Korean Job Discussion Forums

[RedRob]

This is a bit of a grammar question.
Why do we take a shower? Where do we take it and why?


This comes from one of my kids, we can have a shower, take a shower.
Here's what the kid said....."this morning I was doing my hair in the shower"
.Sweet. No probs there.
But then she said"I was doing a shower this morning" Nonsense.

"Why is that wrong teacher?" Being the educated bloke that I am, I said buggered if I know shorty, I ll get back to you on that one.

Take a shower
Have a shower
Make a shower
Do a shower

I could also "draw" a bath, but I've never heard anyone say "make" a bath.
Why not.

[Shincheon_Blues]

In Korean you can take a noun plus the verb ha-da (to do) and make a sentence. She's trying to apply Korean grammar to English.

If my explanation isn't cutting it for you, perhaps someone can explain it better...

[peppermint]

Any woman will tell you, you don't "do" your hair in the shower- you wait till it's dry.

do your hair

do homework

just do it.

The noun following "do" recieves the action, whereas when you talk about a shower, you recieve the shower- not the other way around.

I think people say "draw a bath" because you used to have to draw water up from the well to fill the bathtub. ( ah the good old days! )

Just a guess

[edoras]

I agree with the above comment.

I usually say something like although I understand what you said, its wrong because its not idiomatically correct.

[Ya-ta Boy]

These situations are where I shrug my shoulders and say that some words come in 'pairs' and have to be memorized. There is not necessarily a logic to it.

The 'logic' is similar to the expression: I'll meet you AT the corner of Elm and Oak Streets. Why 'at'? Just because that is how we say it, therefore, it is in the grammar books that way.

PS: I think the reason we can 'draw' both a picture and a bath is because one meaning of draw is to fill a container...ie draw a beer/draught beer: "I'll have a draw, please."

[kiwiboy_nz_99]

Peppermint sounds convincing on that one, the fancy terms are "agent" and "patient" refering to whether the subject is acting or acted upon.

Unfortunately there are not always rules for the way nouns behave, especially what verbs they collocate with. Prepositions are worse.

[VanIslander]

The original poster asks: "Why do we take a shower? Where do we take it and why?"

Here's my take:

"Take" is an ACTION verb, as it is in "take a walk". And in most of its usages, we "take" something somewhere, indicating CHANGE OF LOCATION.

So, "take a shower" is simply a phrasic extension of meaning based on overlapping characteristics with past usages. Some call the new use metaphoric until it becomes conventional. The important thing is that it is understood.

Language is creative. People make new sentences all the time.
Do you allow your students to do so?

As ESL teachers we sometimes treat words as if they are fossilized. I myself have had to relax my focus on grammar rules to allow for a variety of expressions.

I tell my students that a phrase like "doing a shower" is okay because I understand, but I also say it's not usually said and it's not good grammar. Yet it IS okay. If doing homework, doing chores, doing dishes, doing exercises and doing my hair is often said, then doing a shower will be clearly understood. So it's okay. Especially for all those students who will never get near a TOEIC test or will communicate with other second language users. A Pakistani and a Korean traveller can communicate more clearly with each other by saying "doing a shower" than by saying "taking a shower" if one of the two has never encountered the latter. As the op stated: Where do we take it? It takes an extra moment to understand for the first time.

There's a difference between meaning and grammar when a student says something everybody clearly understands, like "doing a shower". I tell my students that the phrase is okay. I understand. They are using "doing" correctly and "shower" correctly. And it's clear communication. Then I introduce the phrases most often used.

Once I joking said: "Doing a shower? What are you doing? Washing your feet? Your big toe? Your stomach? Pleeease don't say." I now wonder if we don't often say "doing a shower" because we usually visualize our doings.

Anyways, when you ask a student "What are you going to do before bedtime?" and the student says "I am going to do a shower" you can say it's okay, but not great. Then talk about grammatical conventions. Personally I might applause the sentence for its otherwise good form.

[ryleeys]

Maybe "take a shower" is left over from the days when you actually had to leave your house in order to shower... either going to a communal place or outside under a faucet... therefore there is a change of location. Or even in a college dorm environment where you walk down the hall to the shower and take your shower belongings with you. Is the shower the water, or the act of washing? If it's washing, then you can argue by taking your shampoo and soap with you, you are taking your shower with you to the bathroom.

[maxxx_power]

Take my wife, please!

Baaaadaaabooom cha

[schwa]

In colloquial speech I could see myself saying "Yah, I gotta do a shower." Runs against the usual collocation but conveys meaning.

Reminds me of a guy in one of my classes & try as I might I cant correct this misusage:

me: "What did you do on the weekend?"
him: "I went to the bathroom."

Um, no. Bathhouse, public bath, spa, even sauna, but not that.

[kangnamdragon]

Maybe it implies taking time to do something. We also:

take a bath
take a walk
take a ride
take a break
take some time
take a moment....

[Skarp]

And the answer is........










.................................................... collocation


Do a search - go on - do it now....


An amazing (Polish!) discovery about English (and other languages too, no doubt) and one that makes you wonder how you missed it all these years....

Skarp

[intergalactic]

Other Aussies correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think we take showers or take walks in Australia. We only have showers and go for walks.
I wonder why the difference?