year-olds were studying medicine and engineering at the University of Minnesota, but they became antisocial, speaking and eating less as they grew more devout, Ahmed said.

"We believe a minority group are recruiting these kids and brainwashing them and financing and arranging the travel," Ahmed said. "Those who are recruiting kids here can harm us here."

He said the young men periodically call their relatives, who say they repeat terse, scripted statements that they are safe and in Somalia studying, but nothing more.

Omar Jamal, executive director of the Somali Justice Advocacy Center in Minnesota, said the group first alerted the local FBI a year ago, when family members believed Sakaria Sharif Macruf had left and been killed fighting in Somalia. He later turned up alive but with al-Shabaab in Kismaayo, a city in southern Somalia under the group's control, Ahmed said.

Even in Edmonton, the "somali community" puts her stamp on the city quickly. At least the Minn muslims are going home to blow themselves up.. How long that will last, who knows.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/004849.php

Quote:

Full report: Hate ideology fills American mosques

The full 95-page Freedom House report, "Saudi publications on Hate Ideology Fill American Mosques," is now available here in pdf form.

Read it all. The venom directed toward Christians, Jews, Muslims deemed not Islamic enough, and America is breathtaking. There is also a healthy helping of jihad ideology and material advising the oppression of women. And remember, this material is being spread in mosques all over the United States: in 1999, the Naqshbandi Sufi Sheikh Muhammad Hisham Kabbani testified before a State Department open forum that eighty percent of American mosques had extremist leadership. His assertion has never been convincingly refuted.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1132475689987&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FPrinter

Quote:

Saudis have radicalized 80% of US mosques

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=57141

Quote:

Study: 3 in 4 U.S. mosques preach anti-West extremism
Secret survey exposes widespread radicalism

An undercover survey of more than 100 mosques and Islamic schools in America has exposed widespread radicalism, including the alarming finding that 3 in 4 Islamic centers are hotbeds of anti-Western extremism, WND has learned.

So, the next time a silver tongued "moderate" mentions he is off to mosque, know that there is an 80% chance he is hearing stuff that would give OBL an erection.

Mix1

Joined: 08 May 2007

Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 7:56 am Post subject:

bigverne wrote:

Listen here Mises, just stop spreading hatred against Muslims by citing evidence of Muslim hatred. Your Islamophobia is a far greater threat to world peace than Muslims (a 'tiny' minority I hasten to add, who have completely 'misinterpreted' their religion!) advocating or engaging in violent Jihad.

Since when does spreading information = "spreading hatred"?
Even if it is highly selective information, it still adds up to a pretty damning picture.

Have you even read any of the articles/opinion pieces? They are both fascinating and disturbing. I used to take a pretty liberal stance on Islam, thinking it was being victimized the world over. After some more reading, Islam begins to resemble what it generally is: a fascist ideology at the core. This point can and should be argued, and it doesn't do much to just say the other side is spreading hatred.

There is a lot more going on in the Islamic world than most want to look at, specifically the fact that many Muslims are trying to integrate Sharia law into western countries, and many of the western countries are bending over and taking it without even questioning it. These actions could infringe on some of our most basic rights, such as freedom of speech, etc.) There needs to be a debate about what is going on, and it needs to be now.

Also, "Islamophobia" worse than advocating or engaging in violent Jihad?? That's a disgraceful statement. Try telling that to those that died on 9/11.

mises

Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired

Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 2:29 pm Post subject:

Looks like Holland narrowly escaped a Peace Attack from the beautiful Religion of Peace today:

http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/2009/03/breaking-amsterdam-terrorist-cell.html

Quote:

BREAKING: Amsterdam: Terrorist cell intended to blow up shops

BREAKING: Amsterdam: Terrorist cell intended to blow up shops

Amsterdam escaped a terror attack Thursday. A telephone call to the police Wednesday night said that three men wanted to set off explosives in packed stores in Amsterdam-Zuidoost. The authorities cleared branches of IKIA, MediaMarkt and Perry Sport Thursday morning and other stores remained closed due to 'a threat'.

Only on Thursday evening was it clarified what the threat was. The telephone call was made from an apartment in Brussels, which was also searched.

Seven people were arrested in the Netherlands, including a family member of somebody involved in the attacks in Madrid on March 11, 2004, five years and a day ago. They are six men and one woman aged 19 to 64, Dutch of Moroccan background.

The police thinks that the direct threat is over with the arrests, but they are not excluding anything. The investigation is still ongoing and it is unclear when the shops will open again.

Source: Telegraaf (Dutch)

Update:

The seven suspects have not been involved in previous terrorism cases in the Netherlands, it was reported in a joint press conference of the police, justice department and municipality. However, an unknown number of them was involved in violent crime.

Source: Telegraaf (Dutch)

Update 2:

The phone call was made just before midnight from a pre-paid mobile phone. The caller told where the men were staying and named names, addresses and stores. He also gave a vague description.

Source: HLN (Dutch)

mises

Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired

Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 2:30 pm Post subject:

Mix1 wrote:

bigverne wrote:

You ought to search Vern's posting history..

mises

Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired

Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 7:16 pm Post subject:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090312/wl_canada_nm/canada_us_terror_sentence

Quote:

OTTAWA (Reuters) � A Canadian man was sentenced to 10-1/2 years in jail on Thursday for his involvement with a group that planned to bomb nightclubs, trains and a shopping center in Britain.

Software engineer Momin Khawaja, 29, was convicted last October of working with a British gang that he knew was involved in terrorist activity.

"Canadian". Ha. And a cat born in a fish store has scales and swims.

Khawaja worked for Foreign Affairs. Yes, the government.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Momin_Khawaja

Quote:

Mohammad Momin Khawaja (born April 14, 1979, Ottawa) is a Canadian found guilty of involvement in a plot to plant fertilizer bombs in the United Kingdom; while working as a software engineer under contract to the Foreign Affairs department in 2004 became the first person charged and found guilty under the Canadian Anti-Terrorism Act following the proof that he communicated with British Islamists plotting a bomb attack.[1]. On March 12, 2009, Khawaja was sentenced to 10.5 years in prison and is eligible for parole five years into the prison term.[2]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090312/ap_on_re_eu/eu_netherlands_terror

Quote:

AMSTERDAM � Dutch police on Thursday arrested seven people suspected of preparing a terrorist attack in Amsterdam, including a relative of one of the attackers who died in the 2004 bombings in Madrid.

I guess we'll have to wait a little longer to see beautiful islam expressed.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1161404/Muslim-protester-works-baggage-handler-Luton-Airport-security-pass-suspended.html

Quote:

One of the Muslim extremists who waved hate-filled placards at soldiers during a homecoming march works as a baggage handler at Luton Airport, it has emerged.

Typical stuff for the UK.

http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/2009/01/oslo-proposal-for-muslim-elementary.html

Quote:

Oslo: Proposal for Muslim elementary school

http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/2009/01/malmo-rosengard-growing-more-radical.html

Quote:

Malm�: Roseng�rd 'growing more radical'

http://www.internationalfreepresssociety.org/2009/02/once-again-its-the-economy-stupid/

Quote:

Once Again It�s the Economy, Stupid

The Left is only too happy to suppress free speech. It doesn�t know what it�s getting itself into
By Lars Hedegaard

One thing in particular struck me last week when I was in London for the showing of Geert Wilders� Fitna in the House of Lords. Well, apart from the fact that Mr. Wilders was banned from entering the country.

It was the press� uniform designation of the Dutch politician as �right-wing� or even �extreme right-wing�.

What precisely has Geert Wilders done or said that makes him deserving of this epithet? For make no mistake: whereas �left-wing� is considered an accolade and smacks of loving kindness towards green forests, stray dogs in need of a warm place to sleep and undernourished children in Africa, �right-wing� denotes a misanthrope who hates all good people and will eat innocent babies for breakfast.

If one has committed the ultimate sin of criticizing religion, particularly if it is murderous and retrograde, there is no way to wash off the brand of Cain. Politically you may be a socialist, a liberal or a conservative. You may be a staunch supporter of the welfare state, socialized medicine, gay marriage, preferential treatment of women and 75 percent taxation of all private income. It won�t help you if you have distanced yourself from the teachings of the prophet.

This is curious. Irreverent criticism of religion used to be a specialty of the Left. Today such criticism proves that one is a semi-fascist to be shunned in polite company.

The forgotten prophet

There are still a few grizzled post-socialists around that will remember what their old prophet, Karl Marx, had to say about religion in the very first sentence of his Contribution to a Critique of Hegel�s Philosophy of Right from 1843: �� criticism of religion is the premise of all criticism�.

Criticism of religion is not only the starting point of all criticism. It is the prerequisite of any kind of criticism. In a society where religion cannot be criticized, everything becomes religion �� from the length of your beard to what hand to use when wiping your backside.

Where there is no criticism of religion, life and society in their entirety become religious and the littleest squeak against the existing order is eo ipso an act of blasphemy to be rooted out by cutting off the offender�s head.

The courage to blaspheme is consequently the sine qua non of civilization and of social, intellectual and scientific progress. It is also the premise of the separation between church and state, as Jesus Christ was well aware of.

But what passes for the Left these days has long since given up on socialism�s founding fathers � particularly when they were right � and is groveling at the feet of a bloodthirsty moon-god from far Araby.

We know what has happened. But how and why did it come about?

A new worldview

We know that the broad Left � which in Europe would include various shades of the hard, Communist or Marxist Left, the New Left, which has now transformed itself into tree huggers, and the traditional Social Democratic parties � has vacated its traditional ideological positions in order to preach ideologies that used to be hallmarks of the far right. Positions such as the need for censorship, kissing up to demands that �religions� (i.e. Islam) must not be criticized or ridiculed, the institution of ethnic or tribal special privileges and inequality before the law � depending on what ethnic, tribal or clan chief or holy man can ingratiate himself to the top of the totem pole as most aggrieved victim.

This new weltanschauung takes us back to a legal order � or rather lack of order � the like of which we haven�t seen in the civilized world since � when? The democratic revolutions of the 19th century, the French Revolution, the American Revolution, England�s Glorious Revolution, John Milton�s Areopagitica, Magna Carta?

Take your pick. Any one of the above is true.

The road chosen by the parties on the Left permits no return. Having alienated � not to say discarded � large chunks of their traditional working class voters, they are now increasingly dependent on the Muslim vote, which they hope will guarantee them a perpetual foothold at least in the major populations centers.

Goodbye to the welfare state

In the process the Left has also undermined its signal creation, the modern welfare state.

In a remarkable report from 2008, Denmark�s National Bank (the equivalent of the Bank of England or the Federal Reserve) writes:

�A major part of the immigration into Denmark over the past 15-20 years, particularly at the beginning of the period, has come from less developed countries and has consisted of people with a low participation in the labor market causing a relatively large drag on public welfare expenditures. This has lead to a deterioration of the public finances, i.e. it has aggravated the problem of sustainability.

If immigration is to support the financing of the public sector, it must be in the shape of so-called �super immigration�. This concept covers a person who does not immigrate until he has completed his education, who is immediately employable and has an employment frequency of 100 per cent, pays taxes like a Dane, does not bring along his family and leaves the country before he reaches pension age.�

A tall order indeed and one that has never been filled by the sort of immigrants Denmark has been attracting.

Yet the Left has no answer to offer except for more immigration and lamentations over the oppression of Muslims combined with a loving understanding of their need for �respect� and special treatment.

Of course, many � if not most � of the non-socialist parties have been equally eager to embrace mass immigration of non-integratable masses from the third world. But they haven�t really been that wedded to the cradle-to-grave welfare state � at least not in the beginning.

In fact, when we look at such countries as Germany, Holland, England, Denmark, Norway and Sweden, it was private enterprise that started importing cheap and unskilled labor from the rural populations of Bangla Desh, Pakistan, Turkey, Morocco and other such places to fill the gaps along the assembly lines. At that time � in the late sixties and seventies � many spokesmen for the labor unions and the socialist parties were critical of this unwelcome competition that threatened to drive down wages and undermine hard-fought labor rights.

That was when the old industrial society was on its hind legs, soon to be replaced by the knowledge society, in which many of the new immigrants were simply unemployable. Yet they were allowed to stay on, bring in their large families and collect welfare.

The new proletariat

With the fundamental shift from industrial to knowledge society it also became clear that socialism in the shape of the nationalization of the means of production was no longer achievable. The traditional working class was disappearing and the downtrodden masses, which the Marxists had identified as the �revolutionary subject�, became too bourgeois for comfort. They left the socialist parties in droves and began voting for center-right parties that promised them a share of the wealth created by private enterprise. A house, a car, a color tv and such. In other words the kind of amenities that the leftist intelligentsia had come to consider as indispensable for its own lifestyle.

This presented the socialist ideologues with a major problem. From their reading of Lenin, Trotsky and Gramsci they knew that they were destined to remain the vanguard of the masses. The proletariat was unable to reach the required level of political consciousness without the constant goading of their far-sighted betters.

Socialism was no longer in the cards. Still the socialist intelligentsia was unwilling to let go of its claim to power. So it had to find a new revolutionary subject � a class of people that would never allow itself to be bought off by the allure of a bourgeois life but was guaranteed to remain at the edge of society.

And they found the Muslim immigrants. This socialist-Muslim nexus turned out to be a marriage made in heaven. The swelling ranks of the Muslim immigrants could deliver the votes to fill the void left by the disappearing native working classes, and the socialist parties could reciprocate by delivering welfare benefits, cultural concessions and free immigration to their to non-working Muslim charges.

The tiger�s tail

This well-functioning political arrangement, however, is on the verge of making the welfare state unsustainable. It is crumbling all over Europe, but there is no way back for the Left. There is no option but to cling ever tighter to the tiger�s tail. Otherwise the beast will turn around and bite them. We have already seen intifadas in England, France, Denmark and Norway. If the �youths� don�t have their way, they will burn the town down, smash up the cars and brutalize the indigenous population.

To keep this bizarre road show running, it has become necessary for the leftist rulers to crush free speech. However much they may privately deplore it, there is nothing else to do if they want to retain the Muslim vote that keeps them in power.

A poll conducted by the official Statistics Denmark and published on February 10, 2009, shows that 50 percent of the Muslim immigrants and their descendants want to make attacks on religion a criminal offense. 36 percent of the immigrants and 40 percent of their descendants disagree.

The corresponding figures for ethnic Danes are 79 percent against and only 15 percent in favor.

The next step �� a head-on attack on democracy itself � is in the works. Throughout Europe we are already seeing arrests and convictions of �right-wing� agitators who refuse to laud the multicultural state as the epitome of social virtue.

Further down this slope there may be bans on political parties that threaten to rally significant numbers of the non-Muslim

population.

The economy strikes back

There is, however, one fact of life that our power holders have left out of their political equation. That is � as Bill Clinton has so aptly expressed it � the economy, stupid.

In the near future the economy will strike back. Censorship and persecution of the unruly will not save the welfare state. How will the native populations react when they find out that their kids are not being educated, that they are not receiving adequate treatment in the hospitals, that their pensions and other welfare benefits are dwindling and that they cannot rely on the police to protect them? In a situation where they cannot themselves pay for such services because the state continues to suck up most of their income?

That is the question.

An equally intriguing question is how the captains of private enterprises and their investors will react when they realize that capitalism is incompatible with sharia law. Free enterprise cannot flourish in a society where there is no security of property rights and where there are no courts to enforce contracts.

And that is precisely the problem inherent in the likely spread of sharia courts and �sharia financing�.

If you are an infidel who happens to have done business with a true believer, the sharia court is duty bound to find against you because sharia law is based on the inequality of Muslims and non-Muslims. It is even worse if you happen to be an infidel businesswoman.

Perhaps it is time that the business community, which has so far preferred to stay aloof, starts paying attention to the real world.

mises

Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired

Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 7:21 pm Post subject:

Why women should 1) never live in a muslim country and 2) marry a muslim man:

http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,25177107-954,00.html

Quote:

A BRITISH mother of two is being held in jail after being found guilty of adultery - for having a cup of tea with a male friend.

Marnie Pearce, 40, had separated from her Egyptian husband Ihab El-Labban when he burst into her Dubai home and found her drinking tea with another man.

Mr El-Labban now has custody of their two children - Ziad, 4, and Laith, 7 - and former classroom assistant Ms Pearce fears she may never see them again because she will be deported as soon as she is released.

Amnesty International says Ms Pearce, who has lived in Dubai for 15 years, is "a prisoner of conscience".

Mr El-Labban made the claim of adultery - which is a crime in the strict Muslim country - during a custody battle over the boys.

Ms Pearce, who denies a physical relationship with the man, went on the run with the boys but eventually gave herself up and handed the sobbing children over before her case was heard and she was sentenced.

"She should be immediately and unconditionally released," Amnesty's UK representative Tim Hancock said.

"The rights of these two young children are in serious danger of being forgotten in the dispute between their parents. The boys should be allowed to express their own opinion on what should happen to them."

One appeal was dismissed, although a court did agree to reduce her original six-month sentence to three months.

A verdict on her most recent appeal is expected by March 16.

First, "moderate Dubai". blah blah blah. Platitudes. Second, now this woman has wide open eyes.

Mix1

Joined: 08 May 2007

Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 4:04 am Post subject:

mises wrote:

Mix1 wrote:

bigverne wrote:

You ought to search Vern's posting history..

Oops! You're right! Sorry Vern, didn't realize it was sarcasm.

You never know these days though. There are so many apologists out there who have said similar things, it all starts to sound like white noise after awhile.

mises

Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired

Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 6:57 am Post subject:

http://www.mumbaimirror.com/index.aspx?page=article&sectid=3&contentid=200903122009031203014107514bea34

Quote:

Shahdol: An eight-year-old girl was on Wednesday allegedly shot at and injured by a person apparently peeved with her for spraying colour at him on the occasion of Holi at Parmaniya Khurd village in Shahdol district of Madhya Pradesh.

Shelly Gupta was hurt in both legs when fisherman Mohammed Rashid of Singpur village allegedly opened fire with his gun at a group of children celebrating Holi as they sprayed him with colours, Kotwali police station in-charge Vijay Pratap Singh said. She was admitted to the Shahdol district hospital where her condition was stated to be out of danger.

Hearing gunshots, villagers gathered at the spot and beat up Rashid before handing him over to the police. A case has been registered against the accused.

Old enough to marry, old enough to shoot??

Quote:

Immigrant families suspected of state benefit fraud

The Dutch social benefits authority SVB is tightening controls on Dutch-Moroccan and Dutch-Turkish families with children who live on their own in their country of origin.

Families of children aged between 12 and 17 in the Netherlands can claim nearly 280 euros a quarter in child benefit. If the child lives independently in another country, the parents may still be entitled to claim benefit. And providing their child is living abroad specifically to study and does not have earnings above a given threshold, the parents can claim double the amount of benefit to make up for their extra maintenance expenses. The regulations apply to EU countries, and also other countries that have signed a cooperation agreement with the Netherlands, which include Morocco and Turkey.

Random checks have shown that the claims of 54 percent of Moroccan families with children abroad were suspect, as were those of 31 percent of Turkish families. An SVB spokesperson told press agency Novum that the fraud includes families claiming a child lives independently in Turkey or Morocco, when in fact they live with family. SVB will now intensify its checks on families claiming benefit for children studying in Turkey or Morocco.

http://www.radionetherlands.nl/news/zijlijn/6213946/Immigrant-families-suspected-of-state-benefit-fraud

Welfare states require huge levels of social trust, cohesion and agreement. When these break down, the support for the welfare state will break down. islam in Europe is the end of the welfare state.

Add to this that muslims hardly work. As we see below muslims have employment rates similar to very elderly women. Who are going to pay the taxes to support million of tax parasites when muslims are in the majority?

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2009/03/13/europe/EU-Netherlands-Anti-Semitism.php

Quote:

Dutch judge orders teens to visit Anne Frank House
The Associated Press

THE HAGUE, Netherlands: A Dutch judge has ordered four teenagers to visit the Anne Frank House museum after finding them guilty of discrimination for insulting Jews at a rally.

The boys, aged 14 to 17, must turn in a report to the Hague Police Judge about their visit the canal house in Amsterdam where Anne Frank and her family hid from Nazi occupiers during World War II.

The four boys were convicted Friday for insulting Jews who were protesting Israel's military attack on Gaza. Prosecutors say two boys held a banner with a swastika superimposed on the Star of David, and two shouted "Hamas, Hamas, all Jews to the gas."

The judge also convicted and fined three adults for shouting anti-Semitic slogans at the Jan. 18 rally in The Hague.

The judge is just going to give the muslims ideas, but having them visit Frank's home.

http://www.cbn.com/CBNnews/556299.aspx

Quote:

Malm�, Sweden: Growing Muslim Influence

March 12, 2009

CBNNews.com - MALMO, Sweden -- A few years ago, the London Guardian newspaper called Sweden the most successful society the world has ever known. But Sweden today is being transformed by a large influx of immigrants from the Middle East.

Sweden's third largest city, Malm�, sits just across the water from Copenhagen, Denmark. To visitors, Malm� seems quiet, nice, maybe a little boring; in other words, quintessentially Swedish. But under the surface, Malm� has serious problems.

On Saturday when Israel played Sweden in a Davis cup tennis match in Malm�, an estimated 6,000 Leftists, Arabs, Muslims and anarchists protested the Israeli presence in the city, and hundreds attacked police. Almost no fans were allowed inside to watch the tennis series, because authorities feared disruptions or possible violence against the Israeli team.

Swedish City's Population One-Quarter Muslim

Massive immigration has made Malm� today one quarter Muslim, and stands to transform it into a Muslim majority city within just a few decades. One of the most popular baby names is not Sven, but Mohammed. Pork has been taken off some school menus. Want to learn to drive? You can attend Malm�'s own "Jihad Driving School."

But despite Malm�'s usually placid appearance, this experiment in multiculturalism has not gone well. In the Rosengaard section of Malm�, a housing project made up primarily of immigrants, fire and emergency workers will no longer enter without police protection.

Unemployment in Rosengaard is reported to be 70 percent. An immigrant-fueled crime wave affects one of every three Malm� families each year. The number of rapes has tripled in 20 years.

But Malm� has been so accommodating toward immigrant Muslims that a local Muslim politician, Adly Abu Hajar, has declared that "The best Islamic state is Sweden!"

Jews Cannot Walk The Streets

Don't ask Malm�'s Jews to give the city the same glowing assessment. Jews who dare walk the streets wearing their yarmulkes risk being beaten up.

"It's true. Jews cannot walk the streets of Malm� and show that they're Jews," said Lars Hedegaard.

Hedegaard lives across the water from Malm� in Copenhagen, Denmark, where he was a columnist for one of Denmark's largest newspapers. He says pro-Israel demonstrations in Malm�, like the ones during the fighting in Gaza earlier this year, were met with rocks, bottles and pipe bombs from Arabs and Leftists.

"I was there for demonstration; a pro-Israeli demonstration with about 400 or 500 people," Hedegaard told CBN News. "Jews and non-Jews, and I came over to cover it. The police allowed, I'd say a hundred Palestinians or Arabs to shout and threaten and throw bombs and rockets at us. A homemade bomb landed about ten yards from me, and went off with a big bang. And now of course, I thought the police were going to jump these guys, get them out of the way. They didn't. They just let them stand there."

Swede Ted Ekeroth helped film the Arab-Left counter-demonstrations. He saw Arabs throwing rocks at a 90-year-old holocaust survivor.

"I filmed the police chief and asked him why are they not reacting to this," Ekeroth said. "Why are they not doing anything? And he simply answered, 'It's their right according to the Swedish constitution.' We apparently did not have the same right, because we were forced out of there. Our manifestation for Israel is always peaceful, and theirs is always the quite opposite -- Death, hate and killing of Jews. They come and they shout different slogans," he continued. "It can be everything from Arabic slogans inciting killing of Jews to in Swedish and Danish, 'Kill the Jews.'

Political Alliance Against Israel

And like all over the Western world, some on the Left, along with Arabs and Muslims and anarchists, have formed a political alliance against Israel and Jews. They demonstrate together, and in Sweden, they vote together. Muslims are a core constituency of the Left.

The immigrant issue a big reason the right-wing Swedish Democrats are the fastest growing political party in the country.

Matthias Karlsson is the Swedish Democrats' Press Secretary

"In many parts of Sweden, people are, as I said, fed up," Karlsson said. "And they're being pushed too far and they want to make a stand."

Fascist and Bigoted?

Swedish Democrats, who stand for traditional Christian values and limits on immigration, have been stigmatized by the Swedish media as fascist and bigoted.

Erik Almqvuist is national youth leader for the Swedish Democrats.

"The media has tried to portray us as extremists, racists," he said. "People think we're almost inhuman"

Almqvuist faces regular death threats, and was almost killed recently in a Left-wing knife attack.

"The multicultural model in Sweden has polarized society," Almqvuist explained. "We have a political polarization. We have also an ethnic polarization. And the extremes are growing and it's harder and harder to get to consensus."

Hedegaard says as Malm� goes, so goes the rest of Sweden.

"I think the best prediction is that Sweden will have a Muslim majority by 2049, so we know where that country's going," he said.

CBN News was unable to get a response from Malm�'s mayor, Ilmar Reepalu. But he told a Swedish publication that he does not think anti-Semitism is greater in Malm� than in other Swedish cities, and said that harassment of Jews is "not good."

CBN News also asked a number of Malm� Jewish leaders to appear on camera to discuss the climate of anti-Semitism. They all declined, with one saying it would only make the situation worse.

Par stuff here. 70% unemployment, Jews attacked (and a "rape wave" against natives). Bloody Sweden.. The Guardian was right, it probably was the most successful society in human history. Then they imported muslims, and now the country is going to shit.

caniff

Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map

Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 7:28 pm Post subject:

mises wrote:

Cue a muslim apologist who'll claim that it's all the Swedes' fault.

ReeseDog

Joined: 05 Apr 2008
Location: Classified

Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 8:12 pm Post subject:

Mix1 wrote:

bigverne wrote:

Easy, there, Mix. Verne's just forking with Mises. He's just about as sane as the rest of us (for what that's worth ). Smile

On the other hand

Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue

Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 9:58 pm Post subject:

caniff wrote:

mises wrote:

Cue a muslim apologist who'll claim that it's all the Swedes' fault.

Can you cite me someone on this board who, presented with evidence of rape and anti-semitism among Muslims somewhere, would blame it on the non-Muslim majority?

The argument I've seen on these threads is more along the lines of saying that Muslim crimes are singled out for criticism by the anti-Muslim crowd, whereas non-Muslims get a pass for the same things. True or false, that strikes me as a somewhat different argument than saying that yeah, Muslims commit a lot of rape and anti-semitism, but it's not their fault.

But anyway, yes. A citation would be appreciated.

caniff

Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map

Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 10:04 pm Post subject:

On the other hand wrote:

caniff wrote:

mises wrote:

Cue a muslim apologist who'll claim that it's all the Swedes' fault.

What are getting on about? I didn't name names, I just said "Cue a Muslim apologist" who'll blame the Swedes for the crap that is happening in their country. Perhaps one will be along shortly.

Are you defensive or just feeling cranky?

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