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Bs Ps Fs Vs Zs Gs THs: Bribes and Free eBooks

 
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n3ptne



Joined: 14 Sep 2005
Location: Poh*A*ng City

PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 8:45 pm    Post subject: Bs Ps Fs Vs Zs Gs THs: Bribes and Free eBooks Reply with quote

I'm sure you all have children who have problems pronouncing the Fah, Bah, Pah, Vah, Zah, Gah, and Tha's of the English language (among other ones). Having noticed that the problem is predominant in my school (except with the young ones, funny enough) I've decided to correct it, and along the way discovered a rather effective method.

While studying Korean I've noticed, quite shockingly, that many English letters, when said fast, tend to sound nearly exactly alike. This was one of my fundamental, secret, complaints with the Korean language, prefering my 26 character alphabet, with uniquely distinct sounds, to Hangul. It occured to me then that English speakers never have a problem making the distinction, not because for a lack of similarity, but simply because the vocal method of speaking English, the stresses and interm breaths, are completely different from Korean. The other side of this coin is that I can't distinguish some of the various Korean sounds, and have hard time saying phrases quickly, often feeling like I have a full mouth. Basically: I haven't picked up the flow.

Now between studying Korean and teaching English, and trying to correct these very slight errors, it came to me that my focus was entirely in the wrong place. For the first month I said the sound over and over in hopes that the students would "hear" the actual difference, and then begin to make adjustments to their speech. This approach is entirely backward it seems, and I only realized this in the past week. Since then my students have literally made 80 to 90% improvements in their pronounciation of subtle consonants.

What I noticed was that when I went to make a B sound, my mouth was in a specific position (lips closed and ready to *B*low out air, creating pressure). Now when I want to make a P sound, my mouth is in the same closed position, but the air inside is trying to be *P*ushed out. Then I watched my students: 50% didn't close their mouth, problem solved.

Next step I took was practicing how to say the other problematic consonants, and the TH combination. Each one of them was entirely different, but very similar. Take V for example... your mouth is open, teeth pressed into your lower lip to create an amount of pressure, you blow air out vibrating the lower lip, and then end it with a E, A, O, or U sound. Z, tongue on the roof of your mouth, mouth open. F, literally blowing out air and not making any sound at all, followed by a E, A, O, or U.

I took note of the differences and then pointed to my mouth, drew pictures, opened my mouth to demonstrate for the class (which they always find funny, holding your tongue and pushing it where it should be, and trying to talk at the same time). Then I had them do it, and watched them... it was easy to tell what they weren't doing, and after a few minutes they got the hang. Start by having them make a sound, maybe V (which is just the sound of your lower lip vibrating, Vvvvvvvv), then stop and say AH. VVVVVVV<pause>AH. VVVVVVV<pause>AH. VVVVVVV<pause>AH. VAH. Process repeat. On the board I write all the letters, and afterwards I have the class (in unison) say whichever one I point to.. then I go around the room and have them individually say ones so I can make sure they all get it.

And they do all get it... but, no suprise, they can't *hear* the difference. To make them feel better I draw ��, and �� on the board and point to each for the class to say in unison. Then I say it... of course, I can't, well I can, and what I mean by that is simply, I mentally know �� is just a louder version of �� but aurally I make no distinction whatsoever between the two sounds, and when used in a word/phrase, believe them to be entirely interchangable... of course the Koreans beg to differ. I go back and forth telling them that I think they're "same same", and allowing them to try and teach me the difference... I pronounce �� properly and then purposely pronounce �� just like it, back and forth for a few minutes. Then it dawns on half of them why I'm being so anal, because, while to them the English consonants are all interchangable, to me they are not. They explain it to the other half, and life is good. In a nut shell they can all make the different sounds, and their pronounciation of words containing such combinations is startlingly better. I've also found that using Korean to teach English is highly advantageous, and that the students respond very well to it. (as an aside, if you post a complaint about not being able to read the Korean text in this paragraph, and you're in Korea and own a computer that doesn't have the Korean language pack... please shoot yourself.)

I accomplish this system in little more than a half hour, and then like to reward the class if they've done well. I have them all take out a sheet of paper, and while keeping the letters still on the board, tell them we're going to have a competition. Winner gets 500won, and I proceed to say 10, 20, 25 words, depending on time that all start with one of the mentioned consonants... usually the tricky ones, and never words they know. I say the word only once and they write down whatever letter it starts with. My best student so far has gotten 18/25, most get 10-15 wrong out of a group of 25. Not bad, just need more practice, but you'd be astonished how much they focus when money is on the line. Ties are settled by tie breakers. The following week (I only see each class once per week) I spend 20 minutes going over the sounds before moving on, we'll see how long it sticks.

Oh, and lastly, the reading has been going very, very well with the students. My school went out and bought about 60 childrens books, very simplified versions of classic stories. They are all in English, and then after each page they have the Hangul version of the tricky words, and dificult sentences. I only let the students see the Hangul (these are Free Talking sessions) after we have a little discussion on what the word could mean, based on how it's used and what information we're told about the word, using words they already know. The books come in versions Grade 1 - 6, and I believe (though have none with me at the moment) that they are produced by YBM Korea. Highly recommended.

Anyway, I have some students who read on the Grade 5-6 level, the stories are about 1500words? (1200?) and are similarly watered down versions of the real deal, only using more difficult words. I find these books to be more or less a waste of time, and have taken to using the real English version of easier classics. I found two great websites that provide free eBooks, and the students love them. Of course, the words aren't as difficult as the ones in the Grades 5-6 books, but the phrasing is so much more complicated and forces them to think... we have better discussions, and it's great to have an advanced student read Alice in Wonderland (the watered down version) in less than an hour, and then give them the real version that's 50 times longer. They are usually shocked. All of the students have informed me they like reading much, much more than the Talk, Talk, Talk book and the other "Free Talking" texts they've been exposed too, and most feel really empowered by reading a book in English (regardless of whether its the real or watered down version). For many it is the very first time.

Now... I'm going to be teaching a Saturday writing class twice a month. Anyone have any ideas on what sort of material to cover? I was thinking of doing sentence diagrams, having the kids explain what the sentence means, and explaining what the function of words like "the", "a", etc. are, and then having them practice.

The eBook addresses are listed below. Peace.

http://education.powys.gov.uk/english/literacy_special/ebooks.php
http://www.bygosh.com/childrensclassics.htm
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ajuma



Joined: 18 Feb 2003
Location: Anywere but Seoul!!

PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2005 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In regard to teaching pronunciation: It sounds like you have a handle on it! One other thing you could try is using a mirror for those having a hard time making the sounds. Stand behind the student so both of your faces are in the mirror. Model the correct mouth postion, and have them copy you while looking in the mirror. This works particularly well with "F", "V", "W" and "TH".
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jacl



Joined: 31 Oct 2005

PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2005 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's my list of hardest and down:

Final L
Z
Sometimes CH (which comes out TS/TSH or whatever)
Sometimes S (before an I as in "see" or whatever)
Short I can be a bitch at times as well as O plus other vowel combinations with O.

Also can't forget about TH. Voiced TH. And N being pronounced with the tongue under the upper teeth (a lot of students get this though)

Of course there's R. I teach the curled tongue thing. They get it but...

The others aren't too much of a problem. Only need work. B and P are the least hardest to teach. As is F and V.

Anyway, Final L is a bitch from hell.
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n3ptne



Joined: 14 Sep 2005
Location: Poh*A*ng City

PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2005 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The mirror idea is nice, but I'm afraid it would only embarass the students, most of the girls have a hard enough time with sticking out their tongues when I do and making over emphatic sounds, but it is nice.

CH is hard? Just write �� up on the board, they should get it first try.

I haven't had a problem with final L, it comes out R, but in Korean theres no verbal distinction between R and L, and you're never going to get them to fix it... it's something akin to an "asian accent".

R's (except that its a bastardized L) and O's I havent had any problems with either, Korean makes a pretty extensive use of the O sound which is much more paticular than English, if I run into problems I just use the hangul characters to get them to do what I want.

I've been toying with the idea of starting to phonetically write out their vocab lists (as close as possible, naturally), but am afraid they might rely too heavily on the list and not try to "read" the words themselves.. would be nice in moderation anyway.

What I find to be the biggest problem is a mastery of the soft character sounds, AH, BAH, CA, DA, so forth and so on. They can, for the most part, pretty well say any hard sound, but it's the subtle ones they confuse. E's for I's, etc.
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n3ptne



Joined: 14 Sep 2005
Location: Poh*A*ng City

PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2005 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whatchjoo mean by curled R thing by the way? I'm sitting here trying to figure it... I cant/dont curl or roll my tongue (did horribly in Spanish) for the R sound..when I make an R sound I vibrate my lips, keeping them neary closed... and follow with the appropriate vowel, mouth opening in the process, my tongue doesn't move.
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Demonicat



Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Location: Suwon

PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2005 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

do the mirror thing privately, with only one or 2 students a ta time- only way it wil work.
Another tip is to draw the mouth and show tounge, lip, and air placements. It works very well.
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ajuma



Joined: 18 Feb 2003
Location: Anywere but Seoul!!

PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 1:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I should have been more clear: When I use the mirror, I do it with EVERYONE so no one particular student is singled out.

I was (un)fortunate enough to need a "permanent bridge" and the dentist made full impressions of my upper and lower teeth in plaster. I asked to keep them and use them, along with a red balloon to show tongue placement. They always get a laugh!
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Wrench



Joined: 07 Apr 2005

PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 5:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prell

Prell..

Its a shampoo.
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jacl



Joined: 31 Oct 2005

PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 5:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

n3ptne wrote:
Whatchjoo mean by curled R thing by the way? I'm sitting here trying to figure it... I cant/dont curl or roll my tongue (did horribly in Spanish) for the R sound..when I make an R sound I vibrate my lips, keeping them neary closed... and follow with the appropriate vowel, mouth opening in the process, my tongue doesn't move.


In English, you curl your tongue for the R. French R's use the back of the tongue and it could be that Spanish does too. Your lips vibrate because the sound is vocal. You don't vibrate your lips first. It just happens. The way your describing it, is closer to the way Koreans would pronounce.

It's not a good idea to use Korean spelling when teaching English pronunciation. �� and CH (as in "cherry") are not the same. Some students catch on, but others continue to use it with a TS or S thing.

If you don't want to correct the final L then I guess it's not a problem for you. Only the students. I guess they could get by. Anyway.
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muggie2dammit



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Location: Ilsan, Korea

PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ajuma wrote:
In regard to teaching pronunciation: It sounds like you have a handle on it! One other thing you could try is using a mirror for those having a hard time making the sounds. Stand behind the student so both of your faces are in the mirror. Model the correct mouth postion, and have them copy you while looking in the mirror. This works particularly well with "F", "V", "W" and "TH".


And getting them to stand in front of a mirror and look at themselves is very easy. It's harder to get them to _stop_ looking at themselves in the mirror and let another student do it.

Muggie2
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ajuma



Joined: 18 Feb 2003
Location: Anywere but Seoul!!

PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Use a hand-held one so you can take it away if they get too engrossed!! Laughing
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muggie2dammit



Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Location: Ilsan, Korea

PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ajuma wrote:
Use a hand-held one so you can take it away if they get too engrossed!! Laughing


Hehehe
I actually noticed in Suwon about 4 years ago that Koreans there were totally obsessed with their own images. People would stop every time they went past the mirror and check out how they looked, even the people that collect shopping carts.
That was also about the time that girls were walking around with small boats on their feet. I think they were supposed to be shoes, but 4 or 5 sizes too large. And they still stood on the back of the shoes to flatten them down, which meant thet clomped around like people wearing snowshoes. And this was _fashion_!

Muggie2
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Qinella



Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Location: the crib

PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

n3ptne wrote:
Whatchjoo mean by curled R thing by the way? I'm sitting here trying to figure it... I cant/dont curl or roll my tongue (did horribly in Spanish) for the R sound..when I make an R sound I vibrate my lips, keeping them neary closed... and follow with the appropriate vowel, mouth opening in the process, my tongue doesn't move.


When you say r, the sides of your tongue come up to the top of your mouth, generally to meet your teeth, or just inside them. When you speak fast, and as a native speaker, it isn't always necessarily that way, but it's a good rule of thumb for people trying to learn.

Just try it. Put the sides of your tongue up so they hit your top teeth and make a sound with your voice. Sounds like R, right?

Q.
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