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wsiggins
Joined: 08 Jun 2008
Location: Chuncheon, Gangwon do
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 Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 5:55 pm Post subject: EPIK teachers removed by 2015? |
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I was talking to an experienced EPIK teacher this weekend and she told me that Korea will eventually be hiring Korean 'coversationalist' teachers to replace us (the native English teachers) by 2015.
Is this really going to happen? |
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afsjesse
Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Location: Kickin' it in 'Kato town.
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| Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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| I know it's their policy to replace us eventually. I doubt it will be that soon. Although this country has surprised me. I don't think they'll remove the program entirely, as the most qualified of people they will still need for the most prestigious schools. But who know? |
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nicam
Joined: 14 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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Funny, I've yet to meet a Korean English teacher who actually speaks English. The system obviously needs a complete overhaul, as it is highly ineffective as it is with proficient native speakers in the classrooms, so imagine the increase in futility that will come with Korean English 'conversationalist' teachers who cannot speak English. Korea really needs to address the root of the problem already rather than setting goals to toss all foreigners out of the country (a xenophobic goal it seems).
I teach a fellow teacher who told me that he did not get his dream job because he couldn't speak English, despite having studied it for 6 years, so he became a teacher. When I asked him why (already knowing damn well) he laughed and told me that Korean English teachers can read and write, but cannot speak. No, ya don't say? |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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| afsjesse wrote: |
| I know it's their policy to replace us eventually. I doubt it will be that soon. Although this country has surprised me. I don't think they'll remove the program entirely, as the most qualified of people they will still need for the most prestigious schools. But who know? |
All of those 'Korean conversation' teachers don't exist and still won't exist by 2015. The younger KETs and student teachers I've seen have also proven that there'll still be a strong need for FTs by then. This seems about as likely as KETs using English as the only language of instruction by 2015. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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[yawn]
At first it was 2000.
Then it was 2005.
Then it was pushed to 2010.
Now it's 2015?
Every so often this topic comes up on this site with people citing all these dates as the deadline for getting rid of teachers.
So what is the real deadline? Anybody want to know?
The truth is that NOBODY knows...and anyone who claims a specific date is feeding you B.S.
Yes, they are planning to replace us at some point. No, it will not be anytime soon (as long as the English craze lasts in Korea).
Nor would I be suprised if their oft-mooted plans to replace us are just a smoke screen to placate the section of the public who don't have jobs or ones like ours.
We're cheaper and easier to get rid of than local teachers who have a strong and militant union to fight for their rights and pay raises. |
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Rory_Calhoun27
Joined: 14 Feb 2009
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| Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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I assume it is just the goal to see 2015 come, declare victory even though no real achievements have been made, and move on. I dont know how Middle and high school books are, but all the elementary levels seem more or as interested in playing games than actually learning English.
And I understand the need for games for education at the age, but you also have to actually practice on a consistent basis, which is sorely missing in the ele. material. It's the same reason why hagwons will continue to have a niche- parents actually want their kids to learn and retain the stuff in a somewhat meaningful way |
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Aelric
Joined: 02 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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If that is what they really want, they should round up the best among us (I would not be included), hike up the pay about 300% and have us teach English as part of the teaching certificate training program with a strict pass/fail policy for those who will teach the subject of English. I could see 2015 in that case, if they started right now.
Hell, maybe that is what is already happening, barring that pass/fail policy. Either way, I don't plan on being here in 2015 and neither should any of you unless you got married. |
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nicam
Joined: 14 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| If that is what they really want, they should round up the best among us (I would not be included), hike up the pay about 300% and have us teach English as part of the teaching certificate training program with a strict pass/fail policy for those who will teach the subject of English. I could see 2015 in that case, if they started right now. |
Yup. |
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Smee
Joined: 24 Dec 2004
Location: Jeollanam-do
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| Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, this comes up every so often. One presidential candidate I believe---don't have a link for it---talked about phasing us out, while Lee Myung-bak was all about bringing more in. I've documented the trend a little:
"5000 English teachers being recruited to replace us."
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The Korean instructors will receive about 26 million won ($18,882) in annual pay on a one-year contract and can renew for up to four years at one school. In comparison, native English teachers receive about 30 million won.
``Foreign native English speakers cannot teach students without Korean teachers, but the newly recruited teachers can teach on their own. We expect these instructors will replace foreign teachers over the long term,'' Euh added. |
Stupid.
http://briandeutsch.blogspot.com/2009/03/5000-korean-english-teachers-being.html
"4000 English 'lecturers' coming by 2010."
http://briandeutsch.blogspot.com/2008/11/4000-english-lecturers-coming-in-2010.html
"More money going into English education next year."
http://briandeutsch.blogspot.com/2008/10/more-money-going-into-english-education.html
YBS is right, though, the younger teachers aren't much better than the older ones. I don't think I'm exaggerating when I say that I haven't met a Korean English teacher who can produce a sentence without making an error in grammar, usage, or pronunciation. Seriously. Yes, yes, I know that in Korea English is taught entirely toward the test, and that anybody with a textbook can thus teach English as a subject. (Doesn't help, of course, that these tests and their textbooks are also full of errors and careless mistakes.) But, these "lecturers" are expected to come in and eventually phase us out. Where are they going to find 4,000 Korean English teachers who:
(a) can speak English well
(b) are willing to speak English in front of students
(c) are strong enough in English to resist the temptation to slip into Korean every few seconds
(d) are willing to get paid less than "real" teachers, even though their skills are in more demand?
Even though these "lecturers" are not certified---see the first and second links---they have a skill that most "real" teachers don't: the ability to speak English.
Thing is, these lecturers are probably not, in reality, going to replace us. As you probably know, many schools don't even have English teachers. I've cotaught with a gym teacher, a science teacher, and a school nurse, because in rural schools there was no fulltime English teacher. And, there is a need to hire more teachers for these after-hours classes---especially if public school programs are being developed to replace hagwon. It's interesting to note these teachers are getting resistance as well from the union for being, wait for it, "unqualified." Well, I hate to be such a jerk to K-English teachers, but come on, if you suck at English you shouldn't be teaching it. Hell, that goes for NSETs, too. But quit throwing around "unqualified" when your own teachers have proven time and time and time again that they're not only unwilling but also unable to do the job. I touched on that in the Herald a couple months ago. |
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gangwonbound
Joined: 27 Apr 2009
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| Posted: Mon May 25, 2009 4:53 am Post subject: |
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| I can understand trying to phase EPIK teachers out of the system...but only if they hired teachers who have gone to teacher's college...ie I guess Qualified teachers - been to teacher's college in a foreign country...That would be nice but I don't think they could find that many qualified teachers to fill all the available position...But not too sure. |
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Sadebugo1
Joined: 11 May 2003
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| Posted: Mon May 25, 2009 5:41 am Post subject: |
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| gangwonbound wrote: |
| I can understand trying to phase EPIK teachers out of the system...but only if they hired teachers who have gone to teacher's college...ie I guess Qualified teachers - been to teacher's college in a foreign country...That would be nice but I don't think they could find that many qualified teachers to fill all the available position...But not too sure. |
No, you're correct. Most certified teachers have jobs in their own countries. Some might want to take a year off but, even then, they would probably seek employment in international schools rather than the EPIK program. EPIK has always overestimated its prestige and ability to attract teachers. In its first expanded year in '96, they claimed they would only hire those with an MA in the field. Two of my colleagues applied with only BAs and were rejected. I applied one month later with the same qualifications and was hired. By then, they realized they could never get the 500 MA-qualified instructors they wanted at the time. Things have only gotten worse since.
Sadebugo
http://travldawrld.blogspot.com/ |
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gangwonbound
Joined: 27 Apr 2009
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| Posted: Mon May 25, 2009 6:09 am Post subject: |
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| Yeah I agree. |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Mon May 25, 2009 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Smee wrote: |
Yeah, this comes up every so often. One presidential candidate I believe---don't have a link for it---talked about phasing us out, while Lee Myung-bak was all about bringing more in. I've documented the trend a little:
"5000 English teachers being recruited to replace us."
| Quote: |
The Korean instructors will receive about 26 million won ($18,882) in annual pay on a one-year contract and can renew for up to four years at one school. In comparison, native English teachers receive about 30 million won.
``Foreign native English speakers cannot teach students without Korean teachers, but the newly recruited teachers can teach on their own. We expect these instructors will replace foreign teachers over the long term,'' Euh added. |
Stupid.
http://briandeutsch.blogspot.com/2009/03/5000-korean-english-teachers-being.html
"4000 English 'lecturers' coming by 2010."
http://briandeutsch.blogspot.com/2008/11/4000-english-lecturers-coming-in-2010.html
"More money going into English education next year."
http://briandeutsch.blogspot.com/2008/10/more-money-going-into-english-education.html
YBS is right, though, the younger teachers aren't much better than the older ones. I don't think I'm exaggerating when I say that I haven't met a Korean English teacher who can produce a sentence without making an error in grammar, usage, or pronunciation. Seriously. Yes, yes, I know that in Korea English is taught entirely toward the test, and that anybody with a textbook can thus teach English as a subject. (Doesn't help, of course, that these tests and their textbooks are also full of errors and careless mistakes.) But, these "lecturers" are expected to come in and eventually phase us out. Where are they going to find 4,000 Korean English teachers who:
(a) can speak English well
(b) are willing to speak English in front of students
(c) are strong enough in English to resist the temptation to slip into Korean every few seconds
(d) are willing to get paid less than "real" teachers, even though their skills are in more demand?
Even though these "lecturers" are not certified---see the first and second links---they have a skill that most "real" teachers don't: the ability to speak English.
Thing is, these lecturers are probably not, in reality, going to replace us. As you probably know, many schools don't even have English teachers. I've cotaught with a gym teacher, a science teacher, and a school nurse, because in rural schools there was no fulltime English teacher. And, there is a need to hire more teachers for these after-hours classes---especially if public school programs are being developed to replace hagwon. It's interesting to note these teachers are getting resistance as well from the union for being, wait for it, "unqualified." Well, I hate to be such a jerk to K-English teachers, but come on, if you suck at English you shouldn't be teaching it. Hell, that goes for NSETs, too. But quit throwing around "unqualified" when your own teachers have proven time and time and time again that they're not only unwilling but also unable to do the job. I touched on that in the Herald a couple months ago. |
That's pretty much bang on the mark. First the testing system will have to change. Then, over the course of several decades, Korea will have to produce teachers who can teach to a communicative test. Only after that will be there be no need for us here. Since there are so many cards stacked against that happening, all of these deadlines are pretty meaningless. |
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Xuanzang
Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Location: Sadang
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| Posted: Mon May 25, 2009 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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| The teachers that could do what they want make more money at the hagwons or dont have any interest in slaving away to pass a rigorous teacher's exam. They could probably gather 1/5 of the total if they relaxed all restrictions and poached from the hagwons. We're here to stay. |
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The Gipkik
Joined: 30 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 2:48 am Post subject: |
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| Aelric wrote: |
| If that is what they really want, they should round up the best among us (I would not be included), hike up the pay about 300% and have us teach English as part of the teaching certificate training program with a strict pass/fail policy for those who will teach the subject of English. |
I would love to see how they rounded up the "best" teachers. What would the criteria be, that they are all qualified to teach in their home country? Exactly how many qualified teachers from back home have any experience teaching EFL? Coming here with a qualified teacher's status isn't the answer by a long shot, although it does indicate that these teacher's will take their jobs seriously. It takes years to be a competent EFL teacher. Don't denigrate your own job and think a history teacher or even a primary school teacher is going to be any better at it, although I will grant that primary school teachers should have a shorter learning curve. There are real skills to teaching this stuff--even if we can't use them half the time because of outdated curricula and other boner regulations... |
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