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Troll_Bait
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Location: [T]eaching experience doesn't matter much. -Lee Young-chan (pictured)
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 Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 3:05 am Post subject: Korea ranked 136th out of 161 countries in speaking skills |
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crossmr
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Location: Hwayangdong, Seoul
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craash
Joined: 19 Feb 2006
Location: Locked, cocked, and ready to ROCK!
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| Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 3:33 am Post subject: |
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and one day - they might finally be able to speak the same dialect
( ar-gii vs air-gii and chon-don-hak-yor vs chooo-don-hak-yor)
and one day they might finally be so good at their own language that they will be able to understand foreigners who are speaking korean) |
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Ukon
Joined: 29 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 4:06 am Post subject: |
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More koreans take the test than other nations even if they have a low skill levels....leading to a lower average score....
A much more acurate assesment would bit a random group of citizens from each country and have them perform the TOEIC. Korean would likely be near the top in a scientifically done assessment.
I can't believe garbage like this get's printed... |
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Jane
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 6:24 am Post subject: |
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| Ukon wrote: |
More koreans take the test than other nations even if they have a low skill levels....leading to a lower average score....
A much more acurate assesment would bit a random group of citizens from each country and have them perform the TOEIC. Korean would likely be near the top in a scientifically done assessment.
I can't believe garbage like this get's printed... |
A larger number of respondents means a more accurate result.
This may not be an empiracal study, but Korea has never done particularly well and I doubt this rating is in anyway a major outlier.
Have you spoken to Scandinavians or Singaporeans, for example? Their spoken English can't be compared to Koreans' English.
In fact I was approached by some lost Russians downtown today and their English was markedly better than the locals here. |
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bogey666
Joined: 17 Mar 2008
Location: Korea, the ass free zone
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| Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 6:32 am Post subject: |
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in fairness, it's not really fair to compare Koreans to Europeans, even Russians.
it's twice (or more) as hard for them to learn English, because of the marked difference between the languages (as opposed to members of the Indo-European family tree) |
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Ginormousaurus
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
Location: 700 Ft. Pulpit
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| Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 6:45 am Post subject: |
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| craash wrote: |
and one day - they might finally be able to speak the same dialect
( ar-gii vs air-gii and chon-don-hak-yor vs chooo-don-hak-yor)
and one day they might finally be so good at their own language that they will be able to understand foreigners who are speaking korean) |
Umm...what? |
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bobbybigfoot
Joined: 05 May 2007
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 6:54 am Post subject: |
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When it comes to English, Korea is RIDICULOUS.
It's shameful really. They force their children to go to English hagwons for up to 9 hours a week (on top of all the other stuff), to learn English from people who aren't fluent, while knowingly (and unknowingly) teaching these kids to disrespect those who are fluent.
It's like forcing a kid to roll a ball up a mountain and wondering why he can't get to the top. Meanwhile everyone else is going around the mountain and getting to the other side just fine. Worse, Koreans have been told REPEATEDLY that going up the mountain is the wrong approach.
But nope, they're Koreans and they know best.
So we cash the cheques and watch this ridiculous sideshow.
C'est la vie. |
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coralreefer_1
Joined: 19 Jan 2009
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| Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 7:23 am Post subject: |
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I am not a language teacher and proclaim no knowledge of the subject of teaching English whatsoever...
However, as the casual outsider looking in, considering that Korean students begin English education at early as kindergarten (what real kindergarten does not have a native who comes by at LEAST once a week) I am surprised to see that Korea has so many resources(native teachers) available for English education, and vast amount of money is spent yet when it comes to communication, many fall behind.
I think (again, not very informed on the subject so feel free to correct me) that Korean standards concerning English are more geared to passing such tests that students are basically test-taking machines, yet when it comes to speaking, they are very lacking.
From conversations with others who are teachers, natives are mostly reserved for children. By the time students are old enough to actually study with real intent (high school) their focus is grammar/writing/vocab..and everything else but actual spoken communication, and their teacher is a Korean...with the intent of passing a test with little focus on actual communication skills.
At my university I must take an English class which is required for graduation from my department. Even though I am a native speaker I must take the class along with everyone else (which I find totally fair)
However I am surprised that so many Koreans in that class, who have been exposed to English education for so long have such low skill. When it comes to speaking/sentence formation and the like, the other foreign students whom are Chinese/Vietnamese have better speaking skill than 95% of the Koreans in the class, and they come from countries that do not offer the same kind of benefits to foreign teachers, at least in the days that these now college aged kids from China/Vietnam were learning English. |
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ajgeddes
Joined: 28 Apr 2004
Location: Yongsan
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| Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 7:32 am Post subject: |
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| Jane wrote: |
| Ukon wrote: |
More koreans take the test than other nations even if they have a low skill levels....leading to a lower average score....
A much more acurate assesment would bit a random group of citizens from each country and have them perform the TOEIC. Korean would likely be near the top in a scientifically done assessment.
I can't believe garbage like this get's printed... |
A larger number of respondents means a more accurate result.
This may not be an empiracal study, but Korea has never done particularly well and I doubt this rating is in anyway a major outlier.
Have you spoken to Scandinavians or Singaporeans, for example? Their spoken English can't be compared to Koreans' English.
In fact I was approached by some lost Russians downtown today and their English was markedly better than the locals here. |
Yes, but what he is saying is that other countries don't have as large a number of respondents, so it isn't fair to compare. |
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Greekfreak
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 7:39 am Post subject: |
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| Relax, people... read the fine print. The worse they score, the more they want us. The plan is working like a charm. |
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harlowethrombey
Joined: 17 Mar 2009
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 7:43 am Post subject: |
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| ajgeddes wrote: |
| Jane wrote: |
| Ukon wrote: |
More koreans take the test than other nations even if they have a low skill levels....leading to a lower average score....
A much more acurate assesment would bit a random group of citizens from each country and have them perform the TOEIC. Korean would likely be near the top in a scientifically done assessment.
I can't believe garbage like this get's printed... |
A larger number of respondents means a more accurate result.
This may not be an empiracal study, but Korea has never done particularly well and I doubt this rating is in anyway a major outlier.
Have you spoken to Scandinavians or Singaporeans, for example? Their spoken English can't be compared to Koreans' English.
In fact I was approached by some lost Russians downtown today and their English was markedly better than the locals here. |
Yes, but what he is saying is that other countries don't have as large a number of respondents, so it isn't fair to compare. |
This sounds like one of those 'happiness' indexes where they interview a few people in each country and then declare that country 'happy!' or 'sad!'
So if the 10 best English speakers in Mongolia aced this test while Koreans flooded in with several thousand who are quite low level their scores are going to suffer considerably.
Besides, does anyone really butcher the language more than the Scots?
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Ultimo Hombre
Joined: 13 Oct 2008
Location: BEER STORE
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| Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:57 am Post subject: |
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| coralreefer_1 wrote: |
However I am surprised that so many Koreans in that class, who have been exposed to English education for so long have such low skill. When it comes to speaking/sentence formation and the like, the other foreign students whom are Chinese/Vietnamese have better speaking skill than 95% of the Koreans in the class, and they come from countries that do not offer the same kind of benefits to foreign teachers, at least in the days that these now college aged kids from China/Vietnam were learning English. |
I've met Filipinos who have had so little education and they learned to speak English perfectly. I think they expose them to half a day of lessons in English starting in first grade or some shit. It's amazing how slow and stubborn seems to be the pace here. |
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betchay
Joined: 23 Aug 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Ultimo Hombre wrote: |
| coralreefer_1 wrote: |
However I am surprised that so many Koreans in that class, who have been exposed to English education for so long have such low skill. When it comes to speaking/sentence formation and the like, the other foreign students whom are Chinese/Vietnamese have better speaking skill than 95% of the Koreans in the class, and they come from countries that do not offer the same kind of benefits to foreign teachers, at least in the days that these now college aged kids from China/Vietnam were learning English. |
I've met Filipinos who have had so little education and they learned to speak English perfectly. I think they expose them to half a day of lessons in English starting in first grade or some shit. It's amazing how slow and stubborn seems to be the pace here. |
I'm a Filipino and we start learning English in school from the first grade just for an hour every school day and we don't attend private English institutes. Those who have the money to attend private schools are immersed in the language since all subjects (excluding Filipino) are taught in English in those schools. In public schools, English is taught only for an hour.
At home, we usually speak our native language but we're exposed to English television shows without subtitles. English is also one of our official languages. |
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Ilsanman
Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Location: Bucheon, Korea
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| Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Their troubles with English study comes 90% from attitude. This grungingly 'I have to learn it but I don't want to' attitude does them no favours. |
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