| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
tsmith62
Joined: 06 Mar 2008
|
 Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 3:45 pm Post subject: grammar point - married to v.s. married with |
 |
|
I know that it is proper to say "married to" and not "married with" when referring to who I am married.
i.e.
She is married to Jim.
I'm married to Pam.
etc.
and NOT She is married with Jim.
Is there some sort of grammar rule that prohibits the use of "married with" unless it's something like "she's married with kids"?
It's just one of those situations where I instinctively know the answer but I'm sure my students would appreciate a more concrete explanation. I've tried googling for days but haven't come up with anything on the rule this case applies to.
thanks in advance for your time & effort |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
michaelambling
Joined: 31 Dec 2008
Location: Paradise
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 3:51 pm Post subject: Re: grammar point - married to v.s. married with |
|
|
| tsmith62 wrote: |
I know that it is proper to say "married to" and not "married with" when referring to who I am married.
i.e.
She is married to Jim.
I'm married to Pam.
etc.
and NOT She is married with Jim.
Is there some sort of grammar rule that prohibits the use of "married with" unless it's something like "she's married with kids"?
It's just one of those situations where I instinctively know the answer but I'm sure my students would appreciate a more concrete explanation. I've tried googling for days but haven't come up with anything on the rule this case applies to.
thanks in advance for your time & effort |
"married with + children" is correct.
"married with + spoud" is not. It's always "married to my husband" or "married to a man". You must use an article or possessive pronoun, unless it's a name. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 4:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I doubt that there's a rule, but my best guess is that if someone is married, they have to be married to someone else.
If you say married with someone else, the meaning is unclear as it might imply something like a double wedding.
The two couples were married "with" each other. (together in the same ceremony) but they were not married "to" the other couple.
They were only married TO their respective spouses.
I hope this helps. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 6:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
tssmith62 wrote:
| Quote: |
| It's just one of those situations where I instinctively know the answer but I'm sure my students would appreciate a more concrete explanation. |
...oddly enough you are closer to given a more concrete explanation than you may think.
Many native teachers don't realize the importance of corpus linguistics and the prevalence of collocations to answer most irregular grammar questions.
married to - is an accepted linguistic string - collocation - which has a meaning comparable in grammatical usage to many idiomatic situations.
Trying to suggest a rule would most likely disclose more exceptions to the rule than there are instances of it.
As a rule of thumb...when you find yourself "instinctively knowing" the correct usage, but unable to explain it...you can be fairly certain that an acceptable answer would be under the umbrella of corpus linguistics and collocations.
�just as a quick example of how confusing it would be to nail down a rule of �to� and �with� � just in relationship terms.
married to- (married and my marriage partner is) I am married to Tom.
going with (going out with)� dating - I am going out with Mary, now.
going with (going out with) � meeting � I am going out with the guys this weekend.
going to (going out to)� visiting - I am going out to Mary�s this weekend�.perhaps a country estate.
Of course the studies are increasing in terms of being able to explain collocations more accurately, but as I said earlier, the exceptions are likely to dominate any rule that comes along. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Straphanger
Joined: 09 Oct 2008
Location: Chilgok, Korea
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 6:10 pm Post subject: Re: grammar point - married to v.s. married with |
|
|
| tsmith62 wrote: |
| I know that it is proper to say "married to" and not "married with" when referring to who I am married. |
"Married to" is a phrasal verb in English. "Married with" is not. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Fishead soup
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Location: Korea
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 6:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I'll score big time points with my co-teacher if I suggest putting this on the next mid term. Never mind the fact that most of the students can't
answer basic wh questions. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
samcheokguy
Joined: 02 Nov 2008
Location: Samcheok G-do
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 6:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| to a degree prepositions are used, as an above poster, has said, as they have evolved in that language. There is no reason WHY we say /married to/ but /play with/. It just is. In a thousand years we may drop a few tenses in English. Why? Who knows. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Straphanger
Joined: 09 Oct 2008
Location: Chilgok, Korea
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 6:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| samcheokguy wrote: |
| to a degree prepositions are used, as an above poster, has said, as they have evolved in that language. There is no reason WHY we say /married to/ but /play with/. It just is. In a thousand years we may drop a few tenses in English. Why? Who knows. |
He's a language teacher, not a linguist. I'm not one either. I can tell you that island is spelled with an 's' that isn't pronounced, and a small island is called an islet, and I'm fairly sure this has something to do with the Norman push north, but beyond that, all I can do is show you in a dictionary where the spelling is correct. I was taking pedagogy classes from the College of Education curriculum while other English majors were taking the language courses that taught these little things. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ArizonaBill
Joined: 24 Mar 2009
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 6:42 pm Post subject: Re: grammar point - married to v.s. married with |
|
|
| tsmith62 wrote: |
I know that it is proper to say "married to" and not "married with" when referring to who I am married.
|
I think the question of married to vs married with has been answered in this thread pretty well, but one last thing to point out, since the topic is grammar: "when referring to who I am married," should properly be, "when referring to whom I am married." Since who is the direct object of the sentence, the objective form of the word, whom, is required to be grammatically correct. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tsmith62
Joined: 06 Mar 2008
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 6:53 pm Post subject: Re: grammar point - married to v.s. married with |
|
|
| ArizonaBill wrote: |
| tsmith62 wrote: |
I know that it is proper to say "married to" and not "married with" when referring to who I am married.
|
I think the question of married to vs married with has been answered in this thread pretty well, but one last thing to point out, since the topic is grammar: "when referring to who I am married," should properly be, "when referring to whom I am married." Since who is the direct object of the sentence, the objective form of the word, whom, is required to be grammatically correct. |
yeah i regretted it as soon as i posted it. :p thanks though to you and all the other posters. i think i've got a better handle on it already |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
call_the_shots
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 6:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Just thinking out loud...
To:
A is related to B
A is married to B
With:
A has a relationship with B
A has a marriage with B(?)
I probably just made things worse instead of better... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
icnelly
Joined: 25 Jan 2006
Location: Bucheon
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 9:04 pm Post subject: Re: grammar point - married to v.s. married with |
|
|
| Straphanger wrote: |
| tsmith62 wrote: |
| I know that it is proper to say "married to" and not "married with" when referring to who I am married. |
"Married to" is a phrasal verb in English. "Married with" is not. |
Wrong. It is not a phrasal verb in this instance. It is a common combination (collocation) of a particple (married) with a certain preposition (to).
The example uses married as an adjective: She is married to Jim.
Subject+Linking Verb+Predicate Adjective+Prepositional phrase.
You can say: She is married.
You cannot say: She is married to.
Does anyone have information (links/books) on using phrasal verbs as a predicate adjective? Or for that matter with "married to" as a phrasal verb. I'm pretty sure particle movement (in transitive sentences) as a syntactic test denies it phrasal verb status:
1. I looked up the page.
1a. I looked the page up.
2. I married to Jim.
2a. I married Jim to. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Straphanger
Joined: 09 Oct 2008
Location: Chilgok, Korea
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 9:06 pm Post subject: Re: grammar point - married to v.s. married with |
|
|
| icnelly wrote: |
| Does anyone have information (links/books) on using phrasal verbs as a predicate adjective? Or for that matter with "married to" as a phrasal verb. |
Just because the verb phrase requires an object doesn't mean it's not a verb phrase. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
samcheokguy
Joined: 02 Nov 2008
Location: Samcheok G-do
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 9:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| phrasal verb is a perscriptive, not descriptive grammarian approach in my opinion. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
icnelly
Joined: 25 Jan 2006
Location: Bucheon
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 9:32 pm Post subject: Re: grammar point - married to v.s. married with |
|
|
| Straphanger wrote: |
| icnelly wrote: |
| Does anyone have information (links/books) on using phrasal verbs as a predicate adjective? Or for that matter with "married to" as a phrasal verb. |
Just because the verb phrase requires an object doesn't mean it's not a verb phrase. |
Basically, I was saying the opposite: Just because there seems to be an object doesn't mean it's verbal.
No need to bring prescriptive, descriptive, or generative arguments into this. Let's try and figure something interesting out.
Examples and parsing should satisfy this more. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
