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Ineverlie&I'malwaysri
Joined: 09 Aug 2011
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Adventurer

Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 4:00 am Post subject: |
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Well, the woman wasn't simply a customer, but also a protester it appears. However, she was outside at that time, so arresting seems like an abuse of power. That doesn't surprise me when it comes to the police.
It seemed like he was trying to punish the woman. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Location: Established in 1994
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Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 6:19 am Post subject: |
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Direct, non-violent action requires a response.
The genius of direct, non-violent action, as Ghandi and King understood, was that it forces a confrontation with personal ethics and the law. (Unfortunately, the cops are caught in the middle--they are the children of the underclass, hired to protect the interests of the over-class).
One of the classic expressions of it is Dr. King's 'Letter from Birmingham Jail'.
Eight local clergymen had written that African-Americans should be patient and endure the continuance of social injustice, just as they had for decades and decades after the Civil War because any change would make the white over-class uncomfortable and inconvenienced. Dr. King answered:http://abacus.bates.edu/admin/offices/dos/mlk/letter.html
One part:
Moreover, I am cognizant of the interrelatedness of all communities and states. I cannot sit idly by in Atlanta and not be concerned about what happens in Birmingham. Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. We are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly. Never again can we afford to live with the narrow, provincial "outside agitator" idea. Anyone who lives inside the United States can never be considered an outsider anywhere within its bounds.
You deplore the demonstrations taking place in Birmingham. But your statement, I am sorry to say, fails to express a similar concern for the conditions that brought about the demonstrations. I am sure that none of you would want to rest content with the superficial kind of social analysis that deals merely with effects and does not grapple with underlying causes. It is unfortunate that demonstrations are taking place in Birmingham, but it is even more unfortunate that the city's white power structure left the Negro community with no alternative."
There is no need to read the letter any more as black/white. It can be understood as privileged, entitled upper class/the rest of us. There is no difference. The country has waited for 43 years to confront this issue. It had to be postponed while the racists and bigots of the early 60's died off, as LBJ predicted.
Maybe it is too early. Maybe the reactionary forces of kowtowing to the privileged few are still assendant. But finally, the progessive forces are awakening. |
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Steelrails

Joined: 12 Mar 2009 Location: Earth, Solar System
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Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:05 am Post subject: |
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Going to throw out this blast...which is full of tripe but still needs to be said...
At least in the case of some of those hippies, maybe they'd have a job or a better one if they didn't spend all of college smoking weed and doing shrooms and "finding themselves".
OF course this has nothing to do with the rampant outsourcing of jobs and the shameless selling out of Washington to Wall Street, but I have trouble taking the drum circle crowd seriously.
Although statistics indicate that only about 15% of the people at the protests are unemployed.
OWS would be great if it ditched the hippies and young people who don't even bother to save money but believe they should tell other people what to do with it. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Location: Established in 1994
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Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:24 am Post subject: |
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Steelrails wrote: |
Going to throw out this blast...which is full of tripe but still needs to be said...
At least in the case of some of those hippies, maybe they'd have a job or a better one if they didn't spend all of college smoking weed and doing shrooms and "finding themselves".
OF course this has nothing to do with the rampant outsourcing of jobs and the shameless selling out of Washington to Wall Street, but I have trouble taking the drum circle crowd seriously.
Although statistics indicate that only about 15% of the people at the protests are unemployed.
OWS would be great if it ditched the hippies and young people who don't even bother to save money but believe they should tell other people what to do with it. |
Last numbers I saw, 5 or 6 people apply for every opening. Please tell me how that is the fault of the applicants.
It seems to me, if we set up an economic system that benefits the entrepreneurs, and then they don't follow through with investments that produce jobs, then the fault is the entrepreneurs', not the unemployed. I know that is not true in the conservative universe, but...
I also take exception to your use of the word 'hippie'. In my day, there were hippies and anally retentive Republicans...and no one else. You seem to be allying yourself with the anally rententive. Certainly, you are entitled to join any group you want. But are you sure you want to put down the people who expanded the world so you could enjoy it, or would you rather cross your legs and play innocent? |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:52 am Post subject: |
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Steelrails wrote: |
Going to throw out this blast...which is full of tripe but still needs to be said...
At least in the case of some of those hippies, maybe they'd have a job or a better one if they didn't spend all of college smoking weed and doing shrooms and "finding themselves".
OF course this has nothing to do with the rampant outsourcing of jobs and the shameless selling out of Washington to Wall Street, but I have trouble taking the drum circle crowd seriously.
Although statistics indicate that only about 15% of the people at the protests are unemployed.
OWS would be great if it ditched the hippies and young people who don't even bother to save money but believe they should tell other people what to do with it. |
^
This kind of dribble is part of the problem (not the solution). |
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Ineverlie&I'malwaysri
Joined: 09 Aug 2011
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Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:08 am Post subject: |
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^ And what on earth does it have to do with the OP in the first place? |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:12 am Post subject: |
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I don't know what to think of this incident. The protestors are provocateurs, but its non-violent and cleverly skirting the line of legality. The police are trying to do their job, but they're not doing it very well.
Just another day in New York City? |
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Ineverlie&I'malwaysri
Joined: 09 Aug 2011
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Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:19 am Post subject: |
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^ Wait a minute. So for closing my bank account, I'm a provocateur?
Please do not ever become a judge. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:40 am Post subject: |
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Ineverlie&I'malwaysri wrote: |
^ Wait a minute. So for closing my bank account, I'm a provocateur?
Please do not ever become a judge. |
Dude, be real. They were not arrested for closing their accounts. They were arrested for demonstrating inside a bank.
If they had come in individually and not made a statement out of it, yes, their accounts would be closed.
Still, how could they arrest her once she was already outside? Tsk. |
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geldedgoat
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
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Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:56 am Post subject: |
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The protesters inside weren't arrested for closing their accounts; they were arrested for trespassing. How were they trespassing? By causing a disturbance inside a private business and refusing to behave and/or leave of their own accord. Blame Citibank for that if you like, but I'm not seeing police abuse... except for the arrest of the woman outside. That was beyond bizarre, and it deserves an explanation. Also, that bit about locking the protesters inside to prevent them from leaving (and thus avoiding arrest) was odd, but there has to be more behind that. |
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Ineverlie&I'malwaysri
Joined: 09 Aug 2011
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Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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Kuros wrote: |
Ineverlie&I'malwaysri wrote: |
^ Wait a minute. So for closing my bank account, I'm a provocateur?
Please do not ever become a judge. |
Dude, be real. They were not arrested for closing their accounts. They were arrested for demonstrating inside a bank. |
I didn't see any demo inside the bank. Have you got anything to back that up?
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If they had come in individually and not made a statement out of it, yes, their accounts would be closed. |
So if I enter a bank to close my account and another person inside happens to do the same thing, we deserve to be arrested? Are you really OK with jailing people for making a statement by peacefully entering a bank together to close their accounts? |
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ThingsComeAround

Joined: 07 Nov 2008
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Captain Corea

Joined: 28 Feb 2005 Location: Seoul
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Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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Ineverlie&I'malwaysri wrote: |
Kuros wrote: |
Ineverlie&I'malwaysri wrote: |
^ Wait a minute. So for closing my bank account, I'm a provocateur?
Please do not ever become a judge. |
Dude, be real. They were not arrested for closing their accounts. They were arrested for demonstrating inside a bank. |
I didn't see any demo inside the bank. Have you got anything to back that up?
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If they had come in individually and not made a statement out of it, yes, their accounts would be closed. |
So if I enter a bank to close my account and another person inside happens to do the same thing, we deserve to be arrested? Are you really OK with jailing people for making a statement by peacefully entering a bank together to close their accounts? |
Agreed. What if there was a run on a bank and everyone and their dog was there to close out their accounts... Should they be arrested? Complaining about a business and its service is part of doing business. Anyone who has operated a business knows as much. |
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Steelrails

Joined: 12 Mar 2009 Location: Earth, Solar System
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Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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Kuros wrote: |
Steelrails wrote: |
Going to throw out this blast...which is full of tripe but still needs to be said...
At least in the case of some of those hippies, maybe they'd have a job or a better one if they didn't spend all of college smoking weed and doing shrooms and "finding themselves".
OF course this has nothing to do with the rampant outsourcing of jobs and the shameless selling out of Washington to Wall Street, but I have trouble taking the drum circle crowd seriously.
Although statistics indicate that only about 15% of the people at the protests are unemployed.
OWS would be great if it ditched the hippies and young people who don't even bother to save money but believe they should tell other people what to do with it. |
^
This kind of dribble is part of the problem (not the solution). |
So the solution is to wear stupid costumes and bang drums?
The Tea Party is full of similar crackpots who do similar things, but at least they have a core of people who go about this with a brain- starting newsletters, forming voter advocacy groups, soliciting donations, endorsing candidates.
The drum circle crowd is of the same mindset that got us into this mess- flashy solutions and avoiding the boring, slow, dirty work and not trying to go for sexy flash in the pan, short-term quarterly gain solutions. Unlike the Tea Party, there is nothing sustainable about OWS. It's a gimmick that is relying on constantly increasing momentum to sustain it, think the Bush tax cuts. Yes, OWS share the same mindset as the Bush tax cuts crowd.
23 year olds who have never ran anything in their life think everyone should listen to them as to the way the world should be run is one of the idiocies of modern times. |
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