Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Longun]

I can't wait to go back home!I've got other more interesting projects to do.My program was not as good as I had hoped.I was not fired or non renewed, I quit!Heard people were not renewed.What are reasons for non- renewal?Were these cost cutting, incompetence, bad blood,your school, etc, etc?If someone wanted to join my former program, why would you bother?Is it bad program or good in your opinion?I must say, speaking for myself, I wouldn't and couldn't' recommend it.The original seems to have been misinterpreted as being critical of certain individuals.I have no criticism of any individual, only a wish to know what people think other than myself.I did mention that I thought it was an uneven playing field in some respects.I think it would be better to get clearer example of this below.In order to preserve balance in an argument, I wonder if there have been any issues with these things below for any teacher. What teachers might answer to these questions:

1- Were teachers made aware of the law and your rights here? Did you ever have any class on the laws of this country, in your induction? Are you told what you can be renewed and non- renewed for? Do you know if Private classes are legal yet, for instance? Do you get legitimate appraisals?

2- Did you have a medical for every year you taught? Would you say it is useful? Do they test for Drug use? Do you feel this test is an invasion of your privacy?How do you feel about the resettlement process?

3- Were you allowed to vote for a committee? Is it truly representative of your community�s age, religion, race or creed, etc? Could you think of other members more suitable based on experience?Does this Committee serve a purpose?

4- Have there been any unfortunate events like suicides? Was there any counseling available to advise you on work and health issues?

5- School allocation process- is it fair? Did you get a choice, year on year? Were you or others allowed to change? What�s the most times a teacher has changed schools? Do you know why?Can you rotate?

6- Opportunities- does everyone get informed of the opportunities? For example- to be judges, training, funds, resources, etc .When there is an extra bit of money to be made. Is this process done in an equal and timely manner?

7- Was the teacher contest and selection a fair process, in your opinion? Who has won it?How about issues for families and accommodation?

8- Do people get different deals on holidays and money, is that OK? Why is it you are on equal contracts, but all school arrangements seem to be different? Or how is this explained?

9- Notifications- is the Co teacher notified of meetings in their language ,before you are in English? Why do they have regular meetings and you are not able to see the minutes?

10- Are you happy �an outsider �, knows your private details or about your non renewal? That he may have access to you confidential medical records. Is that person suitably representative or qualifies as a legitimate recruiter? Were you informed of this?

11- Timing of important notifications- could you say whether it is thoughtful or not?Were you on holiday? Could this done better?

12- Class Allocation- do all teachers have the same hours or are some more favorable than other e.g. 17 as opposed to 25.How about the issue of Camps?Is it a level playing filed?

13- Travel- Why are some teachers posted in the boonies? Is that fair, when others are situated more conveniently in the center? Is there any rotation system? Is the assessment process clear? Would you have liked to be able to walk home for lunch?

14- Are you allowed to assess the Co teacher�s performance? Can you pick and chose them? Who�s the boss?

15- What complaints procedure or grievance process is in place? Is it true to say teachers have one? Can you appeal this decision? Has anyone been successful? How about Bonus entitlements, do you get the same if you have to do 9-5.Do they teach as many classes as you in reality?

16- Sick days- Is this taken as part of the vacation- I'm confused as to how some people interpret this.

17- One hour rule- Does this benefit anyone? Do people really take advantage or are you being taken advantage of? Is it fairly or in a reasonable persons� mind- enforced sensibly? Or are some more equal than others?

18-a. Improper relations- if there were any possibilities of this happening; do you think it could ever happen here? Yes or no will suffice here!
b. Convenient relationships- do this kind of situation have any merits-again yes or no will do here!

19. -Punishments- do any teachers get punished or get their wrists slapped?

20. - Competence- are you competent to do the job? If so, explain why? What do you think would be a good example of incompetence?

[sojusucks]

Welcome to Korea.

I remember my first trip to Immigration. I looked out the window in the stairwell and saw two individuals handing over what looked like a couple million of won for passports (probably bought the visa) and ARC cards. All you need is money in Korea, perhaps that explains the obsession to become rich in this country.

[huffdaddy]

[wylies99]

[maingman]

Longun

WRONG title therre
Korea- why bother?

[some waygug-in]

They wait till mid vacation to tell people they are terminated, no reasons or explanations given. Real class, I tell you, real class!

Oh well, It�s not like I was overly satisfied with my job.

[Matilda]

longun wrote:

[marlow]

[TheUrbanMyth]

[Matilda]

Hey some waygug-in�. yeah, it is bad that some didn�t get renewed. I can think of one person that does deserve feedback on the matter.

BTW, are you just gonna let the drama of Daves get the better of you? Aren�t you gonna stand up for our friends Bob & Eileen? You remember, the people�s place you spent New Years at�..?

[wylies99]

What about the committee?

[Soccerstar]

Gimhae offers an excellent contract. One of the best in Korea to be blunt.
Longman, you are probably one of those City Hall fired, and having heard both sides of the stories, your gripe is unwarranted.
Gimhae City Hall is one of the few Korean programs where the boss actually is genuinely interested in the welfare of the teachers. If you can't handle a 9-5 job than that would classify you as either a bum or a slacker. In the public school system you work only the set hours and then you have free time afterwards.
Gimhae clearly sets out the length of vacation, offers lots of optional jobs for extra pay, and offers 3-month required notice by schools if they will give you a camp. This is simply not available in other programs.
You can wine and gripe about any job. You will enjoy what you choose to enjoy.
But constantly attacking Gimhae City Hall despite their kindness to their many teachers is very low.
And I know the numbers. The vast majority of teachers are staying. In fact, of the 15 applicants interviewed for this last wave, only the 9 best were accepted. If they are getting rid of excessively negative people at 6-months it is entirely their prerogative. 6 months is probation and negativity is a cancer than needs to be torn out.
There is no in-crowd or out-crowd in Gimhae. There are only those who choose to enjoy the benefits of a great program and those choose to walk around with a dark cloud around them.
If you have a problem with Gimhae's contract, then the only explanation is that you couldn't make it back home in the real world either.

[Soccerstar]

As for you somewayguk-in, I am genuinely sorry to see you go. I have enjoyed reading your posts on Dave's here and though we saw things at EPIG from slightly different perspectives, I really felt that you made a go of it these past two years.
I know you have personally struggled here a bit, but I also am confident that in your case it is not a bad contract or bad treatment in Gimhae, but personal choice that persuaded you to leave. Come on now, you say you didn't enjoy it that much... Didn't you get at least close to a total of 3 months worth of vacation last year? Didn't you make a lot of money? Wasn't it very simple work? Didn't you enjoy opportunities to earn extra money from City Hall doing very simple things? I don't know if you went to the orphanage, taught at the library, did any 'Fun Fun English' lessons, but if you did, were you ever not paid what was promised you?
And let's be honest here about E J and Miss Hwang. They manage about 35 Native English Teachers, 56 co-teachers, and 56 schools with their principals and vice-principals. They FOUGHT for you. The contract they gave you letting you go home one hour after you finished your last class was an uphill battle for them from day 1. After defending you from constant attacks from 56 schools with all their Korean Teachers AND the Education Department, they only finally were forced to bring back the standard hours as some Native English Teachers within the program blatantly and defiantly abused it, going home immediately after finishing class and telling their schools that this is their 'right'. They gave all Gimhae Native English Speakers in Gimhae a bad name and this led to the angry protests that E. J. had to field on your (collective) behalf.
If you saw things from both sides somewayguk-in, I really think you would have had a much better experience. The amazing thing is that they still have a lot of great benefits in the contract, despite all the pressure. Imagine if you had to tell 56 principals who are used to being treated as gods that they had to give their NET's 3-month notice. Imagine if you had to fight the Education Department, a very powerful branch of the federal government holding all the teachers money. Imagine if you were responsible for writing a contract that you knew your fellow Koreans would be angry with you for and the NET's benefiting from would not fully appreciate.
The alternative would be for EPIG to give you an EPIK contract. Sure it is 22 hours instead of 25. But you could end up with less vacation, you would not get $100 travel allowance/month, you might be stuck with a camp AFTER you booked your tickets back home, etc.
It's a great contract, and I am very passionate about it because I know what it is like to leave it and pursue something that appeared even better. You do not know what you have until you leave it.

[wylies99]

soccerstar, isn't EPIG changing the "great" contract regarding leaving 1 hour after the last class and summer and winter camps? And what about the "committee"? All potential applicants should understand the situation with the "committee", so please be so kind to explain everything about the "committee" and what new teachers may be getting themselves into if they sign with EPIG.

[Soccerstar]

wylies99,
You speak as if you want to know about this contract, but you are searching for problems with it. I don't know what you are referring to regarding any "committee". If you are referring to any "representative teachers committee" (of which I am not a part) let me stress here clearly that there are no teachers who have been given any more power than any others and even if they did with 56 individual Korean-speaking schools than I don't see how they could make this program any better or worse.
Let me ask you a few questions. Have you ever worked this contract? Have you any first-hand experience, or are you going on hearsay? It is clear that you at least know someone who was in the program and experienced problems, but as you have not worked this job yourself how could you personally know whether it is "great" or not?
Most English teachers who have worked at EPIG really enjoyed their contract. Many of those who leave move on to a University or move on to finish their masters in the real world. In our case we are doing both.
There are certainly a few complainers in every contract. I've seen a lot of posts complaining of problems with EPIK, GEPIK, and even one complaining of SMOE. The fact remains that all of these trump hogwons because they are clear structure, reliable pay, and more vacation. Not to mention may people like their evenings free.
I have heard lots of people complain about their contracts, and many complain about interpersonal problems with those they work with. But with EPIG I know firsthand that it is a better contract than the others out there, and most people will be friendly to you if you are friendly with them. With EPIG a lot of complainers are people who re-applied to continue with EPIG but were turned down for a second year by City Hall because they had bad attitudes about the program. Clearly the program isn't bad, as they re-applied. But when constant negativity is spread it becomes bad for those who struggle with it.
Anyway, Wylies99 you cannot be an expert on our contract without working for it, talking to either those in the program who actually enjoy working for EPIG or hearing from representatives at City Hall themeselves.
There are 2 sides to every story, so I would politely ask you to listen to both sides. Yes, the departure 1-hour after last class is being done away with, but only because NET's abused it and left earlier, giving the whole group a bad name to the Education Department. This I know from teachers within the program who are proud of how quick they got home, and from City Hall members who had to deal with their angry co-teachers.
I have repeatedly explained very carefully what teachers are "getting themselves into" regarding this contract, and that is a great working opportunity with lots of money, vacation, and benefits where your bosses care about you and sincerely want you to have the best working opportunity possible.