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Soju808
Joined: 25 Jul 2007
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 Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 9:06 pm Post subject: Getting scolded for not controlling kids? |
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I teach at a public school, and I know it is required that you have a Korean Co-Teacher with you at all times.
For me, 75% of my classes I teach alone. Generally, I don't mind teaching alone because I can teach the way I want. The only downside to teaching alone is that sometimes it is hard to control the kids.
However, I just hate it when this one co-teahcers always scolds me if I the kids get out of control. She told me, it is my job to control the kids and I need to take more responsibility for that.
Can I get in trouble for not always being able to control the kids?? |
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antoniothegreat
Joined: 28 Aug 2005
Location: Yangpyeong
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| Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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get in trouble? not really, unless your class is too lowd and distracts nearby classes.
can you be considered incompetent? yes... that is a part of the job duty, classroom control, but your coteacher should be helping you, not scolding you. |
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gregoriomills
Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Location: Busan, Korea
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| Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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When it comes down to it, classroom management is the job of a teacher, but not a guest teacher. But just because it's not your job, doesn't mean your life will be easier without it!
So you have a few options: stand up to your teacher and tell him/her that they are supposed to go to class with you (however, this won't solve your discipline problems), don't stand up to him/her and carry on as usual, not really caring how out of control your class is (this can happen just as well WITH a Korean co-teacher), or take the classroom management into your own hands, even though it's not your job, technically.
Should you have a teacher with you in the classroom?
Yes. They get paid much more than you do, so it's technically THEIR headache. The classes they are supposed to have with you count towards their weekly number of classes, also. I don't care what all the old-timers on dave's post, pull out the contract if you have to, the writing is clear as day. Also, if you go into any normal K ms/hs classroom by yourself or with a co-teacher, at least some of your classes will be out of control, but they will be much better with even very simple discipline techniques. If that's not good enough for your co-teacher, tell him/her to stuff it; and dont' sweat it, you will never lose your job over it. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:04 pm Post subject: Re: Getting scolded for not controlling kids? |
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| Soju808 wrote: |
I teach at a public school, and I know it is required that you have a Korean Co-Teacher with you at all times.
For me, 75% of my classes I teach alone. Generally, I don't mind teaching alone because I can teach the way I want. The only downside to teaching alone is that sometimes it is hard to control the kids.
However, I just hate it when this one co-teahcers always scolds me if I the kids get out of control. She told me, it is my job to control the kids and I need to take more responsibility for that.
Can I get in trouble for not always being able to control the kids?? |
Tell her that technically the Korean co-teacher is responsible for classroom control.
And then just get up and walk out the next time she starts complaining.
That said, it might be a good idea to start taking more control. There are numberous tips and strategies on here and over the 'Net. It'll make your life a little more bearable as well.  |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:11 pm Post subject: Re: Getting scolded for not controlling kids? |
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| Soju808 wrote: |
I teach at a public school, and I know it is required that you have a Korean Co-Teacher with you at all times.
For me, 75% of my classes I teach alone. Generally, I don't mind teaching alone because I can teach the way I want. The only downside to teaching alone is that sometimes it is hard to control the kids.
However, I just hate it when this one co-teahcers always scolds me if I the kids get out of control. She told me, it is my job to control the kids and I need to take more responsibility for that.
Can I get in trouble for not always being able to control the kids?? |
In North America when new teachers don't get their contracts renewed it's most commonly because they can't control the kids. Over here that's much less likely to happen, as the general impression you create in the staff room is more important than what happens in your classroom.
Your CT is right, though - it is your job and you need to take responsibility for it. Would you take a job operating machinery that you don't know how to handle? Would you take a job consulting people about something you don't know enough about? Then why would you stay at a job teaching kids you can't manage? If they're tying your hands when it comes to disciplining that's one thing, but if you're at a public school where you have the other teachers' support there's really no excuse. |
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Goku
Joined: 10 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:38 pm Post subject: |
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I have written some posts that might help you with classroom control.
When I first came over 6 months ago I was green as hell. But with a lot of observation, study, understanding, and experimentaiton you will be so good the kids will eat out of your hands.
In the beginning it will seem hard, but classroom control is about what kind of atmosphere you bring into the classroom. Don't let the whole "I don't speak Korean" thing bother you. Not speaking Korean can actually be a strength if you can play your cards right. Not having a co-teacher can also play in your favor.
I recommend asking the most intimidating and controlling Korean teacher if you can watch her class. Examine her mannerisms, her behavior, watch her tone of voice. Actually, not understanding what she says will clue you into the subtle body language and behavior she will use to control the class.
Kids are all about bending to the strong and bullying the weak. Make sure you are not the later.
If you request it, I can give you better tips on classroom control. Let me know. |
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frankly speaking
Joined: 23 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:47 pm Post subject: |
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Only in Korea would someone of 6 months experience give advice on how to do something. I think that it is ironic that people here consider themselves experienced teachers after completing 1 contract.
Personally, I think that it is a mistake for Korean public schools to hire all of these inexperienced kids to teach that don't have any sort of qualification.
Relying on a Korean teacher to handle discipline is ridiculous. Classroom management is a primary skill for any teacher.
To the original poster. I am sorry that your Korean co teacher confronted you, but the bottom line is that you don't deserve to teach. If you cannot have any sort of control over your classroom, how can you expect them to learn anything.
Stop whining and learn how to teach.
Would any of you try to gget a job as a pilot before you learn how to fly, then why do you do it for teaching?
Sorry if I sound harsh, but I am just tired of hearing all these complaints about other people when it is you yourself that is the problem. |
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Billos
Joined: 14 Oct 2008
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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| frankly speaking wrote: |
Only in Korea would someone of 6 months experience give advice on how to do something. I think that it is ironic that people here consider themselves experienced teachers after completing 1 contract.
Personally, I think that it is a mistake for Korean public schools to hire all of these inexperienced kids to teach that don't have any sort of qualification.
Relying on a Korean teacher to handle discipline is ridiculous. Classroom management is a primary skill for any teacher.
To the original poster. I am sorry that your Korean co teacher confronted you, but the bottom line is that you don't deserve to teach. If you cannot have any sort of control over your classroom, how can you expect them to learn anything.
Stop whining and learn how to teach.
Would any of you try to gget a job as a pilot before you learn how to fly, then why do you do it for teaching?
Sorry if I sound harsh, but I am just tired of hearing all these complaints about other people when it is you yourself that is the problem. |
Frankly speaking by name, frankly speaking by nature. |
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samcheokguy
Joined: 02 Nov 2008
Location: Samcheok G-do
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| Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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It is insane and idiotic to expect someone who
1)can't speak the same language
2)is from another culture
3)is considered an object less worthy of respect than the natives
4)is spread over several schools, or hundreds of kids
to develop any kind of serious rapport which would be required to discipline these students. Those of you who are have either the support of your Korean co-teachers, teach genuinely motivated students, or are just lying on daves again. |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 11:28 pm Post subject: |
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| samcheokguy wrote: |
It is insane and idiotic to expect someone who
1)can't speak the same language
2)is from another culture
3)is considered an object less worthy of respect than the natives
4)is spread over several schools, or hundreds of kids
to develop any kind of serious rapport which would be required to discipline these students. Those of you who are have either the support of your Korean co-teachers, teach genuinely motivated students, or are just lying on daves again. |
Perhaps that just shows what a difference it makes to be at only one, very supportive, school for a number of years.
However, it's also insane and idiotic for someone:
1. Not to learn any of the language even after being here for a year.
2. Expect cultural values and expectations to work the same.
3. Not learn what to do to gain respect in this culture.
4. Take gigs where you're spread so thinly you don't know 99% of the students' names. |
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Goku
Joined: 10 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 11:39 pm Post subject: |
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| frankly speaking wrote: |
Only in Korea would someone of 6 months experience give advice on how to do something. I think that it is ironic that people here consider themselves experienced teachers after completing 1 contract.
Personally, I think that it is a mistake for Korean public schools to hire all of these inexperienced kids to teach that don't have any sort of qualification.
Relying on a Korean teacher to handle discipline is ridiculous. Classroom management is a primary skill for any teacher.
To the original poster. I am sorry that your Korean co teacher confronted you, but the bottom line is that you don't deserve to teach. If you cannot have any sort of control over your classroom, how can you expect them to learn anything.
Stop whining and learn how to teach.
Would any of you try to gget a job as a pilot before you learn how to fly, then why do you do it for teaching?
Sorry if I sound harsh, but I am just tired of hearing all these complaints about other people when it is you yourself that is the problem. |
I disagree vehemently and am actually insulted you insuinate my lack of experience is any grounds to discount solid advice.
HOWEVER, I do agree that it's a mistake for Korea to hire inexperienced teachers. We haven't been trained nor have the qualifications to teach. I think teaching isn't some job that can be easily handled by anyone. It's difficult to do well, and even more difficult for a foreign teacher who cannot speak the language. Believe me, I'm just as fed up with inexperienced teachers who don't put in effort and think that teaching is an easy job. I'm green admittedly, but I'm willing to learn and am proffessional 100% of the way.
My advice comes partly from my own experience, but mostly from other experienced teachers. I spent countless nights reseraching classroom management, observing good Korean teachers, and I also have a good family friend who is a professor of education from Harvard who was willing to impart good advice to me. All these combined I have developed a well forumlated set of preliminary foundations on how to maintain classroom control.
I have changed my image and the kids listen and don't interrupt class anymore. Classroom control is an art. It's not a set of easy principals that are rules on a piece of paper that can be followed line by line. It takes consideration, planning, and knowing and understanding child behavior to effectively "control" children. It's also about knowing the atmosphere and having confidence to lead the children into the disscussions that you want without having it go into countless stupid questions like "teacher, why are you so handsome?"
I used my 6 months not as a backbone to say I have much experience but to show that I'm rather green myself. And that it doesn't take 2-3 years teaching experience to control a class. Rather it takes intelligence, charisma, and an element of empathy and social aptitiude to control kids. Sorry if I'm too "young
OP the foundation on which you will be able to effectively control a class will be your understanding of Children. Children are products of enviroments and learning. Fudementally, you need to know how kids think. Why are they rebelling? What is there to gain?
The "bad" children, which I use this term very loosely as there are no bad children, are products of parents and adults who haven't shaped the kids or have let them known proper behavior. Another root cause is attention. Kids crave attention whether good or bad. And generally "bad" behavior is more rewarding, especially when a classroom full of kids is laughing with him.
sorry gtg class lol |
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Soju808
Joined: 25 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 11:44 pm Post subject: |
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I have been teaching for over a year here in Korea, I've gotten way better with classroom management. It's just one or two classes where the kids give me a hard time. And that's where my co-teacher gives me a hard time. It's impossible to control all the kids, especially if you're not Korean, because will never give you the same kind of respect as they would to a KT.
I'll admit, I don't have a certificate, nor classroom management training. But back in my home country I did have teaching experience. I had no problem controlling the kids overthere. Korean discipline and American discipline is different, and its not the langauge barrier (because I speak Korean).
I know many English Teacher's here in Korea who can't control the kids if they are left alone. Especially if you are teaching a class where the kids don't want to learn, and don't give a dam if you punish them. Even a Korean Co-Teacher of mine told me that Korean kids will only listen to their homeroom teacher.
"Frankly speaking", I don't care about you being harsh. It's your opinion, and your entitled to it. |
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gregoriomills
Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Location: Busan, Korea
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| Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 11:52 pm Post subject: |
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| frankly speaking wrote: |
| Only in Korea would someone of 6 months experience give advice on how to do something. I think that it is ironic that people here consider themselves experienced teachers after completing 1 contract. |
Yeah, man, TWO years experience so SO much more than 1 (sarcasm)  .
They OP is still wet behind the ears, going in classes alone, and asking for honest advice. All you do is put down. Get a life, dude. I'm sure you're an amazing, incredible, miracle-working teacher, but could you please in all your graciousness not flaunt it in the OP's face? There's gotta be something better to do...? |
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Tobias
Joined: 02 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 12:43 am Post subject: Send 'em out into the world |
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| gregoriomills wrote: |
....
I'm sure you're an amazing, incredible, miracle-working teacher, but could you please in all your graciousness not flaunt it in the OP's face? There's gotta be something better to do...? |
I'll continue on this thought...
To all you "miracle teachers" who claim you're Buddha's gift to TESOL, please send your students out into the world to work at the banks, bus stations, police stations, hotels, et al, will ya?
All these decades with these GREAT teachers working their magic in places like Korea, and I can't get a native Korean, Thai, whatever, to understand me enough to sell me a bus ticket or even an ice cream cone. I've gotten tired of resorting to pointing and gesticulating to get what I need. I know there are many, many white teachers out there wearing halos, they're so damn "good", and they never miss an opportunity to claim they're the world's best. But can you guys send your students out to do the real jobs?
"I'll have one pancake breakfast, please. No, I said ONE. Jesus, you've been studying English for how many years and you still don't even know your numbers?"
Last edited by Tobias on Thu Mar 26, 2009 12:51 am; edited 1 time in total |
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loggerhead007
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 12:50 am Post subject: |
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No kiddin'. We're all on here to help each other out (I thought). I use silence and sometimes walk up and put my face inches away from theirs. Never show anger. Always smile and perhaps page through your text a minute or two and then look up and say"Oh, hello, shall we have class?" And if you can turn it around and make the kid look foolish, well you know how they feel about that. Experiment. Just keep your cool and act slightly amused. Works for me most of the time. Good luck.
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