Korean Job Discussion Forums

[bobbybigfoot]

What do you think of these grammar rules?

* never end a sentence with a preposition

e.g. "Whom did you vote for?" should be changed to "For whom did you vote?"

* never split infinitives.

e.g. "To boldly go" should be "to go boldly."

Furthermore, this begs the question: just how much grammar should we be teaching these kids?

[Manner of Speaking]

When I teach Writing, I introduce my students to the idea that there are variations between written grammar and spoken grammar. Native speakers frequently violate the rules/conventions of grammar because speaking is a direct communicative process...we use our faces, hands, intonation, speed of speech, register, etc. Consequently, it's common for native speakers to bend the grammar rules when you are trying to get across an idea to someone.

With writing, however, native speakers place a high value on following certain grammar conventions and choice of words very closely. Some verbs are used more commonly in written English than in spoken English, and vice-versa. Some expressions are used more commonly in spoken English than in written English; expressions like "besides" "as a matter of fact", etc.

[FMPJ]

[lifeinkorea]

You have to first look at the age of the students and address their current level. Even if you have a full year's worth of lessons, you can only help a student one step from where they are at.

Communication in written or spoken form is made up of getting information and giving it. Do you want to get all the information or teach students how to get the information for themselves?

[tzechuk]

FMPJ has it right - although Germanic, English grammar is based on Latin.

I was unfortunate enough to be the last lot of students to study Latin and therefore still retain a limited amount of Latin in my head (Dear Lord!). I often feel somewhat guilty when I split my infinitives and stick a preposition at the end of a sentence. It really doesn't help that my own mother majored in English and is constantly telling me my *modern* English is wrong. Urgh!

But to answer your question - should grammar be flexible - I think it is very evident that grammar IS flexible. Read books from Chaucer, compare them with Jane Austen and Charles Dickens, then with Oscar Wilde, and again with writers of today, you will see that grammar rules have changed a lot (with the most fundamental basic rules intact to keep the language understandable, of course).

Perhaps flexibility isn't the right word... perhaps evolution is.

[FMPJ]

[Rory_Calhoun27]

[tzechuk]

[FMPJ]

I think you misunderstood. I'm saying that grammarians agree that Captain Kirk's split infinitive is just fine.

EDIT: This is in response to Rory Calhoun.

[the foystein]

I think the goal is to have them reach "acceptable" communication. In that case I would waive those rules.

[bobbybigfoot]

[FMPJ]

Yeah, I was taught it too, but as your own quote shows, people only began to try to "legislate" against it in the 19th century, and the disagreement is among lay people (including school teachers, in the US, at least--that's where I was taught it), not among grammarians.

The real authoritative experts have always held it as acceptable, despite the misdirected tut-tutting of the pedants.

EDIT:

From Merriam-Webster's Concise Dictionary of English Usage:

[dporter]

Once you have demonstrated that you know and understand the rules of grammar you are then free to break them as you please.

[harlowethrombey]

Grammar is such a strange beast. It has an exception to nearly every rule. Even professional writers (authors, journalists, etc.) break the rules all the time. We dont follow them when we speak and we sure as hell dont follow them while typing on the internet on the forum (see!).

The KTs drill the crap out of grammar with my students and they can explain it in their native language. Unless someone has a very specific question for me, student or teacher, I usually dont touch it. To put it in perspective: when I have my korean lesson I often have questions about syntax. My teachers explain the answers to me in English. If they tried to explain a Korean grammar question in Korean I would have no friggin' idea what they were talking about.

In my opinion the word 'rules' is a misnomer. Grammar guidelines seems more appropriate. Yes, it is important, but effective communication doesnt always mean flawless grammar.

[poet13]

I teach my students that written and spoken English are two different languages. I also teach them that grammar rules are a set of guidelines to help them communicate more effectively with each other rather than a rigid set of rules.