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beercanman
Joined: 16 May 2009
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 Posted: Mon May 25, 2009 6:44 pm Post subject: Tricky grammar questions |
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I have to proofread quizzes. Some of the questions are not easy to answer.
Here are some examples:
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I don't think it's fair to judge a person ____ their clothes. (from? on?)
[I like "on" better.]
Books are the most important records we keep ____ man's thoughts, ideas and feelings. (of? on?) [I'd go with "of" but is "on" wrong?]
The visitors ___ the castle are asked not to take photographs. (of? to?)
Although these were good students, ______ had a score above 60. (none? no one?) [Is "none" better than "no one"]
If it _______for the snow, we could have climbed the mountain. (were not? had not been?) [had not been seems better?]
If she ________, she would have met my brother. (came? had come?)
_________ more careful, the mistake would not have been made. (If he were? Had he been? If he would have been?)
He described the town as if he _______ it himself. (saw? had seen?)
It is time the government ________ measures to protect the animals, (takes? took?)
I'd rather you ________ do anything about it for the time being. (don't? didn't?) ["didn't" seems better, not sure if "don't" is incorrect though]
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Ugh. |
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RACETRAITOR
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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| Posted: Mon May 25, 2009 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Pretty awful. If you're proofreading them, maybe you should change one of the answers so it's objectively wrong. |
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billybrobby
Joined: 09 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Mon May 25, 2009 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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| I only bothered to read the first 5 but they were all cases where both words would be correct. I agree that it _____ be changed. (must? should?) |
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yawarakaijin
Joined: 08 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Mon May 25, 2009 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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If that is an actual quiz, the person who made it should be shot. Like kids don't have enough stress already learning a foreign language.
I'd slap the teacher about the head with a thick pile of those tests, all the while asking "does it hurt more when I hit you on the left side or the right side of the face?" |
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pkang0202
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Mon May 25, 2009 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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| billybrobby wrote: |
| I only bothered to read the first 5 but they were all cases where both words would be correct. |
It frustrates me to no end how the Korean English teachers can not accept the fact that there can be 2 correct answers. It's always, "which one is MORE correct" or "which one is used more often". |
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Joe666
Joined: 19 Nov 2008
Location: Jesus it's hot down here!
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| Posted: Mon May 25, 2009 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Beercan - You never stated who or what made the quiz. I am assuming a Korean English teacher made the quiz and you got nailed correcting it! Yes? |
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beercanman
Joined: 16 May 2009
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| Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 7:22 am Post subject: |
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Nah, I work in China, and proofreading is my job. Someone gave me a hundred questions with ABCD choices. Close to twenty of them were like this. "Had been/was etc...this is sorta typical what I deal with, but thisone paper in particular was especially nuts. The kids got it rough here too. All tests all the time it seems. Need to know the minutiae of fine grammar points I guess...
"When's your birthday?"
"Uh..."
(sorry to you all you hard working and smart people out there who have studied English for years, but if you cannot quickly tell me your birthday, don't you suppose something is wrong?) |
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Joe666
Joined: 19 Nov 2008
Location: Jesus it's hot down here!
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| Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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Here's my abominable answers:
1 yes "on", but it should be "by"
2 yes "of", but should be "of a"
3 I would say "of", tough one
4 "no one"
5 yes "had not been", but wasn't is what I would say
6 "had come" sounds more classic, again tough one
7 All seem OK
8 "had seen", I would have maybe used "viewed"
9 "takes"
10 Ya "didn't seems better
That's a shitty task at best. Just burn the document and call it a day! |
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FMPJ
Joined: 03 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 4:35 pm Post subject: Re: Tricky grammar questions |
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| beercanman wrote: |
I have to proofread quizzes. Some of the questions are not easy to answer.
Here are some examples:
===================================================
I don't think it's fair to judge a person ____ their clothes. (from? on?)
[I like "on" better.]
Books are the most important records we keep ____ man's thoughts, ideas and feelings. (of? on?) [I'd go with "of" but is "on" wrong?]
The visitors ___ the castle are asked not to take photographs. (of? to?)
Although these were good students, ______ had a score above 60. (none? no one?) [Is "none" better than "no one"]
If it _______for the snow, we could have climbed the mountain. (were not? had not been?) [had not been seems better?]
If she ________, she would have met my brother. (came? had come?)
_________ more careful, the mistake would not have been made. (If he were? Had he been? If he would have been?)
He described the town as if he _______ it himself. (saw? had seen?)
It is time the government ________ measures to protect the animals, (takes? took?)
I'd rather you ________ do anything about it for the time being. (don't? didn't?) ["didn't" seems better, not sure if "don't" is incorrect though]
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Ugh. |
1. on -- but not a very good question as "judge by" is a stronger collocation
2. of -- "keep records of" is strong collocation, a Google search of this construction vs. "keep records on" makes it pretty clear.
3. to
4. none -- "of them" is omitted and implied. "No one" would not limited to the students mentioned in the preceding dependent clause.
5. were not
6. had come
7. Had he been or if he had been (note especially that "if he would have been...he would have/could have" is a common error often tested--it's used a lot in speech but is considered grammatically non-standard.
8. had seen
9. took (or "take," which would be proper use of the last gasp of the subjunctive) -- bad question, though, as the subjunctive in constructions like this is in between use and obsolescence
10. don't ("for the time being" makes this a present time reference)
So on closer look, #1 and #9 are pretty bad questions, and #2 is a little bit of a "gotcha" question that few could be expected to answer with any degree of confidence. The rest are okay, if a little difficult in that they demand some formal knowledge of grammar and simply aren't used in many "non-standard" dialects. |
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beercanman
Joined: 16 May 2009
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| Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 6:27 pm Post subject: Re: Tricky grammar questions |
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| FMPJ wrote: |
So on closer look, #1 and #9 are pretty bad questions, and #2 is a little bit of a "gotcha" question that few could be expected to answer with any degree of confidence. The rest are okay, if a little difficult in that they demand some formal knowledge of grammar and simply aren't used in many "non-standard" dialects. |
You did well then, but most of us don't know this stuff. I'm checking around the internet to try to get answers...
What I find strange is that few (well-educated) native speakers could do well with the "okay" questions probably because few of us have this pedantic (?) grammar knowledge, yet this is the type of stuff middle and high school students in China are expected to tackle. I'm not sure what the reasoning is, but everything is pretty much geared toward (s?) passing tests instead of gaining useful knowledge, or so it seems anyway.
I'm sure there are great writers who don't bother getting all their words "correct" but instead just try to write a good story. |
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FMPJ
Joined: 03 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 10:26 pm Post subject: Re: Tricky grammar questions |
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| beercanman wrote: |
| I'm sure there are great writers who don't bother getting all their words "correct" but instead just try to write a good story. |
Of course. Deep knowledge of grammar, usage, and mechanics is hardly a requirement of either communication or expression, and, as we all know, is a sure-fire way to lose friends:
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A: I'm so mad! My brother did better than me on the test!
B: Better than "I," you mean--there's an omitted but implied verb, "did," so the pronoun must take the subjective case.
A: You're a loser. Seriously. Good luck ever finding a girlfriend or even a friend. |
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