|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
|
 Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:13 pm Post subject: Threat from dissident fenians in Ulster 'highest for years |
 |
|
Threat from dissident republicans in Ulster 'highest for seven years'
| Quote: |
� Catholic police are targets, says chief constable
� Army officers nearly killed by booby trap in car bomb
Sir Hugh Orde has confirmed that the level of threat from dissident republican terrorism in Northern Ireland is currently the highest since he became chief constable seven years ago.
The head of the Police Service of Northern Ireland said yesterday that it would be a "fair assessment" of the present security situation that the threat levels from the Real IRA and other groups are now at a critical level.
The Guardian has learned that one of the reasons why both the PSNI and MI5 have raised the threat level is due to the increased sophistication of the dissident republicans' bomb-making abilities.
Security sources in the Irish Republic told the Guardian this week that a recent car bomb left abandoned last month in Castlewellan, south Down contained a new type of anti-handling booby-trap device that almost killed a number of British Army bomb disposal officers.
The sources also revealed that a former Provisional IRA bomb maker from the south Down area who was responsible for a land mine attack that killed four locally-recruited British soldiers in a blast in the mid-1980s has joined the dissidents.
One security official said the device left in Castlewellan had "spooked" the British military and the wider security forces. He added that the short term strategy of groups like the Real and Continuity IRA is to target and kill Catholic members of the PSNI to deter others from joining the police service as well as to create maximum political embarrassment for Sinn F�in.
"What they dearly want is to see a scenario where a leading Sinn F�in figure is pictured or filmed walking behind the coffin of a dead Catholic PSNI officer. Then the dissidents can point and say that their former comrades have truly joined the establishment," the sources said.
etc etc |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
it's full of stars
Joined: 26 Dec 2007
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 2:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
That's an interesting article Big Bird. People also may be interested in learning about British involvement & sponshorship of violence in N. Ireland. Here's an interesting article that evaded your eagle eye even though it was on the same page.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/jan/28/northern-ireland-compensation
| Quote: |
Northern Ireland needs truth, not money
Instead of compensation, victims of the Troubles need Britain to admit the extent of its complicity in the violence
Beatrix Campbell guardian.co.uk, Wednesday 28 January 2009 17.30 GMT
Recognition � that's the most important word offered by the report published by the Consultative Group on the Past. The commission is right, but it is also wrong. By offering unionists and nationalists households �12,000 for their suffering it attracted unintended consequences: renewed airing of sectarian grief, another cry of virtuous hatred. But financial recognition or recompense is not what the victims have been asking for in Northern Ireland. Their greatest desire is for justice. They remain unrequited.
By offering households recognition of their personal suffering it is deflecting the debate about the political problem of the past: the cause of the conflict in Northern Ireland, and the conditions that made it the most intractable armed conflict in Europe, that cost proportionately more lives than the Americans lost in Vietnam.
The answer to that question is, it seems, to be franchised out to a hapless international elder, who will be obliged to do for Britain what it will not do for itself: ask what was going on in Northern Ireland.
This commission came to believe that Northern Ireland needed a truth and reconciliation process. But it hasn't delivered it. Northern Ireland's problem is not reconciliation but truth. The people are no longer at war and they have fashioned for themselves one of the most egalitarian and democratic models of governance anywhere in the world. What eludes them is the "true story". That belongs to the state itself. Without British sponsorship sectarianism might have faded. Equality and civil rights aren't that difficult to do. But in Northern Ireland Britain decided not to.
It condemned violence and at the time sponsored it; it penetrated all of the para militias; it enlisted loyalists, it steered their hitmen, supplied them with secret files, tolerated osmosis between the army and the loyalist militias. And when in 1987 the military men on both sides began to imagine a peaceful future, the security services reinvigorated the civil war by re-arming and modernising its proxies in the loyalist armies. It streamlined the targets and renewed the terror. So omnipotent was it that it crossed a line: it not only bent the law, it wanted to kill lawyers. Twenty years ago it orchestrated the assassination of the irrepressible defence solicitor Pat Finucane.
We know this because its counter-insurgency strategy left it vulnerable to exposure. By enlisting the loyalists as its auxiliaries it forfeited its monopoly of violence. And it lost control of the story. It was loyalists themselves who, with pride, revealed their dependence on British intelligence and ordinance. Their revelations have been confirmed by a few � very few - whistleblowers.
The D�il in Dublin asks, in vain, for Britain to cooperate by sharing official documents on sectarian bombings in the republic. Britain has refused. Northern Ireland has ended the violence that � without our permission � Downing Street, MI5 and the security services sustained. If Britain is to warrant its claims to be a peacemaker, and if Northern Ireland is to fully know itself, that open secret must become the national narrative.
� This article was amended on Tuesday 24 February 2009 to insert the word 'proportionately' in the sentence comparing numbers of lives lost in the Northern Ireland and Vietnam conflicts. |
Here's a link describing the British governement's collusion with terrorists to kill a leading lawyer.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/feb/17/northern-ireland-law-pat-finucane
I would ask if current affairs in the case of Ireland covers everything from the 12th century upto and including today? 
The CAIN website below is an informative website detailing many aspects of Northern Ireland- historical and current.
http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/index.html
This chapter will give people some background of the situation. It may be un-updated to very recent times, say within the last 5-10 years..
http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/othelem/facets.htm
| Quote: |
THE MANAGEMENT AND RESOLUTION OF CONFLICT
'The Northern Irish problem' is a term widely used in Northern Ireland and outside as if there were an agreed and universal understanding of what it means. It is more accurate, and more productive, to consider the issue, not as a 'problem' with the implication that a solution lies around the corner for anyone ingenious enough to find it, but as a tangle of interrelated problems:
There is a central constitutional problem: what should be the political context for the people of Northern Ireland? Integration with Britain? A united Ireland; independence?
there is a continuing problem of social and economic inequalities, especially in the field of employment;
there is a problem of cultural identity, relating to education, to the Irish language and to a wide range of cultural differences;
there is clearly a problem of security;
there is a problem of religious difference;
there is certainly a problem of the day-to-day relationships between the people who live in Northern Ireland. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JMO
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Daegu
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:58 am Post subject: |
|
|
| You don't have to bring up the historical context of the violence in Northern Ireland when reporting that dissident groups could be escalating the violence now. Sinn Fein need to come out for Catholics in the police. They are strong enough that it will not lose them enough votes to matter. After all who can they lose to? SDLP will hardly pick up the hardline republicans. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
it's full of stars
Joined: 26 Dec 2007
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:46 am Post subject: |
|
|
You're right, a histrical review is not needed and a lot more forgiveness is, it's just that the mention of anything about the occupied six counties gives me a spastic reaction and I start casting about for a brick to throw. Hardly the most mature of reactions I admit.
I agree with you about the lack of a credible competition. My gut instinct tells me that the Falls, Andy' Town, Poleglass and Twinbrook man in the street etc are unlikely to fall into step behind a 'Fenians in the PSNI campaign', at least for the moment. How would you package something like that, do you think it's likely?
What would be the slogan?
We've sold out to the Brits, now it's your turn |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 4:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| it's full of shyte wrote: |
| That's an interesting article Big Bird. People also may be interested in learning about British involvement & sponshorship of violence in N. Ireland. Here's an interesting article that evaded your eagle eye even though it was on the same page. |
My 'eagle eye' was busy reading up stuff for an assignment due on Monday. I'm sorry I didn't turn my 'eagle eye' to scour the archives of The Guardian for old articles (yes your article is a couple of months old and was not headlining in The Guardian's homepage) you would have found relevant, but I doubt that would benefit my grade. My 'eagle eye' was given the luxury of 'skim scanning' about 3 articles yesterday, and even that felt like over-procrastination, given my daily time constraints. My 'eagle eye' spotted this in a quick glance at The Guardian's homepage and I thought it might make a talking point.
My Irish Catholic father (rest his soul) would be very surprised to learn that I am now an active apologist for British transgressions in Northern Ireland.
Don't be such a f**king w*nker, mate. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
it's full of stars
Joined: 26 Dec 2007
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 8:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I am a wanker, no doubt about it, and my apologies for portraying you as a British apologist. And it is a talking point, that's why I'm talking about it.
I would have appreciated your point of view about the article. I am very conflicted about the whole N. Ireland-England-Rep. Ireland situation. I like the English and have lived there, and lived in the South too. But recently have not heard any open discussion about the situation, simply, nevermind, or that's the old days or other non commital crap.
I would like you to talk about it, what's your point of view? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
it's full of stars
Joined: 26 Dec 2007
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 7:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
The news articles below come from the http://republican-news.org website. I won't comment, I'll just post them because I'm very busy. Then I'll call people names and invoke the memory of a deceased relative (bless their heart) to save me from having an opinion. 
| Quote: |
New efforts to recruit spies
Republican Sinn Fein said approaches have been made by Special Branch and MI5 in an effort to get party members to turn informer.
On one such occasion, a member of RSF in north Armagh was approached by two plain-clothes individuals at the reception area of the PSNI station where he was attending on an unrelated matter.
�One of them asked if I was willing to help do something about the awful people in my area,� he said.
�They stated that these people could be family members, friends and neighbours, to which I made no reply. They offered to give me a contact number, asked how much money I required and when could we meet again. At that point I walked away without answering�.
On March 3, 2009 an attempt was made by MI5 to recruit a member of the Francis Hughes Cumann of RSF in Glasgow as an informer.
�The [MI5] agent made it clear to him that several members of the Francis Hughes Cumann of Republican Sinn Fein have been under surveillance by the authorities, and that they had his mobile number, a spokesman for the Cumann said.
�They asked the Cumann member if he would help them with gathering information on various people they had written down on a list. The Cumann member told them he was not prepared to give them any information regarding anyone. They then said they would contact him in the near future, before allowing him to leave the station.
�We urge all Republicans to be wary of any other such attempts by British �security forces� and report them to the Republican Movement immediately. Acts such as this only serve to strengthen our resolve�. |
| Quote: |
Tories to renegotiate peace deal after UUP pact
The British Conservative Party has said �Northern Ireland would be a better place� if politicians agreed to end power-sharing structures negotiated in the Good Friday Agreement.
The Tories recently formed an alliance with Reg Empey�s Ulster Unionist Party. Outgoing MEP Jim Nicholson will be the first Ulster Unionist to run in June�s European elections under the banner of the Ulster Conservatives and Unionists - New Force (UCU-NF).
Owen Paterson - the Tory spokesman for Ireland - said if the Conservatives form the next British government at Westminste they would renegotiate the 1998 Good Friday Agreement with all political parties in the north for �voluntary coalition�, which would permit unionist majority rule.
The suggestion has already been rejected by Sinn Fein�s Martin McGuinness.
The deputy First Minister made Sinn Fein�s position on voluntary coalition clear at last month�s Ard Fheis in Dublin.
Martin McGuinness told delegates: �Unionist majority rule is gone and gone forever. Like apartheid in South Africa it is consigned to the dustbin of history.�
The new electoral pact between Ulster Unionists and Tories includes plans to field joint candidates in elections to the Westminster parliament.
Mr Paterson said the merger would ensure unionist MPs elected under the new banner would play a central role in any future Conservative government.
He said the pact offered the North a chance to �move on from the age-old argument about the constitutional position�.
Close co-operation between the two parties, both of which will continue to exist separately, will help to end what UUP leader Reg Empey said was �a two-tier� union between Britain and the North of Ireland.
�By coming together in this fashion,� Empey said, �we are going hopefully to move quite significantly on to the ground of people discussing real, national political issues in Northern Ireland in a more normal way.�
However, in a late development today [Friday], the new alliance suffered a major setback when a Conservative member of a committee set up to increase co-operation between the two parties suddenly resigned.
Jeffery Peel launched a furious attack on the Ulster Unionists accusing them of �using� the Conservatives to get out of its financial crisis. |
| Quote: |
Bradley seeks to end justice hopes
The future of the controversial Eames/Bradley proposals for dealing with the �legacy� of conflict appears bleak after one of its authors lashed out at victims� groups and Sinn Fein for seeking an independent truth recovery process.
Denis Bradley, one of the heads of Britain�s Consultative Group on the Past ruled out any international function in dealing with the unanswered questions over British state killings and collusion. His panel instead offered twelve thousand pounds sterling to the families of all of those killed in the recent conflict, a suggestion which drew anger from unionists.
An independent, international process was not achievable, he insisted, calling for groups such as Relatives for Justice and the Omagh victims� group to cease their campaigns. He said it was �not fair� to the surviving victims and relatives to �raise expectations� in this regard.
The British government has yet to give any indication of what it plans to do with the report, or if it will implement any of the 31 recommendations.
Among them is the controversial plan to scrap any future public inquiries and investigations of any kind after five years.
Sinn Fein Dail leader Caoimhghin O Caolain TD and West Tyrone MP Pat Doherty both attended the meeting of the Dublin parliament�s Good Friday Agreement Implementation Committee, at which Bradley made his comments.
The Sinn Fein politicians set out their party�s concerns about the formation of the Consultative Group itself, the recommendation for a Legacy Commission and the need for a truly independent and international truth recovery process.
Pat Doherty MP, MLA said, �In common with many within the nationalist/republican community we had grave concerns about the formation of the Eames/Bradley Commission.
�This group was set up by the British Government, had its members appointed by the British Government, is funded by the British Government, had its terms of reference set by the British Government and finally the British Government retained the right to cherry pick which recommendations from its report that they wish to implement.
�As protagonists and active participants in the conflict the British Government are in no position to act as independent arbitrators in deciding the shape of any truth recovery process.
�Despite this Sinn Fein met with the Eames/Bradley Group and made a detailed submission. We set out number of benchmarks against which we would measure the report from the group.
�For us the report had to be about truth recovery and for such a truth recovery process to be successful it needed to be independent, victim centred, effective and international. The British State needs to be identified as protagonists and not innocent observers.�
Deputy O Caolain said, �The Consultative Group�s proposal for the creation of a Legacy Commission appointed by the British government is not the independent and international commission, established by a reputable international body like the UN, that Sinn Fein believes is necessary to properly address this issue.
�Vesting the legal authority for the Commission solely with the British government runs contrary to the bi-national and inter-governmental approach of the peace process and the Good Friday Agreement.
�We believe the flaw in the process has been demonstrated in the way the Consultative Group�s Report has been dealt with by the British government. As the originator of the Group it felt free to cherry pick the report.� |
| Quote: |
RE-MILITARISATION REVEALED
British Army special forces soldiers are back in the north of Ireland, according to PSNI Chief Hugh Orde.
Special British forces, such as the SAS, operated throughout the conflict and were responsible for multiple assassinations, shoot-to-kill ambushes and collusion with unionist paramilitaries.
Members of the Special Reconnaissance Regiment have now returned at Orde�s request.
It is claimed that the soldiers will not be on the streets, but will work behind the scenes.
Despite the highly publicised end of �Operation Banner� -- the British Army�s role in military operations in Ireland -- almost two years ago, several thousand British troops remain permanently stationed in the North.
Long-standing suspicions that Special forces were now working from the HQ of British military intelligence (MI5) in Holywood, Belfast, have now been confirmed.
Deputy First Minister and Sinn Fein MP Martin McGuinness has said it was the British Army�s forces that were a �major threat�.
He was responding to the comments of Hugh Orde, that the deployment was a response to an increased republican threat.
�The history of the north has shown that many of these forces have been as much a danger to the community as any other group,� said Mr McGuinness.
He said the decision was �stupid and dangerous� and �shaken his confidence� in the PSNI chief. Sinn Fein has raised the matter with the British Prime Minister and the Taoiseach Brian Cowen.
Yesterday [Thursday], there was anger among nationalist members of the Policing Board after it appeared that the board had been deceived by PSNI chief.
The SDLP said the decision to send in the regiment �raises the issue of who is in control�.
�At lunchtime on Thursday, the PSNI were telling the Policing Board the British Army would not be deployed save for bomb squad support,� said a statement.
�But by teatime we learn that British Army recon units are deployed.
�There is an immediate issue of who made this decision, when it was made and what the PSNI did not know or knew and did not tell the Policing Board.�
But the DUP backed the deployment of the Special Reconnaissance Regiment, and said it was a national [British] security issue and not a matter for the local population.
The announcement of the return of special forces followed the declaration by Orde that the �threat level� in the North was �severe� -- to mean he is expecting increased activity by republican armed groups.
Republicans viewed the statement, as well as an announcement of an increased deployment of British bomb-disposal teams, as disingenuous and propogandistic.
The statements were also linked by nationalists to efforts by so-called �securocrats� to justify continued high expenditures in the face of mounting financial pressure.
Sinn Fein�s Alex Maskey said reports of a raised threat level suggested elements of the Crown forces were attempting to talk up the �dissident� threat to justify more hardline policing and remilitarisation.
�For me there is clearly not a lot of substance to that, it�s a play on words and it�s giving fear to the public,� he said, warning against an agenda of �slipping back to the bad old ways�.
�Like many others, I was a victim of so-called British Special Forces, who colluded with Unionist Murder Gangs in attempts to murder me and my family. There can be no place for these types of groups within any civic and non-political policing service.�
Republican Sinn Fein said the move confirmed that the previous announcement of the end of �Operation Banner� was meaningless.
�Alex Maskey cannot feign indignation about the return of these malign forces, given his party�s open and unambivalent support for those who have made this decision,� a spokesman said.
�For British prime minister Gordon Brown to say in Washington that �Ireland is now at peace� is but a fairy tale.
�British troops never left the Occupied Six Counties and now reinforcements are arriving to shore up Unionist and British interest to the detriment of Irish interests and Irish freedom.� |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
it's full of stars
Joined: 26 Dec 2007
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 7:28 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
JUSTICE FOR MICKEY BO
Four loyalists were convicted on Wednesday of the savage sectarian killing of 15-year-old Catholic schoolboy Michael McIlveen in Ballymena, County Antrim in May 2006.
Three of the accused have been jailed for life for the murder of the popular red-haired boy, known by his nickname �Mickey Bo�.
Sentence on two other members of the killer gang, found guilty of murder and manslaughter respectively, has been adjourned until April.
After the 52-day trial, which was spread over four months, it took the Antrim Crown Court jury of eight women and three men just over seven hours to hand down their judgment.
McIlveen died in hospital on May 8th, 2006 from head injuries, the day after he was beaten with a baseball bat by loyalist youths who chased him and a friend.
This is the second jury to be told that McIlveen and his friend�s only crime was being �Catholics, no other reason�.
Him and his friends were set upon by loyalists after going looking for a Protestant friend. They chased him down an alleyway where he tried to talk himself out of trouble, only to be set upon. One of the gang, �nailed� him with a baseball bat, swinging it overhead, and also as if he were taking a golf swing.
The others, surrounding the defenceless teenager, �put the boot in�, and the hail of blows fractured his skull on both sides, causing blood clots to form in the brain.
The beating was described in court as a �brutal and savage� attack, carried out �for one reason and for one reason only� -- because he was Catholic.
After suffering catastrophic head injuries, the fatally injured boy was described as acting �mentally ill�, picking at the ground and unable to form words.
When they reach Michael�s home, his friend says he will phone an ambulance but again Michael says �it�s all right, my ma�s in there�.
His uncle says at one point, after going to bed, Michael �began to shake and began to kick out�.
An ambulance was called, but despite all efforts, he died from massive brain damage. His family was forced to make the heart-breaking decision to turn off his life-support machine.
At his funeral, the Bishop of Down and Connor Patrick Walsh told mourners that Michael�s name had been added to �the long, sad litany of those murdered by sectarian hatred�. Hundreds attended, with many young people turning out in football jerseys for the young Celtic fan with �Micky-Bo RIP� printed on the back.
Despite widespread outrage, loyalists later mocked the murder victim with a video, using images of the deceased with captions such as �Murder Inquiry: Please contact somebody who gives a F*ck - Three kicks to the head and I was dead Hi Ho Hi Ho - F*ck Mickey Bo�. An Ireland flag with the words, �*beep* Mickey Bo�, was hoisted and burned on a loyalist bonfire that summer.
Local Sinn F�in Assembly member Daithi McKay welcomed Wednesday�s verdict. He said that the murder had devastated the local community and it was important that justice was delivered.
�This murder not only had a devastating impact on Michael McIlveen�s friends and family but an entire community and it is vitally important that justice is seen to be done,� he said.
�Sectarianism is a terrible scourge on our society and the Criminal Justice system needs to ensure that justice is served and seen to be done. The case has no doubt been very traumatic for the family of Michael McIlveen who have conducted themselves in a very dignified manner throughout the proceedings.
�In the immediate aftermath of the murder schools from different backgrounds in the area came together and many people became involved in work to try and tackle sectarianism in Ballymena.
�This work should continue and be built upon to ensure that such a terrible crime never takes place here again.�
At the conclusion of the trial, McIlveen�s sister Jodie read a statement on behalf of the family.
�We now feel that justice has been done for Michael.
�We now want to take this time to thank the witness who came forward and told their story, and the police, prosecutors, friends and family. The McIlveen family sympathises with the families of the accused. Now the trial is over, now we can try and rebuild our lives.� |
| Quote: |
PSNI COLLUDE IN MOB ATTACK
Two men were treated in hospital for serious head injuries after a loyalist mob, including armed paramilitaries, attacked a republican commemoration in Coleraine last weekend - with the assistance of the police.
Four others were injured when over a hundred loyalists were allowed by the PSNI to enter an internment bonfire in Coleraine, County Tyrone.
PSNI police were seen moving their Land Rovers to allow the mob who carried handguns, hatchets, claw hammers, sticks and golf clubs to move in on the nationalist people in the Heights estate.
They were working to commmemorate the introduction of internment without trial in 1971, when hundreds of nationalists were rounded up by the British Crown forces and thrown in jail.
Sinn F�in representative Billy Leonard accused the PSNI of colluding with the loyalist attackers.
He said: �Coleraine saw some of the worst incidents in recent years and unionism, loyalism and the police must finally come to terms with their street and community arrogance in this town.
�For two hand guns to be openly displayed and nothing done is a total disgrace and an abdication of the police role.
�A nationalist lady was struck twice by police in the most thuggish way as she helped an injured relative. Nationalists had to jump walls, and seek the safety of houses; the houses were then attacked.
�Loyalists were obviously out to maximise injuries and convey their small town arrogance, and yet again the police colluded with them.�
He said people in the area were �understandably terrified�.
Leonard also appealed for threats levelled at nationalists and republicans to be lifted. Several people including a mother with three children have received notifications in recent weeks that they are under loyalist threat of attack.
He also called on local unionist representatives to stop �equivocating� on the issue of loyalist guns being used on Coleraine streets.
LIGONIEL
In another incident, a group guarding the site of a bonfire in north Belfast had their camper van torched in a late-night attack.
Two loyalists entered bonfire site in Ligoniel and tried to set fire to the vehicle while children and teenagers were asleep inside.
They also attempted to light the bonfire prematurely, ahead of the anniversary of the introduction of internment without trial in 1971 last weekend.
A teenager, who was inside the van but did not wish to be named, said he and his friends could have been killed.
�We�ve been expecting something to happen all week, but we never thought they would try to burn the camper van,� he said.
BALLYMENA
Meanwhile, republicans in Ballymena went ahead with a bonfire despite efforts by Sinn F�in and the local council to ban it.
The 20ft bonfire was smaller than planned after most of the bonfire material was suddenly removed last week, leading to angry confrontations between local republicans and Sinn F�in representatives.
Two members of the local community association turned out to support the bonfire. Mayn residents questioned the handling of five million pounds funding for the deprived Dunclug estate, where the event was organised.
Most Ballymena recreational facilities - the cinema, leisure centre and Superbowl - are in the Protestant part of town.
�The bonfire is all young people here have,� said resident Paul O�Neill.
�I�m not pro-bonfire - it�s something more part of loyalist than nationalist culture - but I�m angry when thousands of pounds of funding go to Eleventh of July loyalist bonfires in Ballymena, and we�re completely neglected. Sectarianism is rife here.�
In 2006, Catholic teenager Michael McIlveen was beaten to death by loyalists in Ballymena.
�On his anniversary three months ago, I was set upon by four carloads of loyalists as I walked home,� says O�Neill.
��Get the Fenian bastard!� they yelled. I was beaten with baseball bats and stabbed in the head.�
Another resident added: �Loyalist bands play the Sash near where Michael McIlveen was murdered, yet we�re not allowed a bonfire?� |
| Quote: |
PSNI loyalists caught on camera
Four PSNI members have been suspended after they were caught on camera singing sectarian songs and waving guns while joyriding in their patrol vehicles.
The PSNI�s admission that four members of its �elite� Armed Response Unit had been removed from their duties comes just days after PSNI Chief Hugh Orde applied to become the next head of London�s Metropolitan Police.
It is understood one of the men held the rank of sergeant. Another four officers have been �re-positioned�.
It is understood the men can be seen on footage from a mobile phone waving a gun out of a PSNI vehicle as it is driven at top speed before performing a high-speed handbrake turn.
The men can reportedly be heard singing anti-Catholic �war songs�.
The incident has highlighted failures in the policing reform program initiated by Tory MP Chris Patten under the 1998 Good Friday Agreement.
Policing Board chairman Sir Desmond Rea said: �Such alleged behaviour is completely unacceptable, transgresses the code of ethics and besmirches the reputation of the PSNI as a whole.�
Sinn F�in spokesperson on Policing issues Alex Maskey said that the PSNI investigation needed to be completed quickly and the results including disciplinary measures made public.
�For reasons of community confidence and good practice it is vital that this investigation is completed quickly and the results including disciplinary measures made public.
�If it is proven that these allegations are true then I am in no doubt that the public will expect those involved to be removed from the PSNI.� |
| Quote: |
Dismay at Holy Cross ruling
Britain�s highest court has denied that former RUC police chief Ronnie Flanagan failed to protect Catholic schoolgirls from degrading and inhumane treatment during the Holy Cross dispute.
The PSNI created a �corridor of hate� at Holy Cross girls� school in north Belfast for three months in 2001, with terrified Catholic children forced to run the gauntlet past a loyalist mob each day.
The hildren and their parents were subjected to terrifying levels of violence and intimidation before the confrontations finally ended in November 2001. Little or no attempt was made to protect the young children from the loyalists, who were seeking to shut a Catholic school in the area.
Paramilitaries and their supporters were allowed by the RUC to stand within inches of the schoolgirls and hurl excrement, urine, bottles and blast bombs, scream epithets and even display pornographic images to the children.
In 2004, the mother of one schoolgirl identified only as �E� took a legal challenge against the RUC�s failure to police the protest apprpriately.
The case reached the House of Lords in June after being rejected by the Court of Appeal in 2006.
In an extraordinary judgment yesterday, five law �lords� dismissed her appeal out of hand.
They said the events witnessed by the Holy Cross children were �obviously terrifying� but said there had been �precautions deemed necessary to enable them to get to school without physical harm�.
Speaking for the law lords, Baroness Hale of Richmond said the children�s experience could have been worse.
She went on: �Hindsight is a wonderful thing and no doubt the police have learned lessons from this whole experience.
�But in a highly charged community dispute such as this, it is all too easy to find fault with what the authorities have done when the real responsibility lies elsewhere.�
Lord Carswell said E�s case, which was supported by the Human Rights Commission, was �quite insufficient to establish that the course adopted was misguided, let alone unreasonable�.
�I am satisfied that the senior police officers did at all stages pay regard to the interests of the children, with particular concern for their physical safety.
�Moreover, the evidence points sufficiently clearly to the conclusion that the action taken was in fact in their best interests.
�I do not find any substance in this argument.�
The five also gratuitously denigrated the Northern Ireland Human Rights Commission, which it said had �wasted their time� by repeating arguments in its own submission.
The schoolgirl�s solicitor Fearghal Shiels, of Madden & Finucane Solicitors, said the case would now be brought to the European Court of Human Rights.
�It is difficult to reconcile the fact that the House clearly accepted that the children were subject to inhuman and degrading treatment, yet concluded that permitting a protest to take place which the police admitted was illegal, was upholding the rule of law.� |
| Quote: |
UDA HOLDS ON TO ARMS
The British government has confirmed that its Direct Rule Minister Paul Goggins and PSNI Chief Hugh Orde held talks with leaders of the UDA murder gangs on Monday night.
The UDA rejected an appeal to begin weapons decommissioning.
It is understood those present at Stormont Castle Buildings included Jackie McDonald, the so-called �brigadier� of the UDA in south Belfast, and other members of the UDA�s fractious six-member leadership.
Discussions focussed on the British government�s �window of opportunity� for the UDA to move on weapons decommissioning. In January, special amnesty legislation which allows paramilitaries to decommission without fear of facing arms charges is set to expire.
The UDA�s response to the new appeal to decommission was negative. The organisation claimed that unionist communities did not want decommissioning, and that it needed further financial incentives to support its move away from criminal and sectarian acts.
The British government�s �softly, softly� approach to their former death squads, 14 years after the Provisional IRA announced its ceasefire, has sparked anger from nationalists.
And in an unusual attack, Ken Maginnis, the former unionist MP for Fermanagh and South Tyrone, described Hugh Orde�s presence at the talks as �unbridled arrogance and patently idiotic�.
�I don�t care which tradition these people come from - disarmament is a political issue and no community should be left feeling that its chief constable and police service is compromised by involvement in a deal,� he said.
It also emerged this week that the PSNI is aware of the location of UDA and UVF arms dumps but is refusing to recover the weapons.
Nationalists have reacted angrily at the revelation amid fears that the weapons could be used at any time.
Admitting the situation existed, Minister Goggins refused to order that the weapons be seized, and instead focussed on decommissioning.
�I think the point is this -- loyalists should decommission,� he said. �They should do it as soon as possible.
�There is in place, of course, legislation that provides an amnesty at the moment, but that legislation is fast running out. It�s very important as we become a more normal society that they hand those weapons in and start leading law-abiding lives in the community.�
He denied there was political pressure on the PSNI to prevent any seizures, despite the news of the Stormont talks.
Sinn Fein�s Alex Maskey said the PSNI�s attitude is �unacceptable and quite shocking�.
�To most people it is very simple -- if you know where these weapons are -- then go and get them.�
He said decommissioning legislation �is no barrier to the PSNI recovering loyalist weaponry�.
�Indeed it is the function of the PSNI to recover these guns,� he added.
�The purpose of these weapons is to attack Catholics and protect organised crime rackets. Indeed, last year in Carrickfergus these very weapons were used to attack the PSNI.� |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 11:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| it's full of stars wrote: |
I am a wanker, no doubt about it, and my apologies for portraying you as a British apologist. And it is a talking point, that's why I'm talking about it.
I would have appreciated your point of view about the article. I am very conflicted about the whole N. Ireland-England-Rep. Ireland situation. I like the English and have lived there, and lived in the South too. But recently have not heard any open discussion about the situation, simply, nevermind, or that's the old days or other non commital crap.
I would like you to talk about it, what's your point of view? |
I think groups like the Real IRA and the Continuity IRA a bunch of f**king w@nkers. They're living in the past and swimming against the tide. I hope to see the ultimate Darwinian award handed out to them sometime very soon. C**ts. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BS.Dos.
Joined: 29 Mar 2007
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 12:19 am Post subject: |
|
|
I hope you don't use language like that in your assignment. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
it's full of stars
Joined: 26 Dec 2007
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 11:32 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Big_Bird wrote: |
| it's full of stars wrote: |
I am a wanker, no doubt about it, and my apologies for portraying you as a British apologist. And it is a talking point, that's why I'm talking about it.
I would have appreciated your point of view about the article. I am very conflicted about the whole N. Ireland-England-Rep. Ireland situation. I like the English and have lived there, and lived in the South too. But recently have not heard any open discussion about the situation, simply, nevermind, or that's the old days or other non commital crap.
I would like you to talk about it, what's your point of view? |
I think groups like the Real IRA and the Continuity IRA a bunch of f**king w@nkers. They're living in the past and swimming against the tide. I hope to see the ultimate Darwinian award handed out to them sometime very soon. C**ts. |
It's easy to hate, it's more difficult to work with your enemy. Which is what the peace prcess is all about-reconciling conflicting views. You on the other hand, seem to be a bit quick in handing out death sentences. Would you recommend a death sentence for a pedophile, or a muslim terrorist, a serial killer or a drunk driver? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
it's full of stars
Joined: 26 Dec 2007
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 12:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I'm conflicted, between accepting the status quo, which is a British Northern Ireland-and wanting an Ireland that incorporates the 32 counties. I don't wish to live in the past, and many times I have said to friends that it is time for Northern Ireland to move on, shake hands, forgive, and grow up. The Republic of Ireland seems to have moved on quite well.
One thing in favour of maintaining the status quo, is that eventually both Britain and Ireland will be subsumed into a wider European Union region, which may negate the old political squabbling (merely find new ones). Anyway, if you don't like the violence of the Real IRA and the Continuity IRA, what political party would you choose to align yourself with?
The SDLP http://www.sdlp.ie
| Quote: |
Our Vision Statement
Join us in our Vision: A Better Way to a Better Ireland
The SDLP�s vision is a reconciled people living in a united, just and prosperous new Ireland.
As the party of civil rights, the SDLP is working for an Ireland free from poverty, prejudice and injustice; a vibrant country of energy, enterprise and endeavour, where economic prosperity delivers better public services and greater opportunities for all.
The SDLP wants to build an Ireland where conflict, violence and sectarianism become footnotes to our past; where reconciliation, equality and inclusion are chapter headings in the new story we will write together. We will build a better Ireland where we truly cherish all the children of the nation equally.
The SDLP wants this generation and those that will follow to live in an Ireland that stands tall in the world as a champion of global justice, environmental protection & sustainable development; an Ireland that stands out as a beacon of hope for peace, democracy, human rights and respect for diversity. |
These boys don't throw bombs or shoot guns, maybe a little peaceful for you. What about a Protestant group, like the Progressive Unionist Party? At least they are allied to a paramiltary group.
http://www.pup-ni.org.uk/home/default.aspx
| Quote: |
The Progressive Unionist Party emerged from decades of under and mis-representation of the Unionist working class by traditional Unionist parties...
The Progressive Unionist Party is a labour orientated party, committed to achieving a new Northern Ireland, free from the mismanaged and stale politics of the past. The PUP are committed to developing an anti-sectarian and pluralist Northern Ireland, offering a progressive, alternative approach for the future. |
I'd always liked/respected David Ervine, who passed away in 2007. David was a member of the UVF before being arrested and found guilty of possession of explosives. He served 11 years before release and went on to become a staunch promoter of the Good Friday Agreement, and the inclusion of Sinn Fein in all party talks. He was a progressive politician.
You'll notice that at no point was I making threats or death wishes against anyone in this thread, maybe you should have a lie down in a dark room for a couple of days, and think if you are suited to living in a pluralistic society. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| it's full of stars wrote: |
| Big_Bird wrote: |
| it's full of stars wrote: |
I am a wanker, no doubt about it, and my apologies for portraying you as a British apologist. And it is a talking point, that's why I'm talking about it.
I would have appreciated your point of view about the article. I am very conflicted about the whole N. Ireland-England-Rep. Ireland situation. I like the English and have lived there, and lived in the South too. But recently have not heard any open discussion about the situation, simply, nevermind, or that's the old days or other non commital crap.
I would like you to talk about it, what's your point of view? |
I think groups like the Real IRA and the Continuity IRA a bunch of f**king w@nkers. They're living in the past and swimming against the tide. I hope to see the ultimate Darwinian award handed out to them sometime very soon. C**ts. |
It's easy to hate, it's more difficult to work with your enemy. Which is what the peace prcess is all about-reconciling conflicting views. You on the other hand, seem to be a bit quick in handing out death sentences. Would you recommend a death sentence for a pedophile, or a muslim terrorist, a serial killer or a drunk driver? |
I don't have the energy to hate these idiots (whether they be proddy dogs or fenians). I'd prefer a world without them, but most regular posters on these boards will know I oppose the death penalty.
However, if any of these idiots were to be accidently blown up by one of their own bombs, I would not cry too many tears.
Why not direct your pompous preaching at them?
Secondly, I couldn't give a toss whether Ireland is comprised of 32 counties, or only 26, so long as each and every person on the island have equal rights and opportunities. When it comes down to it, it doesn't make a great deal of difference. It's merely nationalistic pride that makes a united Ireland meaningful. As you say, we are all being subsumed by the EU, so who gives a rat's arse? Not me. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
it's full of stars
Joined: 26 Dec 2007
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
So you started a thread you're not interested in? I agree, there are much more important things in the world, and N. Ire has a certain factor.
By the way, I think there is a direct connection between these 'dogs' and the equal rights that people now enjoy in northern Ireland. It wasn't due to uninterested half-hearted balls people like you post/believe in. People from both communities and from England laid down their lives in service to their countries, their ideologies, their communities.
The EU was a direct (ironic) result of nationalistic pride was it not? Countries decided to band together as a result of the last major war, and stop the fighting in Europe. And it's not all about nationalism in N.I. A lot of the conflicts in Belfast were very localised. One area-one housing estate, bordering on another, and youths or adults from either area catching others and beating them, throwing stones, blast bombs, smashing windows in houses. So you could say it was a conflict on a microscale, families, streets, roads, areas. Very tribal. And if you think there were no morals in any of that, you are wrong. Many people defended those they went to school with, worked with, played football with, loved.
Northern Ireland was a direct result of taking one religious group and planting them in a foreign environment. Causing 100s of years of trouble. (think of anywhere else in UK or EU that might be suffering problems due to a mass influx of a foreign religion?) Has the UK learned from that? That's what may be interesting, conflict resolution.
You said you weren't a British apologist, but you're doing a good job at oversimplifying and ridiculing a genuinely difficult situation.
Thanks for calling me preachy . |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 4:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
By dogs I meant 'proddy dogs' - surprised you haven't heard that term (though I said it tongue in cheek).
No, I don't believe the Irish Republican Army did anything that couldn't have been acheived much much sooner by different methods. In fact they only made the situation much worse (with the help of their vile loyalist equivalents and certain members of the RUC). Like me old dad always said, he agreed wholeheartedly with the IRA's cause and detested their methods.
The protestant community would been forced to 'behave themselves' long ago by other means, and civil rights would have evolved naturally through lawful methods. Yes, the Catholic community were faced with great oppression and injustice, and the RUC and the British Army behaved disgracefully. But Catholics in Ulster were not in the hopeless position of other societies, like say the Palestinians, and The Troubles blighted the life of far too many Catholics for far too long to make any of it worthwhile. Sorry but the guerrilla methods of IRA did more harm to the Catholics, at the end of the day, than the loyalist terrorists ever could have managed. I doubt you'll find much support for idiots like the Real IRA among those aged 30 and upwards. Only young hotheads will support that crap now.
The kind of discrimation meted out against Catholics just could not have been sustained into the eighties and particularly the nineties. Not in today's world. Eventually public pressure would have put an end to it. Not just the Irish public. The English public were never really educated about any of it, and if they had been, I think a great public of pressure would have been brought to bear by leftie English folk, for that matter. That was a resource a Catholic political movement could have tapped into.
I don't know what you are talking about when you talk about English laying down their lives for their ideology etc. Just bollocks. Members of the IRA were fighting for a cause, but almost all English soldiers had bugger all politcal insight into what they were doing and why. They just had the bad luck to posted there instead of somewhere else.
99% of the young English lads sent off to NI didn't know diddly squat about the situation. Straight out of inner city Manchester or East End London, and into the troubles. These lads didn't know what had hit them. Few of them knew bugger all about Irish history. There is a saying that English don't remember their history, and Irish can't forget. There's a lot of truth to that. If British lads on the frontline began to hate Irish Catholics, it was only because they soon learnt how Catholic paramilitaries hated them and most of them were no doubt bewildered by it all. They had no particular ideology. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
