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DWAEJIMORIGUKBAP
Joined: 28 May 2009 Location: Electron cloud
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Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:20 pm Post subject: Some observations on my students learning 'behaviour' |
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I work at an after-school programme at an elementary school.
I've noticed something very frustrating and mind boggling about my elementary students from grades 1 - 3 at both this school and my previous school.
For a whole 4 months now EVERY CLASS I have to remind the kids that they actually have to LOOK at the book when we are studying.
For example - We're doing a listen and repeat exercise. Exercise A. Pictures of various characters pointing to themselves.
"Number 1." - "I'm Annie, I'm a girl. Number 2. 'I'm Digger, I'm a dog."
etc.
Well common sense tells you that you listen, whilst looking at the picture and that helps you understand what you're talking about.
But around 90% of the kids will just stare off into space or at the wall, poster, out the window and move their mouths up and down and make 'some sort of sounds' that don't respond to what they're hearing.
Likewise when we sing a song - the words are in the book and they CAN READ (I've even ran it through with them 4 or 5 times even before we attempt to sing it) instead of looking at the page and singing the song whilst looking at the words on the page - they'll stare into space and just make sounds up as they go along / or look at my mouth and try to imitate the sounds I'm making but as they're not actually reading the words they're mearely immitating sounds NOT COMPREHENDING what those sounds actually mean....
Now I run a good, happy classroom, maximum ten to a class and have been teaching 5 years and am a pretty good and fair teacher imo.
I have even spent the last 3 months making sure they point to the corresponding pictures (even teaching them what 'point' means by drills such as 'point to the door, point to the window, point to __________ teacher etc.)
So I'll say ok exercise A (whilst holding up my book and showing them where it is. Point to number one. 'Cat, cat.'
And of course they'll look anywhere but the book and some will say 'cat' and some will say Lord Knows What.
Is this universal amongst elementary students the world over??? I seem to remember I had much better study skills at this age....
Unique to Korea? Is it because of how they're taught by TV in the classroom these days so they have no attention span to look at books as they're less stimulatiing...?
What is going on here??? I mean 4 bloody months of trying to train them how to study 5 days a week - AND THEY STILL DON'T GET IT!!!!!!!!!
Last edited by DWAEJIMORIGUKBAP on Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:47 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Rusty Shackleford
Joined: 08 May 2008
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Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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I've spent whole lessons just on "Turn to page.....".
One week later, "OK, everyone TURN.......TO.....PAGE.........FORT.....TY.......FOUR". Net result, stunned silence.  |
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crossmr

Joined: 22 Nov 2008 Location: Hwayangdong, Seoul
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Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:48 pm Post subject: |
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So apparently you've never interacted with a group of children age 6-9 prior to now? |
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Yu_Bum_suk

Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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I sometimes have to go down the row pointing to every other student 'fill in number one, fill in number one, number one, number one' pointing at the spot on the page ... in my third-year high school classes. So it never really ends. |
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DWAEJIMORIGUKBAP
Joined: 28 May 2009 Location: Electron cloud
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Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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crossmr wrote: |
So apparently you've never interacted with a group of children age 6-9 prior to now? |
So apparently you didn't read my whole post? Like the part where I mention I've been doing this for 5 years? |
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blackjack

Joined: 04 Jan 2006 Location: anyang
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Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 11:16 pm Post subject: |
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I find I have to write it on the board and point to the word on the board. If they can read it helps not to say the word first, just point at it |
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crossmr

Joined: 22 Nov 2008 Location: Hwayangdong, Seoul
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Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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DWAEJIMORIGUKBAP wrote: |
crossmr wrote: |
So apparently you've never interacted with a group of children age 6-9 prior to now? |
So apparently you didn't read my whole post? Like the part where I mention I've been doing this for 5 years? |
Not really since you couldn't be arsed to post this in the right forum, why should I go out of the way to pick the trivia out of your post?
how about instead of "prior to now" we go with "prior to teaching in Korea"
Your post reads like someone who has never done this before, and you ask questions like someone who has never done this before yet you claim 5 years of experience.
Quote: |
Is this universal amongst elementary students the world over |
So I'm going to assume you haven't taught anywhere else.
You have 5 years of experience apparently, that should be long enough with enough students to form some opinion. You only mention it happening the last 4 months. What happened the 4 years 8 months prior to that? If it happened then, why did it take you 5 years to complain about it? If it didn't happen, obviously this isn't a unique to Korea problem. Nor is there any indication this would be a problem the world over if it didn't happen for the 4 years and 8 months prior to now. |
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DWAEJIMORIGUKBAP
Joined: 28 May 2009 Location: Electron cloud
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Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 11:29 pm Post subject: |
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crossmr wrote: |
DWAEJIMORIGUKBAP wrote: |
crossmr wrote: |
So apparently you've never interacted with a group of children age 6-9 prior to now? |
So apparently you didn't read my whole post? Like the part where I mention I've been doing this for 5 years? |
Not really since you couldn't be arsed to post this in the right forum, why should I go out of the way to pick the trivia out of your post?
how about instead of "prior to now" we go with "prior to teaching in Korea"
Your post reads like someone who has never done this before, and you ask questions like someone who has never done this before yet you claim 5 years of experience.
Quote: |
Is this universal amongst elementary students the world over |
So I'm going to assume you haven't taught anywhere else.
You have 5 years of experience apparently, that should be long enough with enough students to form some opinion. You only mention it happening the last 4 months. What happened the 4 years 8 months prior to that? If it happened then, why did it take you 5 years to complain about it? If it didn't happen, obviously this isn't a unique to Korea problem. Nor is there any indication this would be a problem the world over if it didn't happen for the 4 years and 8 months prior to now. |
Whoa, someone has a lot of anger inside of them.
I have never taught outside of Korea (as is evident from reading my post and the fact that I enquire whether this is universal outside of Korea. It goes without saying - ie is self evident) so faced with a confusing and surprising situation / phenomena - it's only natural that I enquire whether anyone with experience has noticed this in any other country and also speculate on the possible causes.
Now calm down and try and be happy huh? |
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mayorgc
Joined: 19 Oct 2008
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Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 11:41 pm Post subject: |
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i think that guy is just angry cuz you are putting Koreans down.
anyways, yes, my Grade 3 and grade 4 kids are pretty much the same. Tell them to turn to a page and you get them staring into space. The only way to get them to do anything is to go to each of them one by one and instruct them.
But to be fair, I do have some really good kids in the class, mixed with the kids who really don't want to be there.
Is it the same in Canada? Probably not, because in Canada, the kids understand english. In korea, it just sounds like gibberish to them, so they don't turn to the page or pay attention.
But some understand english and still act half retarded, so who knows. |
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Zantetsuken
Joined: 21 Dec 2008
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Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 11:44 pm Post subject: |
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DWAEJIMORIGUKBAP wrote: |
crossmr wrote: |
DWAEJIMORIGUKBAP wrote: |
crossmr wrote: |
So apparently you've never interacted with a group of children age 6-9 prior to now? |
So apparently you didn't read my whole post? Like the part where I mention I've been doing this for 5 years? |
Not really since you couldn't be arsed to post this in the right forum, why should I go out of the way to pick the trivia out of your post?
how about instead of "prior to now" we go with "prior to teaching in Korea"
Your post reads like someone who has never done this before, and you ask questions like someone who has never done this before yet you claim 5 years of experience.
Quote: |
Is this universal amongst elementary students the world over |
So I'm going to assume you haven't taught anywhere else.
You have 5 years of experience apparently, that should be long enough with enough students to form some opinion. You only mention it happening the last 4 months. What happened the 4 years 8 months prior to that? If it happened then, why did it take you 5 years to complain about it? If it didn't happen, obviously this isn't a unique to Korea problem. Nor is there any indication this would be a problem the world over if it didn't happen for the 4 years and 8 months prior to now. |
Whoa, someone has a lot of anger inside of them.
I have never taught outside of Korea (as is evident from reading my post and the fact that I enquire whether this is universal outside of Korea. It goes without saying - ie is self evident) so faced with a confusing and surprising situation / phenomena - it's only natural that I enquire whether anyone with experience has noticed this in any other country and also speculate on the possible causes.
Now calm down and try and be happy huh? |
Crossmr has every right to be angry....You'd be angry too if you believed -18C wasn't cold...cut the guy some slack will ya.. |
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crossmr

Joined: 22 Nov 2008 Location: Hwayangdong, Seoul
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Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 11:58 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: |
Whoa, someone has a lot of anger inside of them.
I have never taught outside of Korea (as is evident from reading my post and the fact that I enquire whether this is universal outside of Korea. It goes without saying - ie is self evident) so faced with a confusing and surprising situation / phenomena - it's only natural that I enquire whether anyone with experience has noticed this in any other country and also speculate on the possible causes.
Now calm down and try and be happy huh? |
If you were a newbie, yes that would be perfectly natural. As you say, you've been doing this for 5 years, so which is it?
This behaviour is fairly typical of kids this age, hence what my original question was supposed to convey to you.
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i think that guy is just angry cuz you are putting Koreans down. |
Not really. His post makes no sense. He acts like a fresh off the boat newbie yet claims 5 years experience. If he has been teaching kids this age for 5 years he should have some sense as to whether or not their behaviour is normal by now. If there was no problem for 4 years and 8 months prior to this why is he asking if this is a world wide phenomenon or uniquely Korean problem? If there was a problem.. why does he describe it as only the last 4 months and how was he handling it before that?
Quote: |
Crossmr has every right to be angry....You'd be angry too if you believed -18C wasn't cold...cut the guy some slack will ya.. |
That's T-shirts and unzipped spring jacket weather bro. |
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DWAEJIMORIGUKBAP
Joined: 28 May 2009 Location: Electron cloud
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Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 12:08 am Post subject: |
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Zantetsuken wrote: |
DWAEJIMORIGUKBAP wrote: |
crossmr wrote: |
DWAEJIMORIGUKBAP wrote: |
crossmr wrote: |
So apparently you've never interacted with a group of children age 6-9 prior to now? |
So apparently you didn't read my whole post? Like the part where I mention I've been doing this for 5 years? |
Not really since you couldn't be arsed to post this in the right forum, why should I go out of the way to pick the trivia out of your post?
how about instead of "prior to now" we go with "prior to teaching in Korea"
Your post reads like someone who has never done this before, and you ask questions like someone who has never done this before yet you claim 5 years of experience.
Quote: |
Is this universal amongst elementary students the world over |
So I'm going to assume you haven't taught anywhere else.
You have 5 years of experience apparently, that should be long enough with enough students to form some opinion. You only mention it happening the last 4 months. What happened the 4 years 8 months prior to that? If it happened then, why did it take you 5 years to complain about it? If it didn't happen, obviously this isn't a unique to Korea problem. Nor is there any indication this would be a problem the world over if it didn't happen for the 4 years and 8 months prior to now. |
Whoa, someone has a lot of anger inside of them.
I have never taught outside of Korea (as is evident from reading my post and the fact that I enquire whether this is universal outside of Korea. It goes without saying - ie is self evident) so faced with a confusing and surprising situation / phenomena - it's only natural that I enquire whether anyone with experience has noticed this in any other country and also speculate on the possible causes.
Now calm down and try and be happy huh? |
Crossmr has every right to be angry....You'd be angry too if you believed -18C wasn't cold...cut the guy some slack will ya.. |
Ah, I see.
Yes, it makes sense that somebody whose id is an acronym of Mr Cross would be a very frustrated individual who would spend their time painstakingly picking apart innocent posts (written by laid back people who are working thus only have a few minutes to put them together) so that they could try and gain some kind of 'self esteem brownie points.'
Ah well, in 5 years here I'm used to meeting the angry / frustrated / etc...
But seriously - chill. |
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crossmr

Joined: 22 Nov 2008 Location: Hwayangdong, Seoul
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Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 12:22 am Post subject: |
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DWAEJIMORIGUKBAP wrote: |
Ah, I see.
Yes, it makes sense that somebody whose id is an acronym of Mr Cross would be a very frustrated individual who would spend their time painstakingly picking apart innocent posts (written by laid back people who are working thus only have a few minutes to put them together) so that they could try and gain some kind of 'self esteem brownie points.'
Ah well, in 5 years here I'm used to meeting the angry / frustrated / etc...
But seriously - chill. |
But seriously, answer the question. What happened in the 4 years and 8 months prior to that? There is nothing angry or frustrated about it. You wanted to get snippy and claim I didn't read all of your post, so I made sure to go back and read it twice and give you exactly what you wanted. What I found was a post that made no sense. Someone who apparently has been doing it for 5 years and yet also seems like he's never seen kids this age before in his life. |
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DWAEJIMORIGUKBAP
Joined: 28 May 2009 Location: Electron cloud
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Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 12:30 am Post subject: |
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crossmr wrote: |
DWAEJIMORIGUKBAP wrote: |
Ah, I see.
Yes, it makes sense that somebody whose id is an acronym of Mr Cross would be a very frustrated individual who would spend their time painstakingly picking apart innocent posts (written by laid back people who are working thus only have a few minutes to put them together) so that they could try and gain some kind of 'self esteem brownie points.'
Ah well, in 5 years here I'm used to meeting the angry / frustrated / etc...
But seriously - chill. |
But seriously, answer the question. What happened in the 4 years and 8 months prior to that? There is nothing angry or frustrated about it. You wanted to get snippy and claim I didn't read all of your post, so I made sure to go back and read it twice and give you exactly what you wanted. What I found was a post that made no sense. Someone who apparently has been doing it for 5 years and yet also seems like he's never seen kids this age before in his life. |
For F%%%s sake.
I've noticed this for the last 5 years of course.
I've only just joined (starting to regret it) this board.
For some reason or another I've never really brought this up in converstaion, or if I have I can't really remember. You know - life kind of happens around and outside of work and I have more important / distracting things on my mind.
Just trying to get a discussion going to see if others have the same problem / what could be the paedagogical / social / cultural reasons for it etc. |
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mld
Joined: 05 Jan 2009 Location: Seoul
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Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 5:39 am Post subject: Re: Some observations on my students learning 'behaviour' |
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DWAEJIMORIGUKBAP wrote: |
I work at an after-school programme at an elementary school.
I've noticed something very frustrating and mind boggling about my elementary students from grades 1 - 3 at both this school and my previous school.
For a whole 4 months now EVERY CLASS I have to remind the kids that they actually have to LOOK at the book when we are studying.
For example - We're doing a listen and repeat exercise. Exercise A. Pictures of various characters pointing to themselves.
"Number 1." - "I'm Annie, I'm a girl. Number 2. 'I'm Digger, I'm a dog."
etc.
Well common sense tells you that you listen, whilst looking at the picture and that helps you understand what you're talking about.
But around 90% of the kids will just stare off into space or at the wall, poster, out the window and move their mouths up and down and make 'some sort of sounds' that don't respond to what they're hearing.
Likewise when we sing a song - the words are in the book and they CAN READ (I've even ran it through with them 4 or 5 times even before we attempt to sing it) instead of looking at the page and singing the song whilst looking at the words on the page - they'll stare into space and just make sounds up as they go along / or look at my mouth and try to imitate the sounds I'm making but as they're not actually reading the words they're mearely immitating sounds NOT COMPREHENDING what those sounds actually mean....
Now I run a good, happy classroom, maximum ten to a class and have been teaching 5 years and am a pretty good and fair teacher imo.
I have even spent the last 3 months making sure they point to the corresponding pictures (even teaching them what 'point' means by drills such as 'point to the door, point to the window, point to __________ teacher etc.)
So I'll say ok exercise A (whilst holding up my book and showing them where it is. Point to number one. 'Cat, cat.'
And of course they'll look anywhere but the book and some will say 'cat' and some will say Lord Knows What.
Is this universal amongst elementary students the world over??? I seem to remember I had much better study skills at this age....
Unique to Korea? Is it because of how they're taught by TV in the classroom these days so they have no attention span to look at books as they're less stimulatiing...?
What is going on here??? I mean 4 bloody months of trying to train them how to study 5 days a week - AND THEY STILL DON'T GET IT!!!!!!!!! |
With regards to not paying attention. I'm no expert, but the best way is to think about what incentives the students have for paying attention and what incentives they have for not paying attention.
For starters, by the way you describe the book, it doesn't sound like the work you're doing with them is interesting or engaging. Listen and repeat is very boring. Even if the kids were doing it, I'd bet a good chunk are on auto-pilot and won't remember what they said (though, you're probably helping by making them point because they have to be active). Think about it this way: if you had to listen and repeat to a bunch of words in a language you didn't understand all that well would you find it easy to pay attention all the time?
I also think that since we're older we can see the value in pointing and looking while we repeat. However, the kids don't necessarily see the point in learning English at all, and it's not interesting/engaging (doesn't need to be fun, but intellectually stimulating).
Another possibility: you could just be stuck with some lower level kids. They may have a hard time understanding what you say. Often I've seen kids who can repeat things perfectly if I ask a question one way, but if I change something small they have no clue. Some students are very good at mimicking understanding. Try memorizing some random Korean phrase that you don't understand.... it's not that hard to do.
From my experiences with students back home (Canada), I do not find things to be the same, but you can't really compare. In Canada, you rarely see children learning a foreign language with this intensity at that young an age. The language barrier really causes more problems than you can believe (I cannot have the heart to heart talk with my 6-year olds because they don't understand enough English and I don't understand enough Korean to talk to them how I would an English speaking student - thus classroom management is much more difficult, though not as impossible as some make it out to be).
How tied are you to the book? I know in many of my classes I don't have much leeway (and often I'm given books way beyond the level of my students), but in others I do and making something more interactive (other than repeating) where students actually get to work with the language could be helpful (how about having them make flash cards with sentences or just vocab words that they can use at home to practise).
Sorry, it seems like I just wrote a long rambling string of incoherent thoughts. I hope that you can find something in there that is of use to you. If I had to give a one sentence answer to your post it would be this: I personally find that Korean students are tougher to deal with - mostly because of language difficulties and work that is not at an appropriate level - but a teacher's job is to do what they can with what they have.
Like I said above, a lot of the books kids are given to study English with are boring (and the things we end up doing with them are boring as well), so why listen? Just make sure you don't get mad at the kids for not being interested... that just makes them less willing to learn and try their best for you.
Good luck! |
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