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Toronto
Joined: 26 Nov 2007
Location: Seoul - Area
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 Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 10:37 pm Post subject: Wage Gap Between Professors to Widen |
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Does anyone know how to find out about your evaluations and if we count?
At my old school i used to do pretty good and i think i can qualify. Anybody ideas on where to look who to contact?
[url]http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2009/04/117_42623.html[/url]
Wage Gap Between Professors to Widen
By Kang Shin-who
Staff Reporter
Universities are moving to pay more to professors who receive high lecture-evaluation marks from their students, distancing themselves from the seniority-based pay system.
Hanyang University will provide its faculties with different incentives ranging from 1 million won ($746) to 3 million won according to the evaluation results on their lectures. Those ranked in the top 10 percent will receive 3 million won.
Dongguk University, which started to disclose assessments of their professors by students last year, will increase incentives for professors who gain high scores.
According to the Buddhist university, it will group its professors into four categories according to their performances in lecturing, research, contribution to school administration and raising donation.
Those belonging to the No.1 group, or top 15 percent, will get as much as 12 million won in incentives. No incentives will be guaranteed to the bottom group faculties.
In addition, part-time professors who are consecutively ranked in the bottom 10 percent with regards to their lecture quality will face dismissal.
Chung-Ang University will also use lecture evaluation by students to determine professor pay levels. In the case of Yonsei University, 2 million won will be offered to ``star lecturers'' and the outstanding performers will receive bonus scores for their personnel management.
Sogang University has given professors in the top evaluation bracket will get favors in rehiring and promotion. Those failing to gain minimum scores will be exempted from tenure.
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bassexpander
Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Location: Someplace you'd rather be.
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| Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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This is less about the students or providing incentives, and more about finding unique ways for the university to save money.
Some of the best teachers aren't necessarily your favorites. |
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cdninkorea
Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 12:32 am Post subject: |
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| Does this apply to foreign professors as well, I wonder? |
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bluelake
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 12:47 am Post subject: |
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| Extremely bad idea. Student evals are nothing more than popularity contests. Average university students, other than their personal feelings, have no qualifications to judge professors. I've known some profs who were extremely popular with their students, but couldn't teach their way out of a paper bag; on the other hand, I've known some very effective profs who often received mediocre evals. Most of them made their students work for their grades, which often doesn't help in popularity contests. Unless someone is qualified to evaluate, their evaluations shouldn't be used to determine someone else's pay (or at least they should not be the prime method for determining it). Unfortunately, here in Korea, it is often the main determining factor for promotion, salary increase, or even keeping one's job. |
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bassexpander
Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Location: Someplace you'd rather be.
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 12:58 am Post subject: |
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| bluelake wrote: |
| Extremely bad idea. Student evals are nothing more than popularity contests. Average university students, other than their personal feelings, have no qualifications to judge professors. I've known some profs who were extremely popular with their students, but couldn't teach their way out of a paper bag; on the other hand, I've known some very effective profs who often received mediocre evals. Most of them made their students work for their grades, which often doesn't help in popularity contests. Unless someone is qualified to evaluate, their evaluations shouldn't be used to determine someone else's pay (or at least they should not be the prime method for determining it). Unfortunately, here in Korea, it is often the main determining factor for promotion, salary increase, or even keeping one's job. |
Agreed.
I think this will only lower the quality of the universities in question overall. |
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harlowethrombey
Joined: 17 Mar 2009
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 1:23 am Post subject: |
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| bassexpander wrote: |
This is less about the students or providing incentives, and more about finding unique ways for the university to save money.
Some of the best teachers aren't necessarily your favorites. |
Second that. Who's going to get higher marks, the Prof. who is actually a strict, fair grader and forces his/her kids to learn physics or the one who lets them watch episodes of Gossipgirl while he/she browses Gmart?
I predict next year's 'champion' teacher.
Mr. Kim: 5 classes a week in 'communications'.
Lesson Planning: Prints 4th grade worksheets off ESL.com
Classroom Management: When he's not too hungover he likes to hit on some of the more comely female students.
Student assessment: a one page paper written the week before finals.
Contribution to the university: Is the nephew of an exec. at Samsung.
Pay Scale: Bump and tenured! |
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anynag
Joined: 01 Jan 2009
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 1:49 am Post subject: |
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| cdninkorea wrote: |
| Does this apply to foreign professors as well, I wonder? |
Only as a means to show us the door sooner if our evaluation scores aren't up to expectations.  |
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inkoreaforgood
Joined: 15 Dec 2003
Location: Inchon
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 3:10 am Post subject: |
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| bassexpander wrote: |
| bluelake wrote: |
| Extremely bad idea. Student evals are nothing more than popularity contests. Average university students, other than their personal feelings, have no qualifications to judge professors. I've known some profs who were extremely popular with their students, but couldn't teach their way out of a paper bag; on the other hand, I've known some very effective profs who often received mediocre evals. Most of them made their students work for their grades, which often doesn't help in popularity contests. Unless someone is qualified to evaluate, their evaluations shouldn't be used to determine someone else's pay (or at least they should not be the prime method for determining it). Unfortunately, here in Korea, it is often the main determining factor for promotion, salary increase, or even keeping one's job. |
Agreed.
I think this will only lower the quality of the universities in question overall. |
Agreed and agreed.
The worst profs will just start sucking up to their students, handing out A+ grades left and right. At least that's what the crappy profs at my school do. |
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justaguy
Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Location: seoul
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 4:35 am Post subject: |
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| anynag wrote: |
| cdninkorea wrote: |
| Does this apply to foreign professors as well, I wonder? |
Only as a means to show us the door sooner if our evaluation scores aren't up to expectations. |
Especially if you have been there a while and the school would like to shed your high salary for a lower paid newbie. |
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Xuanzang
Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Location: Sadang
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 4:42 am Post subject: |
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| bassexpander wrote: |
| bluelake wrote: |
| Extremely bad idea. Student evals are nothing more than popularity contests. Average university students, other than their personal feelings, have no qualifications to judge professors. I've known some profs who were extremely popular with their students, but couldn't teach their way out of a paper bag; on the other hand, I've known some very effective profs who often received mediocre evals. Most of them made their students work for their grades, which often doesn't help in popularity contests. Unless someone is qualified to evaluate, their evaluations shouldn't be used to determine someone else's pay (or at least they should not be the prime method for determining it). Unfortunately, here in Korea, it is often the main determining factor for promotion, salary increase, or even keeping one's job. |
Agreed.
I think this will only lower the quality of the universities in question overall. |
How much lower can they go? Post secondary education in this country is already a degree mill. Guess some of us will find out first hand (those working at a university. |
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bluelake
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 4:58 am Post subject: |
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| I've seen first-hand what a crock student evals are. As an example, students who dropped a class early on in the semester, yet were still registered in the class, could still "vote" (that's what it really is). If they dropped because they didn't like a prof, they often would bomb that person on the eval (all lowest points straight on down); it is very obvious when they even did it for the questions that ask "Is attendance taken on time?" when the prof does so each class without fail and "Is the class conducted in English?" |
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Xuanzang
Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Location: Sadang
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 5:08 am Post subject: |
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| bluelake wrote: |
| I've seen first-hand what a crock student evals are. As an example, students who dropped a class early on in the semester, yet were still registered in the class, could still "vote" (that's what it really is). If they dropped because they didn't like a prof, they often would bomb that person on the eval (all lowest points straight on down); it is very obvious when they even did it for the questions that ask "Is attendance taken on time?" when the prof does so each class without fail and "Is the class conducted in English?" |
The schools that let turn classrooms into ratemykoreanprofessor.com are pathetic. The scary thing is that students "expect success without the requisite effort," and this will be carried into the workforce when they graduate. I dont want to sound too negative but I often wonder what skills Korean graduates bring out of university if they dont really have to work hard to earn marks.
I`ve read that going to class earns you a C and answering questions or kissing professor`s ass earns an B+ to A.
bluelake any thoughts? |
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bluelake
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 5:22 am Post subject: |
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| Xuanzang wrote: |
| bluelake wrote: |
| I've seen first-hand what a crock student evals are. As an example, students who dropped a class early on in the semester, yet were still registered in the class, could still "vote" (that's what it really is). If they dropped because they didn't like a prof, they often would bomb that person on the eval (all lowest points straight on down); it is very obvious when they even did it for the questions that ask "Is attendance taken on time?" when the prof does so each class without fail and "Is the class conducted in English?" |
The schools that let turn classrooms into ratemykoreanprofessor.com are pathetic. The scary thing is that students "expect success without the requisite effort," and this will be carried into the workforce when they graduate. I dont want to sound too negative but I often wonder what skills Korean graduates bring out of university if they dont really have to work hard to earn marks.
I`ve read that going to class earns you a C and answering questions or kissing professor`s ass earns an B+ to A.
bluelake any thoughts? |
I suppose it would depend upon the school and the prof, but most have at least set grading guidelines. At my last university, the grading rules for our dept. were set at max. 30% A, 40% A+B and MINIMUM 30% C and lower. Some schools have very strict policies (the computer will kick back anything over a max), while some are rather lax. The classes would also have stated percentages, with attendance accounting for some percentage (probably around 10-20%); that, in itself, would not get someone a C, but with a modicum of effort more, students can often at least scrape by with a C and with a reasonable amount of effort, could even get into the B range. In my classes, and those of most of my colleagues, a student had to be rather outstanding to get an A, and I've had classes where nobody earned one. |
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anynag
Joined: 01 Jan 2009
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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| justaguy wrote: |
| Especially if you have been there a while and the school would like to shed your high salary for a lower paid newbie. |
Considering many schools don't pay much extra for experience anyway, they're not really saving much money on salary. Where the savings comes in however, tends to be measured in terms of the amount of BS (e.g., extra duties, teaching hours, special projects) they can pile on to a newbie that a veteran might otherwise resist. By the time a newbie figures out what's going on, another newbie is hired to take his or her place. |
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HapKi
Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Location: TALL BUILDING-SEOUL
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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| We have student evals at our school, and I agree that they are a bad idea at getting anything accurate about quality teaching and teachers. Especially since, students are very bad at giving helpful feedback. We have about 8 criteria (teacher on time, tests are fair, teaching is relevant to the course, etc..). In almost all cases it's a straight 555555, or 444444 across the line. And then you see that one line of 111111. Now that tells me that either they got their 1's and 5's mixed up, in which case they should be dropped from the averaging, or they really have it in for the teacher, in which they should also be dropped from the averaging. Either way, when you are all 4's and 5's, and then see 1's stand out, it's going to hurt you unfairly. |
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