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Korean Job Discussion Forums "The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
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travelingfool
Joined: 10 Mar 2008 Location: Parents' basement
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Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 5:18 pm Post subject: Why is there so much controversy over teaching in Korea? |
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There is shite talking from all sides. Koreans love to call us losers. Teachers call each other losers.
Can someone tell me where the hostility comes from? |
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Yu_Bum_suk

Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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Anyone can come here and teach. The result is some of the world's best teachers and some of the most hopeless working side by side. |
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Pwillig
Joined: 26 Jan 2009
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Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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People always find something to bitch about :-p |
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ekul

Joined: 04 Mar 2009 Location: [Mod Edit]
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Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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Before coming to Korea I had no idea that there was even a negative view of teachers here. I was seriously enthusiastic and thought I was going to have a really good experience. Which so far has been the case. However when I read this website it turns out that I am a loser who has come to Korea to have sex with Korean women and because I cannot get a job back in my home country.
Thanks for letting me know Dave's. Without you guys I'd never have known how much of a loser I was and would instead be enjoying myself in blissful ignorance teaching kids English. |
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Goku
Joined: 10 Dec 2008
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Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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Teaching is a prestegious proffession (supposedly)
But when you recruit people from all walks of life with little to no experience with it, you get a hodge podge of different fruits. A lot of them will inevitably be bad fruits.
Most of the hostility directed to us orginates from a whole bunch of teachers who have no idea what they were doing (not completely their fault, they expected training and never got it).They came up with games, candies and stickers and pass our crosswords to fill the time. While these are SOMEWHAT suitable for kindegarten and elementary schools, somehow they magically worked their way up to middle school and high school.
I know a high school teacher that passes out holiday word searches for the kids and has them eat candy the whole time.
Which is evidence of poor teacher training. So other Korean teachers will view us as lazy, good for nothing teachers. Only capable of running down to cotsco, buying bulk candy/stickers and printing off worksheets from websites (which most of the time isn't bad).
I didn't have much respect when I came here. I had to work to earn it. There's no doubt in my mind that people would peg me loser just for being a foreigner. But that was my expectation and I dealt with that problem. Now they see as hard working, strict, and motivated. But the majority of teachers won't pull their weight and it's just dragging our image down. |
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samcheokguy

Joined: 02 Nov 2008 Location: Samcheok G-do
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Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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Sadly, we are band aids on whales. In these rural schools, add learning disabilites, plus unwanted kids, plus fetal alcohol syndrome, plus the regionalism and social status that determine a lot of your life before you're born, and you end up with kids who don't do well in ANY subject. There is a vo-tech high school attached to my Middle School, and let me tell you, these kids KNOW what people think of them for going the low road. If my english class WASN"T fun, they just cut it.
-I agree that some teachers are far too much fun and games, but at some of these rural poor schools, I feel as if we are the only 'fun' some of these kids get.
-However the fact I 'teach' so little, and have so few conversations, is the reason I'm doing Uni in China this fall. I need to get back to teaching adults, and although it was fun, and interesting, I'd like to be challenged again. |
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Juregen
Joined: 30 May 2006
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Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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Yu_Bum_suk wrote: |
Anyone can come here and teach. The result is some of the world's best teachers and some of the most hopeless working side by side. |
For roughly the same money .... |
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justaguy
Joined: 01 Jan 2008 Location: seoul
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Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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You cannot control what other people think of you. It doesn't matter who's opinion it is, Korean or not. I don't care what anyone thinks of me. In the end, what others think really doesn't mean anything.
I don't understand why so many people actually care. |
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kiknkorea

Joined: 16 May 2008
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Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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Pwillig wrote: |
People always find something to bitch about :-p |
Truth |
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jdog2050

Joined: 17 Dec 2006
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Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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samcheokguy wrote: |
Sadly, we are band aids on whales. In these rural schools, add learning disabilites, plus unwanted kids, plus fetal alcohol syndrome, plus the regionalism and social status that determine a lot of your life before you're born, and you end up with kids who don't do well in ANY subject. There is a vo-tech high school attached to my Middle School, and let me tell you, these kids KNOW what people think of them for going the low road. If my english class WASN"T fun, they just cut it.
-I agree that some teachers are far too much fun and games, but at some of these rural poor schools, I feel as if we are the only 'fun' some of these kids get.
-However the fact I 'teach' so little, and have so few conversations, is the reason I'm doing Uni in China this fall. I need to get back to teaching adults, and although it was fun, and interesting, I'd like to be challenged again. |
That is not horribly different from Seoul, my friend. |
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kiknkorea

Joined: 16 May 2008
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Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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Goku wrote: |
Teaching is a prestegious proffession (supposedly)
But when you recruit people from all walks of life with little to no experience with it, you get a hodge podge of different fruits. A lot of them will inevitably be bad fruits.
Most of the hostility directed to us orginates from a whole bunch of teachers who have no idea what they were doing (not completely their fault, they expected training and never got it).They came up with games, candies and stickers and pass our crosswords to fill the time. While these are SOMEWHAT suitable for kindegarten and elementary schools, somehow they magically worked their way up to middle school and high school.
I know a high school teacher that passes out holiday word searches for the kids and has them eat candy the whole time.
Which is evidence of poor teacher training. So other Korean teachers will view us as lazy, good for nothing teachers. Only capable of running down to cotsco, buying bulk candy/stickers and printing off worksheets from websites (which most of the time isn't bad).
I didn't have much respect when I came here. I had to work to earn it. There's no doubt in my mind that people would peg me loser just for being a foreigner. But that was my expectation and I dealt with that problem. Now they see as hard working, strict, and motivated. But the majority of teachers won't pull their weight and it's just dragging our image down. |
Great post.
I guess the experience part is most important, although some teachers are just lazy or don't have the pride to do the job well. |
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Goku
Joined: 10 Dec 2008
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Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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samcheokguy wrote: |
Sadly, we are band aids on whales. In these rural schools, add learning disabilites, plus unwanted kids, plus fetal alcohol syndrome, plus the regionalism and social status that determine a lot of your life before you're born, and you end up with kids who don't do well in ANY subject. There is a vo-tech high school attached to my Middle School, and let me tell you, these kids KNOW what people think of them for going the low road. If my english class WASN"T fun, they just cut it.
-I agree that some teachers are far too much fun and games, but at some of these rural poor schools, I feel as if we are the only 'fun' some of these kids get.
-However the fact I 'teach' so little, and have so few conversations, is the reason I'm doing Uni in China this fall. I need to get back to teaching adults, and although it was fun, and interesting, I'd like to be challenged again. |
Realistically yes, I agree with that. The only thing that we can do of any benefit to the kids IS to teach them those games in that kind of situation.
Unfortunately, some Korean teachers will still view us as losers even if it's the best we can do.
In that type of situtation of lose lose. i'm glad I don't teach rural. There is very little reward and satisfaction as a teacher in that type of setting.
I understand what you mean samcheokguy. I have several students that can't even read in my classes. They seemed like lost causes and the only thing I can do for them is make English seem enteraining and interesting at best. Luckily the majority of my students can hold some form of conversation.
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Back to loser teachers ... I think demeanor has more to do with it now. Most foreigners I meet just don't come off as respectable people in my opinion. They seem standoffish, while being loud and obnoxious and incapable of self control.
I haven't met ONE single foreigner I could deem classy, sophistcated, or refined. Has anyone met anyone like that at all? I'm not bragging but I think I'm the closest thing to it. And that's pretty far to being on par with anyone back in the states. |
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samcheokguy

Joined: 02 Nov 2008 Location: Samcheok G-do
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Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: |
They seem standoffish, while being loud and obnoxious and incapable of self control. |
A sad but true description. I do not understand moving to another country, but not wanting to meet all kinds of people. I don't understand the people who say "I don't like GIs, or Americans, or Koreans, or one-legged French people." I really think its the money. You really do have people who think saving $12,000USD is the best thing in life. I understand working like a dog for $100,000 a year, but to live in Korea for this amount of money is bizzare. |
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Adventurer

Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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ekul wrote: |
Before coming to Korea I had no idea that there was even a negative view of teachers here. I was seriously enthusiastic and thought I was going to have a really good experience. Which so far has been the case. However when I read this website it turns out that I am a loser who has come to Korea to have sex with Korean women and because I cannot get a job back in my home country.
Thanks for letting me know Dave's. Without you guys I'd never have known how much of a loser I was and would instead be enjoying myself in blissful ignorance teaching kids English. |
There are some folks who do appreciate the foreign teachers over here.
Some folks are enthusiastic over here. I enjoy my job. I like going in there and teaching.
It's true some of us would have a hard time getting a job even before the recession. Some of us need to go back and get a master's degree. That's quite normal in so many cases. Some of us, however, do have credentials, certificates, degrees in business or computer expertise.
There is a massive mix of teachers, but some teachers here cannot stand the folks who drink excessively and walk around the streets of Seoul alcohol in hand which is illegal back home and not something Koreans generally do, though it's not illegal here.
There are also thousands of illegal teachers here, and in some cases they outnumber the people with E-2 visas. Also, some people who have taught before in the West and some who haven't, but are upstanding, frown upon the kind of language used by some people on Dave's that's inappropriate for teachers to use back home, who are supposed to at least pretend they're professional instead of mouthing off racist or x-rated stuff.
Only a small percentage of foreign men came here to have sex with Korean women. I think such statements come out of xenophobia.
Some maybe expect foreign men not to be men when they come here?
Foreign men come here and see Korean women, and they are women, and they want some action and/or dating. Of course, I am sure some guys use the women, but I am sure it goes both ways. I am sure there are Korean immigrants who have sex with white women. Who makes a big deal about that?
One problem is we are not allowed to unionize, and we are foreigners. We don't have any real control over our own profession, but we can as individuals be the damn best teachers we can be!
So go in there, teach, and teach and learn from your students!
And, I think Barry White was a damn good singer, and I can't get enough of soulful people, so be soulful and don't worry about the negativity:) |
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Straphanger
Joined: 09 Oct 2008 Location: Chilgok, Korea
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Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 6:40 pm Post subject: Re: Why is there so much controversy over teaching in Korea? |
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travelingfool wrote: |
Can someone tell me where the hostility comes from? |
What? Who? Maybe if you quit kvetching, focus, and DO YOUR JOB, you might not believe all the crap you see here. |
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