Korean Job Discussion Forums

[phaedrus]

I was teaching this and a student said they read it is okay to use either. I agree some (although whom in essays). I still think proper English matters- but do ESL learners want to sound stilted?

[VanIslander]

It is the teaching in Canadian journalism textbooks, and common practice in that country's newsrooms, to forgo "whom" in favour of "who".

Why?

Because most English speakers don't use "whom" anymore.

So, as spoken English evolves, so does the media. Dictionaries are a bit slower to change, standardized tests even slower and your high school grammar teacher may never change (Mine never could accept that "impact" was becoming a verb).

Everytime you use "whom" you could just as well use "who". That's what the student probably meant.

(I suspect some British-educated folk will care to disagree, as they are inclined.)

[rapier]

The old forms of words can still be useful. "Whom" implies distance, formality, disdain, sarcasm, and a host of other things.
Sometimes i wonder if the English language is losing character by becoming simplified.

[ratslash]

who is informal, whom is not.

teach your kids who and use your judgement and teach anybody you think might need it whom.

[Falstaff]

Who and whom are leftover from the case based systems English once used. Who is used in the subject case, whom is used in the object case. So if you need to use the pronoun to refer to the subject of a sentence or the actor of a verb, you use "who". If the person has the action performed upon them, or is the object of a prepostion, you use "whom".

"To whom it may concern": The subject "it" concerns "whom".

"Who wrote this on the board?": "who" performed the action of writing.

"With whom are we going?": "whom" is the object of a preposition.

Having said this, the English language is rapidly changing. The distinction between who and whom is becoming much less important. Give it 20-40 more years, I doubt you'll ever hear whom used except in the phrase "to whom it may concern". So nitpicky grammar fiends like myself will need to find some other petty error to harp upon.

[kangnamdragon]

I disagree that "whom" is pompus/ formal.

"Whom" is objective. "Who" is subjective.

Even though many do not speak proper English, it is not right. And, it is not proper to say that speaking well is a sign of arrogance.

I believe we should teach proper English.

This will also help them with their TOEIC/TOEFL tests.

Respectfully submitted,

Kangnamdragon