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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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 Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 12:37 pm Post subject: Obama�s missed opportunity |
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http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fpcomment/archive/2009/04/10/lawrence-solomon-obama-s-missed-opportunity.aspx
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No country on Earth is more responsible for the abolition of slavery than the United States of America. Barack Obama�s blackening of America�s past � he repeatedly referred in his European trip this week to America�s �darker periods� of slavery without acknowledging Americas redemption through its abolition � did America an injustice and cost him a precious opportunity to promote security in vulnerable regions. Ironically, Obama repeated his references to slavery in Turkey, the very nation more responsible than any on Earth for the institutionalization of slavery.
Of the countries that Obama visited in his diplomatic tour of Europe, Turkey, which he courted purposefully, is the most consequential. Without Turkey � the only conduit by which Central Asia�s natural gas can reach Europe � Germany and other EU countries will remain dependant on Russia for their energy supplies, and thus incapable of fully exercising their sovereignty.
The Central Asian energy producing countries, meanwhile, will return to Russian domination without Western export markets. The vital importance to the West of fastening Turkey to its sphere of influence explains why Obama courted Turkey by, for example, supporting its aspiration to join the European Union.
But another part of Obama�s courtship � his attempt to soften America�s image by dwelling on Americas past failings � could backfire. For one, Turkey�s slave past is far more extensive than that of America. Turkey needs no reminder that it has no less to live down than the United States, any more than it would welcome a reminder of the Armenian genocide. For another, Turkey does need a reminder of Western idealism, and assurances that it did not err a century ago when it broke with Orientalism and the Islamic state to embrace Western values.
Throughout most of the world, and throughout much of human history, slavery was the norm, whether in great civilizations such as that of the Chinese and the Romans or in remote tribal societies in Africa and the Americas. The Turkish empires of the Seljuks, and especially the Ottomans � one of the world�s greatest dynasties � did more than any others to institutionalize slavery throughout a highly structured society. Slaves � most often white Christians � not only performed menial work but formed crack fighting forces, served in the bureaucracy and, of course, sumptuously supplied the sultan�s harems.
Constantinople�s slave market was the world�s largest. Slavery was so entrenched in Turkey that it continued into the 20th century; not until 1933, a decade after it had become a secular republic, would Turkey ratify the 1926 League of Nations convention on the suppression of slavery. In all, slavery thrived in Turkey for a millennium.
The contrast with America could not be more stark. Even before the United States of America was founded in 1789, the American colonies were a hotbed of opposition to slavery. Pennsylvania�s Quakers� first declaration against slavery was signed in 1688 (it would be another century before British Quakers started the British abolition movement, in 1783; William Wilberforce, the U.K. evangelical and parliamentarian often credited with stopping the slave trade, began his opposition to slavery in 1787).
Rhode Island limited slave trading in 1774, Vermont�s 1777 constitution abolished slavery, followed by laws to emancipate slaves in Massachusetts and Pennsylvania in 1780 and Connecticut in 1784. By the time George Washington was elected the first president of the United States, abolition movements pervaded all states and territories.
Moreover, the leaders of the abolition movement were not fringe activists but establishment elites, including America�s founding fathers. John Jay and Alexander Hamilton founded in 1785 the New York Society for Promoting the Manumission of Slaves, and Protecting Such of Them as Have Been, or May be Liberated, and Benjamin Franklin in 1787 became president of the Society for Promoting the Abolition of Slavery and the Relief of Negroes Unlawfully Held in Bondage. The U.S. Constitution itself included a provision banning the importation of slaves within 20 years.
By 1807, the United States had prohibited slave trading with Africa. In another half-century, after a civil war waged in good part over slavery, the United States had emancipated all slaves through the 13th amendment to the United States Constitution. No country of slave owners before or since would so quickly overthrow an established slave-owning order. Along the way, much of the Western world abolished slavery, often inspired by the example set by the U.S.
The American democracy�s swift consignation of slavery to the dustbin of history, and the American role in ending a universal scourge that, until recent times, was unrecognized as an evil, is a story Barack Obama could have told with conviction, reigniting the American ideal in Europe and reassuring Turks of their wisdom a century ago in choosing Western values.
Instead, in his description of slavery and of other wrongs, President Obama has become the face of a kinder, gentler, apologetic America. Whether this new America can help a Turkey torn between its Western and Islamic factions, a Central Asia unable to export energy and a Europe without an alternative energy supplier to Russia, will be seen soon enough. |
What is this supposed to accomplish? |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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Obama visited Turkey so he might later play it off Europe.
Germany totally snubbed the US. They won't pursue a stimulus package, so now they can just mooch off ours. The rest of Europe is not going to bother to do what Germany won't.
From the article:
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Without Turkey � the only conduit by which Central Asia�s natural gas can reach Europe � Germany and other EU countries will remain dependant on Russia for their energy supplies, and thus incapable of fully exercising their sovereignty.
The Central Asian energy producing countries, meanwhile, will return to Russian domination without Western export markets. The vital importance to the West of fastening Turkey to its sphere of influence explains why Obama courted Turkey by, for example, supporting its aspiration to join the European Union. |
Also, we have the issue of an Iraqi withdrawal.
The US puts Turkey on center stage
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| Obama has aimed to capitalize on the positive noises coming out of Ankara, including tuse of Turkish soil during the US withdrawal from Iraq. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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| So go to the Sith and talk shit about your own civilization? This will solve energy issues? |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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| and cost him a precious opportunity to promote security in vulnerable regions |
I don't see that at all. In fact, the whole essay makes no real sense in the context of that statement. Obama was supposed to say, "Hey Turkey! Congrats on following the West 50 years later"? I don't see how that would have gone over well.
The writer sounds like a hypersensitive dolt with an ax to grind. Dollars to donuts the writer would not have agreed with anything Obama said.
Turkey is a major player in that part of the world. Our relations have soured and Obama needs to repair those relations if he can. He's made a good start with that first interview back in January and his trip to Turkey. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| So go to the Sith and talk shit about your own civilization? This will solve energy issues? |
No, its not really relevant. He's just trying to avoid appearing hypocritical and holier-than-thou.
Yes, America should be congratulated for defeating slavery, but as we've seen before, most Americans don't view the war as being about slavery. That's largely b/c acknowledging that would be embarrassing to the South. It was a war over Constitutional doctrine, we are told (and that is such a crock; the Constitutional doctrine was the 3/5ths Compromise, i.e. slavery). As a result, Americans are educated to look at that period of bloodshed with regret, rather than understanding that it took great, great courage to kill a million Americans to defeat slavery.
But Obama is American, so he doesn't even recognize the most shining moment in American history for what it is. Its not his liberalism, either. Remember, conservatives and liberals alike are taught that it was a war over States' Rights. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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| It was a war over Constitutional doctrine, we are told (and that is such a crock |
To quote Ronald Reagan, "There you go again!" |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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| No, its not really relevant. He's just trying to avoid appearing hypocritical and holier-than-thou. |
Indeed. The National Post editorialist is not someone I would want writing my speeches if I were trying to convince people in another country to adopt a particular course of action.
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| The writer sounds like a hypersensitive dolt with an ax to grind. |
He's trying to argue that western values are superior, which is fine insofar as it goes. But he trips himself up by then trying to argue that openly stating this would be good diplomacy in Turkey.
From the article:
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For another, Turkey does need a reminder of Western idealism, and assurances that it did not err a century ago when it broke with Orientalism and the Islamic state to embrace Western values.
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I wonder how much it would do for the cause of gay-marriage in the US if the Prime Minister of Canada were to go there and tell American audiences that they need to be more "Canadian" in their approach to marriage equality. |
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pkang0202
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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Actually, in all the history classes I took in the US, they all hammered the point that the Civil War was NOT about abolishing slavery.
The North did NOT attack the South because they had slaves. Slavery was a major issue, but if you look at the history during that time period, the North was happy with keeping the status quo. |
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harlowethrombey
Joined: 17 Mar 2009
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| mises wrote: |
| So go to the Sith and talk shit about your own civilization? This will solve energy issues? |
No, its not really relevant. He's just trying to avoid appearing hypocritical and holier-than-thou.
Yes, America should be congratulated for defeating slavery, but as we've seen before, most Americans don't view the war as being about slavery. That's largely b/c acknowledging that would be embarrassing to the South. It was a war over Constitutional doctrine, we are told (and that is such a crock; the Constitutional doctrine was the 3/5ths Compromise, i.e. slavery). As a result, Americans are educated to look at that period of bloodshed with regret, rather than understanding that it took great, great courage to kill a million Americans to defeat slavery.
But Obama is American, so he doesn't even recognize the most shining moment in American history for what it is. Its not his liberalism, either. Remember, conservatives and liberals alike are taught that it was a war over States' Rights. |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abolition_of_slavery_timeline
There are some other countries that 'defeated' slavery (again you cant defeat a noun) long before America and they might take exception to that statement.
And it wasn't 'America' that defeated slavery, it was the army of the North fighting against the other half of the citizens of the same country.
Considering that at the time when we fought our civil warm much of the 'civilized' western world had already outlawed slavery this statement sounds quite jingoistic and ill-informed. I mean Mexico only beat us out on abolishing slavery by more than 30 years.
Thus, a civil war over a nasty subject that most of the rest of the world had already agreed was barbaric, that resulted in the deaths and destruction of nearly half the country is not so much a 'shining moment' in the same vein as, say Women's Sufferage, the Appollo Program, the writing of the Bill of Rights or the Constitution. Etc.
So, once again, please, please remove your location information. You're embaressing the rest of us. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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Thus, a civil war over a nasty subject that most of the rest of the world had already agreed was barbaric, that resulted in the deaths and destruction of nearly half the country is not so much a 'shining moment' in the same vein as, say Women's Sufferage, the Appollo Program, the writing of the Bill of Rights or the Constitution. Etc.
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I basically agree with this; no one deserves a lot of praise for stopping something that they should not have been doing in the first place.
I will read into the record that Britian, for all its highflown opposition to slavery, continued to buy slave-produced southern American cotton right up until the Civil War. To some extent, I think the abolition of British slavery(which was not complete until 1833) had a lot to do with the British simply realizing that their economic interests no longer required the direct ownership of slaves.
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| So, once again, please, please remove your location information. You're embaressing the rest of us. |
I'm not an American, but if I were, I don't think that I would find Kuros a particularly embarrassing example of my countrymen. Just my own observation. |
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harlowethrombey
Joined: 17 Mar 2009
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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Not Americans. Just Louisvillians and Kentuckians. With the creation museum and voting Bush into office twice i have enough trouble convincing people that Kentuckians arent brain dead hicks without people proudly declaring their location and then making blankent statements like:
"Terrorists hates our freedoms."
"The U.S. defeated slavery."
etc.
Sorry to fly into a tangent, it just reminds of the fact that, for example, both George Clooney and Johnny Depp are from Kentucky but they never, ever talk about it. THat jackass Billy Ray Cyrus mentions it every chance he gets. Most people seem to forget that Lincoln was not actually born in Illinois, but everyone sees the big 'KY" next to mitch mcconnell's name every time he opens his mouth to say something dunderheaded.
sigh. . .  |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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In the context of the segment of his speech the article is talking about, I don't think his words were poorly chosen:
| Barack Obama wrote: |
Another issue that confronts all democracies as they move to the future is how we deal with the past. The United States is still working through some of our own darker periods in our history. Facing the Washington Monument that I spoke of is a memorial of Abraham Lincoln, the man who freed those who were enslaved even after Washington led our revolution. Our country still struggles with the legacies of slavery and segregation, the past treatment of Native Americans.
Human endeavor is by its nature imperfect. History is often tragic, but unresolved, it can be a heavy weight. Each country must work through its past. And reckoning with the past can help us seize a better future. I know there's strong views in this chamber about the terrible events of 1915. And while there's been a good deal of commentary about my views, it's really about how the Turkish and Armenian people deal with the past. And the best way forward for the Turkish and Armenian people is a process that works through the past in a way that is honest, open and constructive.
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I think his mention of America's own past issues strengthens his call for Turkey to progress on this account, not weakens it. His call for open discussion on this topic is a championing of freedom of speech, which is a right that should be pushed as hard as possible in this world, and I am glad he did it. You can still be imprisoned in Turkey for calling the Armenian genocide a genocide (it counts as "insulting Turkey"); that's something worthy of address, and it was both bold and appropriate of him to do so. The fact that he did it tactfully is good, not bad. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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| OTOH wrote: |
| But he trips himself up by then trying to argue that openly stating this would be good diplomacy in Turkey. |
Yup.
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Well, most Americans don't think the Civil War was about slavery. I seem to be the only American who thinks it was. Which is what I had said before. And, lo and behold, here comes the firing squad to tell me that I'm wrong.
| harlowethrombey wrote: |
| Thus, a civil war over a nasty subject that most of the rest of the world had already agreed was barbaric, that resulted in the deaths and destruction of nearly half the country is not so much a 'shining moment' in the same vein as, say Women's Sufferage, the Appollo Program, the writing of the Bill of Rights or the Constitution. Etc. |
I was not celebrating the carnage of the Civil War. Nor the fact that we had adopted slavery earlier. But what it accomplished, especially in terms of the 13th and 14th Amendments, go far beyond just repealing slavery.
| harlowethrombey wrote: |
Not Americans. Just Louisvillians and Kentuckians. With the creation museum and voting Bush into office twice i have enough trouble convincing people that Kentuckians arent brain dead hicks without people proudly declaring their location and then making blankent statements like:
"Terrorists hates our freedoms."
"The U.S. defeated slavery."
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Face it, you took a look at my location and decided you'd bash me. Why? Because the state in which I currently reside voted for Bush twice? Because as a Kentuckian you have a massive inferiority complex? I really don't know, and frankly I don't care.
Also, Louisville is not exactly like the rest of the state.
People are going to disagree on message boards. You need to get over that, and then you need to get over yourself. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Well, most Americans don't think the Civil War was about slavery. |
My understanding of the basic contours goes like this:
Lincoln fought the Civil War in order to keep the union together.
BUT...
The reason the union was threatened in the first place was because the southern states declared independence in response to what they viewed as Lincoln's less-than-sympathetic policies towards slavery.
AND...
Had Lincoln just let the southern states go, there is no guarantee on record that the abolition of slavery would have taken place when it did. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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