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Mississippi Burning Up-date

 
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 8:02 am    Post subject: Mississippi Burning Up-date Reply with quote

It's only 41 years late.

Didn't know this trial was going on? That's because the media was more interested in MJ's trial and the teenage girl lost in Aruba. Guess justice for three murders of historic importance are less important than a pop star and a teenage blond girl. (I'm not callous about the other situations but question their national importance.)


Ex-Klansman Gets 60 Years for 1964 Murders
By EMILY WAGSTER PETTUS, Associated Press Writer
40 minutes ago

One-time Ku Klux Klan leader Edgar Ray Killen was sentenced to 60 years in prison for masterminding the 1964 slayings of three civil rights workers, an event that galvanized the fight for racial equality in the Deep South.

Killen returned to court two days after being convicted on three counts of manslaughter 41 years after Michael Schwerner, James Chaney and Andrew Goodman were killed. He received 20 years for each of the three counts of manslaughter.

Killen, 80, is the only person who has faced state murder charges in the case. He was tried on three murder counts, but at the request of prosecutors, Circuit Judge Marcus Gordon allowed jurors to also consider the lesser charge of manslaughter.

Gordon did not allow statements from the victims' or the defendant's families, District Attorney Mark Duncan said.

Defense attorney James McIntyre has said he will appeal, arguing that the jury should not have been allowed to consider manslaughter. Gordon will hear a motion for a new trial on Monday.

With a murder charge, prosecutors had to prove intent to kill and a conviction would have carried life in prison. With a manslaughter charge, prosecutors had to prove only that a victim died while another crime was being committed.

Chaney was a black Mississippian and Schwerner and Goodman were white New Yorkers. The three civil-rights volunteers were intercepted by Klansmen in their station wagon on June 21, 1964, and shot to death. After a massive FBI search, the bodies were found 44 days later, buried in an earthen dam.

The slayings helped spur passage of the landmark Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the FBI's search for evidence was dramatized in the 1988 movie "Mississippi Burning."

Killen, a sawmill operator and part-time Baptist minister, has been held in Neshoba County Jail since his conviction.
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Mr. Literal



Joined: 03 Jul 2003
Location: Third rock from the Sun.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But remember that we're supposed to feel sorry for him because he's 80 years of age, in a wheelchair (as a result of breaking both legs in a tree-cutting accident) and occassionally needs a shot of oxygen to aid his breathing.

Putting Grandpa in jail, shame on us!

p.s.: that last statement wasn't meant to be taken "literally."
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gypsyfish



Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's better than not being procecuted at all.

This should help change attitudes about the south, but I doubt it will. I lived in Mississippi in 1968 and the times have completely changed, but many people think it's the same.

There's a lot of ignorance on both sides of the Mason-Dixon Line.
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dogbert



Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210

PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 5:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Mississippi Burning Up-date Reply with quote

Ya-ta Boy wrote:
It's only 41 years late.

Didn't know this trial was going on? That's because the media was more interested in MJ's trial and the teenage girl lost in Aruba. Guess justice for three murders of historic importance are less important than a pop star and a teenage blond girl. (I'm not callous about the other situations but question their national importance.)


Guess it depends on your sources, but I've certainly read/heard my fill of the hounding of this old man, far more than the (interestingly enough) reverse situation in Aruba.
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Guess it depends on your sources, but I've certainly read/heard my fill of the hounding of this old man, far more than the (interestingly enough) reverse situation in Aruba.



I was going by the amount of coverage on the news/entertainment shows that gave an incredible amount of time to those other stories and very little about this one. It's my impression that the media is a lot more interested in stories about sex and pretty people than cases of historic importance.

Has anyone had the misfortune to see the Nancy Grace show yet? She's a former prosecuter from Atlanta (?) who now has a 'news' show that focuses on trials. My 81 year old mom says she wants to slap her.
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gypsyfish



Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 5:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya-ta,

I'll hold her while mom does the slapping. Wink

I've seen her on Larry King and she was interesting the first time I saw her. She gets old real quick. She is so sure that she's right and every accused person is guilty.

She hounded (on TV) a guy who was questioned about the girl from, I think, Salt Lake City who was kidnapped from her home. The guy had been convicted of some kind of sex offense, but served his time and was released. The police did not arrest him, but Nancy was sure he did it. The guy committed suicide supposedly because of all the publicity.

When the girl was later (miraculously) found, having been kidnapped by some other guy, Larry King had the dead guys wife (or girlfriend) on with Nancy. Nancy refused to apologise or show any sympathy to the woman. Her attitude was that the guy appeared to be guilty and she had nothing to apologise for. I'm not saying she had anything to do with his suicide, but she showed no class, either.
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guangho



Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Location: a spot full of deception, stupidity, and public micturation and thus unfit for longterm residency

PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 6:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. Literal wrote:
But remember that we're supposed to feel sorry for him because he's 80 years of age, in a wheelchair (as a result of breaking both legs in a tree-cutting accident) and occassionally needs a shot of oxygen to aid his breathing.

Putting Grandpa in jail, shame on us!

p.s.: that last statement wasn't meant to be taken "literally."



He'll have a fine time down at Parchman, I hope.
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I'll hold her while mom does the slapping



gypsyfish,

Mom says it's a deal! She's out in the backyard now, practicing her swing.
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee



Joined: 25 May 2003

PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2009 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1JX07MCCL4

Prosecute Gene Hackman for war crimes
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Prosecute Gene Hackman for war crimes




You're being too cryptic by half, bringing up a 4 year old thread just for a movie clip.

What's on your mind, Joo?
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Gollywog



Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Location: Debussy's brain

PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya-ta Boy wrote:

Quote:

Didn't know this trial was going on? That's because the media was more interested in MJ's trial and the teenage girl lost in Aruba.


I am so flabbergasted by this outrageous accusation I hardly know where to start.

You have the nerve to blame the media, when it was the media that was the reason this trial took place at all. And in the same breath you refer to the movie "Mississippi Burning," with no evidence from any of the posters of understanding of how historically inaccurate this movie is.

Do you realize when the trial of Ray Killen took place? He was convicted in June 2005. There was intense coverage of the trial by all national media in the United States, as well as many foreign media. Killen's conviction was the lead story of every news outlet in the country, from what I could tell -- and I was watching the news at the time.

What were you all doing in June 2005?

Why was there a trial of Killen so many decades after the fact? The credit goes to a reporter, Jerry Mitchell, with the Jackson, Mississippi Clarion-Ledger:

http://www.clarionledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/99999999/SPECIAL17/60416008/

Mitchell's courage and persistence in the face of threats from racists and racist groups is inspiring. But he did not act alone. He had the support of his newspaper, and his newspaper chain, Gannet, the largest in the U.S. His coverage went out across the nation through Gannet and the Associated Press, and was echoed by reporter from other media outlets. I was aware of his work, and followed his coverage well before the conviction.

Here is more about the trial and Mitchell's reporting:

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/race_relations/jan-june05/killen_6-21.html

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5022996

http://www.ajr.org/article_printable.asp?id=3852

http://www.onthemedia.org/transcripts/2008/08/15/04

http://www.collegenews.org/x5437.xml

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgar_Ray_Killen

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mississippi_civil_rights_workers_murders

As to the movie, while it may have captured something of the racist spirit of the times and place, it is so filled with historical accuracy that it is difficult to tell what is true and what is fiction.

Quote:
To those familiar with that place and time, the brutal intimidation of the black people of Neshoba County, also a historic reality although compressed in time, is evocative.


http://movies.nytimes.com/movie/review?res=940DE2DA1F30F937A35751C1A96E948260

It is entertaining, but it should not be viewed to learn history:
Quote:

The historical inaccuracies were a problem for most people astute enough to spot them. The manipulation of history was rampant throughout the film. The climax of the movie where the FBI uses terror tactics against the Klan was entirely fabricated by the director. This is unfortunate for the average viewer who is uninformed on the history of the civil rights movement and the murder of the three activists. Some may sit through the film and come out believing that a great deal of the actions that transpired in the film were realistic. This is sad.


http://course1.winona.edu/pjohnson/h140/mississippi.htm

With the internet, anyone can check the true history of this case and compare it against the movie. However, I have seen more than one version.

Here is an excerpt of the movie review from the New York Times. Given the reporter's credentials, I assume it is as accurate as it gets:
Quote:

December 4, 1988
FILM; Fact vs. Fiction in Mississippi
By WAYNE KING; Wayne King is a Times reporter who covered the civil-rights movement during the 1960's.

LEAD: It was a hot Sunday afternoon in June of 1964 when three young civil-rights workers - Michael Schwerner, Andrew Goodman and James Chaney - were arrested on a trumped-up speeding charge outside Philadelphia, Miss. They were held for eight hours, then released in the deepening darkness of rural Mississippi.

It was a hot Sunday afternoon in June of 1964 when three young civil-rights workers - Michael Schwerner, Andrew Goodman and James Chaney - were arrested on a trumped-up speeding charge outside Philadelphia, Miss. They were held for eight hours, then released in the deepening darkness of rural Mississippi. By prearrangement, they were again stopped on a lonely road by the same Neshoba County deputy sheriff who had arrested them earlier, this time accompanied by a party of Ku Klux Klansmen. They were murdered in cold blood, transported to an earthen dam several miles away and buried with a bulldozer.

More than 150 F.B.I. agents ultimately descended on Neshoba County to investigate the disappearance of the civil-rights workers, two of them, Goodman and Schwerner, whites from New York, and the third, Chaney, a black who lived in Neshoba County.

It was 44 days before the investigators penetrated the racist veil of silence that enveloped the case and found the bodies. Goodman, horribly, had a ball of the Mississippi clay in which he was buried squeezed tightly in his hand, indicating that he had not been dead when the bulldozer sealed him into the makeshift grave.

Another three years passed before some of those responsible, Neshoba County Deputy Sheriff Cecil Price and six others, including Klan Imperial Wizard Sam Bowers, were convicted of civil-rights violations and given prison terms of up to 10 years. None served more than five. There is no Federal murder statute covering such crimes, and no state charges against the men were ever brought in Mississippi.

Those are the facts - the ''true facts'' as some put it in these days of relative reality - on which the British director Alan Parker's film ''Mississippi Burning'' is based.


http://movies.nytimes.com/movie/review?res=940DE2DA1F30F937A35751C1A96E948260

I urge everyone to read this entire review to better understand the film the true history of this event.

Here's the part that has always stuck in my mind:

Quote:
But Mr. Parker and Mr. Gerolmo heighten the reality. The real-life truth of the F.B.I.'s long investigation in Neshoba County was that it was neither very efficient, nor, in the end, particularly dramatic.

In the film, the key revelation in the case comes when Mr. Hackman, at once courtly and cynical, uses seduction as a means of obtaining information. The reality is less romantic. The actual ''seduction'' was a $30,000 F.B.I. payoff to a Klan informant.


The FBI didn't have a witness relocation program back then, so this person who informed from within on the Klan needed to do a little relocation of his own, hence the need for some substantial cash. But that's how they solved the case and found the body: a cash reward. Not the stuff of dramatic movies.

"Mississippi Burning" is useful in conveying to a new generation the horrors of racism from an earlier era that is beginning to fade from memory. another movie, "Rosewood," is actually more accurate (though it understates what happened) and far more horrifying. But not everyone in the South was a violent racist. The movie "Driving Miss Daisy" provides a more balanced view of the problem, and how people and times evolved during the civil rights era.

I wish that Koreans and people of other countries would learn from America's mistakes, as well as how we corrected the problem of racism. It took a lot of hard work, courage, lobbying and laws -- and time. It makes me profoundly sad to see that some Koreans consider racism a good thing, and are teaching it to their children. There are Koreans who don't just hate Blacks, they hate all foreigners, and have a hierarchy of hatred assigned to people of all nationalities. To be a foreigner living in Korea is to get a tiny taste of what it must have been like to be a Black in the South in the old days. I'm afraid it will take a very long time to correct the mistakes Koreans are making today.

Whenever you have people forming opinions based on ignorance and anger you are going to have the roots of racism.
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Gollywog



Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Location: Debussy's brain

PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2009 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have seen some astonishing comments about America and racism on this site and other Korean sites, sometimes stating that everyone knows that America is the most racist country in the world.

I don't think that people who make such comments have been to the American South in recent years, or perhaps anywhere in the United States. Heck, I wonder if they have even read an American newspaper in the past six months. Things have changed.

There is a story in the New York Times today about the election of a black mayor in Philadelphia, Mississippi. This is hardly the first black official elected in the South; there are plenty of black mayors and city councilmen and sheriffs and even Congressmen. But this is news because a) this is a city of 73,000 people that is mostly white, and b) it is where James Chaney, Andrew Goodman and Michael Schwerner were killed in 1964 while registering blacks to vote.

This week, James A. Young, a Pentecostal minister and former county supervisor, was elected mayor. He was also the lone black child in his sixth grade class when the school was integrated in the 1960s.

There are still racists in America, just as there are still stupid people in America -- we saw that in the recent election. But racists do not run America, and have not for a long time. We got to this point through the courage of a lot of fine people, black and white, willing to stand up and risk their jobs, their homes and even their lives.

The lessons I wish other countries would learn is first, do not go down the path of bigotry and racism, and second, individuals who are willing to speak out about social wrongs can make a difference.

Quote:

First Black Mayor in City Known for Klan Killings
By ROBBIE BROWN

The city of Philadelphia, Miss., where members of the Ku Klux Klan killed three civil rights workers in 1964 in one of the era�s most infamous acts, on Tuesday elected its first black mayor.

James A. Young, a Pentecostal minister and former county supervisor, narrowly beat the incumbent, Rayburn Waddell, in the Democratic primary. There is no Republican challenger.

The results, announced Wednesday night, were a turning point for a mostly white city of 7,300 people in east-central Mississippi still haunted by the killings, which captured front-page headlines across the nation and were featured in the 1988 film �Mississippi Burning.�

�This shows a complete change of attitude and a desire to move forward,� said Mr. Young, 53, a Philadelphia native who integrated the local elementary school as the only black student in his sixth-grade class in the mid-1960s. �When I campaigned, the signs on the doors said, �Welcome,� and I actually felt welcome.�

Mississippi has the largest number of black elected officials in the country, but they rarely come from majority-white electorates, said Joseph Crespino, an expert in Mississippi history at Emory University. Mr. Crespino called Mr. Young�s victory �remarkable.�

�I think this speaks well to the town of Philadelphia,� he said. �Residents there have lived with the memory and the trauma of the killings for many decades.�

The city is 56 percent white, 40 percent black and 2 percent American Indian, according to the Census Bureau.

On June 21, 1964, three civil rights workers who were registering voters in Philadelphia � James Chaney, who was black, and Andrew Goodman and Michael Schwerner, who were white � were murdered.

In a 1967 trial, seven of 18 defendants were convicted of conspiracy. Then in 2005, Edgar Ray Killen, an 80-year-old former Klansman, was convicted of manslaughter for the killings and sentenced to 60 years in prison.

Like so many other Southern cities in the civil rights era, Philadelphia had its national image cemented permanently by one infamous event. But this week, residents saw an opportunity for redefinition.

�It will erase the thought that we�re just a Southern racist town,� said Dorothy Webb, 72, a white retired school principal who said she had voted for Mr. Young.

Mr. Young said that he recalled the cold stares of his all-white classmates at Neshoba Central Elementary School, but that in recent years, racial tensions had abated.

�There was no real negativism in this campaign,� he said, adding, �There was no door slammed in my face.�

Mr. Young campaigned on a shoestring budget, with a dozen workers and volunteers, no yard signs, buttons or T-shirts. His campaign staff credits the Obama campaign with increasing the registration of black and young voters in Philadelphia.

But Mr. Young said the main advantage was his willingness to campaign in all neighborhoods, white and black, adding, �I even talked to my opponent�s mother.�


http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/22/us/22mayor.html?hp
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