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dmbfan
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
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 Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 6:13 pm Post subject: Obama's Agenda |
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FOX News Blogs � FOX Forum � Tommy De Seno
June 5th, 2009 8:13 AM Eastern
DE SENO: Obama�s Christian-Muslim Double Standard: Our First Dhimmi President
By Tommy DeSeno
With every speech he gives, President Obama goes further and further in diminishing Christianity in America while inflating Muslims here and around the world.
For Americans this appears to be at best an incredibly bad choice of rhetoric or at worst the manifestation of a prejudice hidden in Obama, finally making its way out.
To Muslims though, it has a much deeper meaning tied to the concept of �Dhimmi,� the subjugation of other religions to Islam. I�ll define that in more detail at the end of this column, but first let�s examine the proof that Obama is diminishing Christians while inflating Muslims.
It started in a speech he gave in 2007 when he stated, �Whatever we once were, we�re no longer a Christian nation.� At that same speech he criticized Christian leaders, claiming they have used their religion for political purposes.
I guess he thinks �Jihad� is a Christian word.
He repeated again that �America is not a Christian nation� a few weeks later. Little was made of it during the Presidential campaign because the media protected Obama from controversy at all costs. Either that or they just didn�t grasp for themselves the �Dhimmi� implications Obama�s words had for Muslims around the world.
One of his campaign promises was to give a speech �in a major Muslim capital� in his first 100 days in office.
The only such speech he made was in Turkey. At a press conference before his speech, Obama said, �[O]ne of the great strengths of the United States is � although as I mentioned, we have a very large Christian population, we do not consider ourselves a Christian nation��
He went on to say that America is also not a Muslim or Jewish nation, but no one has ever assumed that. His point therefore was to once again make sure the world knew he doesn�t consider America, comprised of 78.5% Christians, a �Christian nation.�
Three times in two years is enough, Mr. President. I fully understand you don�t consider America a �Christian nation.�
Perhaps what the President is referring to is that America has a secular government. We do, after all, have a secular Constitutional Republic that explicitly allows no state religion while allowing the practice of any religion.
The question then becomes does he see nations that are majority Muslim the same way? Has he made it a point to tell them three times they are not �Muslim nations?� In hypocritical fashion, no he hasn�t.
If Turkey was his first speech in a �Muslim capital,� why does he call it that? Like America, Turkey is a secular Constitutional Republic that explicitly allows no state religion while allowing the practice of any religion. See the double standard? According to Obama, Turkey is Muslim but America is not Christian.
In his speech in Turkey, as with his speech today in Egypt, President Obama told of his being from a �Majority-Muslim� nation � Indonesia. �Majority-Muslim� is Obama double speak that allows him to point out the Muslim aesthetic of a country without saying �Muslim Nation.� Again, note the double standard. Like America and Turkey, Indonesia is a secular Constitutional Republic with no state religion while allowing religious freedom.
To further diminish American Christianity and inflate Muslim presence here, on June 1st President Obama told French television, �If you actually took the number of Muslim Americans, we�d be one of the largest Muslim countries in the world.� In his speech in Cairo today, he put the number of Muslims in America at 7 million.
According to the CIA World Factbook, there are only 1.8 million Muslims here. President Einstein miscalculated by almost 400%.
He isn�t even right about the USA Muslim population being �one of the largest Muslim countries in the world.� Assuming his overinflated number, there are between 30 and 35 countries with more Muslims than we have, and if we stop him from lying and use the real number, the American Muslim community ranks about 50th in size. Certainly not one of the largest.
Once again we see an attempt by Obama to inflate Muslims by overstating their size and saying America would be �one of the largest Muslim countries,� but three times he has insisted America is �not a Christian country,� despite that we are ranked #1 in the world in Christian population and the birthday of Christ is an American national holiday.
The significance of Obama�s attempts to raise the Muslim status into something bigger than it is, while diminishing Christianity, is tied to the concept of what in the Muslim world is termed �Dhimmi.�
�Dhimmi� is a status historically given to Christians and Jews in Muslim countries. It is a lesser legal status with lesser rights. Political rights are curtailed. The practice of Christianity and Judaism is allowed only by accepting the subjugation of those religions to Islam, and Christians and Jews pay a tax to the Muslims. The entire concept revolves around the idea of accepting that Christians and Jews are lesser people, while Muslims are greater people.
Obama has made no bones about his wanting to get on the good side of Muslim nations. He clearly has no reservations about diminishing Christians, consistent with Muslim �Dhimmi� tradition, to do so. Sadly, it�s a racist gesture. |
Alright then........let the rationalization spill over and the excuses fly.
dmbfan |
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Sergio Stefanuto
Joined: 14 May 2009
Location: UK
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| Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Good points, it would appear. No excuses here, even as a devout religiophobe. It's good that Christians and atheists can come together in the fight against a far more urgent menace - Islamic theocracy and cultural/moral relativism whom, if they don't want to overthrow the system at gunpoint, certainly want to help those that do go about it. And I don't see why we shouldn't scrutinize Obama any less strictly than we did Mr Bush. |
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dmbfan
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Good points, it would appear. No excuses here, even as a devout religiophobe. It's good that Christians and atheists can come together in the fight against a far more urgent menace - Islamic theocracy and cultural/moral relativism whom, if they don't want to overthrow the system at gunpoint, certainly want to help those that do go about it. And I don't see why we shouldn't scrutinize Obama any less strictly than we did Mr Bush |
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I agree. I just wish that Americans would realize that this guy is up to no good and flattering the Muslim world is not going to make them like us any better. That theory was proved when Obama went to Europe, stroked their ego and stilll......STILL they are jerks.
People have to realize that there is no middle when it comes to Islam. To them, we are considered infedels and it is OK to kill those who do not accept Alah. So, why do we want to appease them? Obviously, it will never work.
Ya know....one of the main reasons Islamists hate the West so much is that we consider women equal human beings.....which kind of goes against their little dick, insecure ideology.
dmbfan |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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| dmbfan wrote: |
| People have to realize that there is no middle when it comes to Islam. To them, we are considered infedels and it is OK to kill those who do not accept Alah. |
This is silly, most Muslims are moderates who just want to get on with their lives. There is also plenty of middle ground when it comes to Islam co-existing with other religions. There's evidence, for example, that the Ottoman Empire -- a decidedly Islamic Nation -- not only tolerated non-Muslims but actually discouraged conversion of it's non-Muslim citizens to Islam. That doesn't sound fanatical and lacking in middle ground to me.
Sometimes I feel like some parties in the West are actually more fanatical in their opposition to Muslims than most Muslims are in their opposition to the West.
| dmbfan wrote: |
| Ya know....one of the main reasons Islamists hate the West so much is that we consider women equal human beings.....which kind of goes against their little dick, insecure ideology. |
Islamists (i.e. people who support the political movement of Islamism) aren't necessarily representative of Muslims in general, nor are they necessarily the group the President wants to reach out to. I suspect he's much more interested in the average, normal, non-fanatical Muslim population. |
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dmbfan
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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This is silly, most Muslims are moderates who just want to get on with their lives. There is also plenty of middle ground when it comes to Islam co-existing with other religions. There's evidence, for example, that the Ottoman Empire -- a decidedly Islamic Nation -- not only tolerated non-Muslims but actually discouraged conversion of it's non-Muslim citizens to Islam. That doesn't sound fanatical and lacking in middle ground to me.
Sometimes I feel like some parties in the West are actually more fanatical in their opposition to Muslims than most Muslims are in their opposition to the West.
dmbfan wrote:
Ya know....one of the main reasons Islamists hate the West so much is that we consider women equal human beings.....which kind of goes against their little dick, insecure ideology.
Islamists (i.e. people who support the political movement of Islamism) aren't necessarily representative of Muslims in general, nor are they necessarily the group the President wants to reach out to. I suspect he's much more interested in the average, normal, non-fanatical Muslim population. |
Good points....but...
1. Were are living in times of the Ottaman Empire...get in the now.
2. When planes are bombed and hijacked...who are responsible 90% of the time?
3. Do muslim countries, such as......oh, lets say....Iran or Saudi Arabi, conceed to the DEMDANDS of Christian minorities?
4. Perhaps most muslims ARE moderates...but, I see VERY little press
or open demands for the extreme side to stop what they are doing.
dmbfan |
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Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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Mubarak is a dictator with a long list of human rights abuses.
Yet for the sake of befriending the muslim world, Obama is prepared to suck up to this man? |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| dmbfan wrote: |
| People have to realize that there is no middle when it comes to Islam. To them, we are considered infedels and it is OK to kill those who do not accept Alah. |
This is silly, most Muslims are moderates who just want to get on with their lives. There is also plenty of middle ground when it comes to Islam co-existing with other religions. There's evidence, for example, that the Ottoman Empire -- a decidedly Islamic Nation -- not only tolerated non-Muslims but actually discouraged conversion of it's non-Muslim citizens to Islam. That doesn't sound fanatical and lacking in middle ground to me.
Sometimes I feel like some parties in the West are actually more fanatical in their opposition to Muslims than most Muslims are in their opposition to the West.
| dmbfan wrote: |
| Ya know....one of the main reasons Islamists hate the West so much is that we consider women equal human beings.....which kind of goes against their little dick, insecure ideology. |
Islamists (i.e. people who support the political movement of Islamism) aren't necessarily representative of Muslims in general, nor are they necessarily the group the President wants to reach out to. I suspect he's much more interested in the average, normal, non-fanatical Muslim population. |
You do understand that talking rationally about Muslims makes you a desperate apologist for the worst excesses of Al Quaeda and the Taleban, don't you. You have just condoned countless incidents of female genital mutilation plus the executions of homosexuals and adulterers in Iran, no less. This is Dave's after all. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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| dmbfan wrote: |
| 1. Were are living in times of the Ottaman Empire...get in the now. |
My point was more that it's clearly not Islam in and of itself that is intolerant, as there have been Islamic Nations that have been tolerant.
| dmbfan wrote: |
| 2. When planes are bombed and hijacked...who are responsible 90% of the time? |
I don't think planes get bombed and hijacked with enough frequency to draw any statistical conclusions.
| dmbfan wrote: |
| 3. Do muslim countries, such as......oh, lets say....Iran or Saudi Arabi, conceed to the DEMDANDS of Christian minorities? |
Saudi Arabia does not, but Iran actually does make certain concessions to Christians. Christians are allowed to sell food generally prohibited to Muslims, and are allowed to follow their own religion's laws regarding marriage and inheritance. According to wikipedia, they also have a certain guaranteed level of representation in the Iranian Parliament, but there's no citation for this, and I'm having a hard time finding any confirmation of this elsewhere beyond the fact that there are evidently 2 Christian Armenians in membership (which may constitute the guaranteed representation).
Is this a vast amount of concession? Is it enough concession? Perhaps not, but it's certainly something, and it's more than Iran had to do. Honestly I was a bit surprised by it.
| dmbfan wrote: |
4. Perhaps most muslims ARE moderates...but, I see VERY little press
or open demands for the extreme side to stop what they are doing.
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There was just a post about such press here on the Current Events Forums, so some occurs. I agree they could and perhaps should do more, but people the world over could and perhaps should do more in terms of political activism. Given how apathetic many Westerns are regarding world events, it's hardly surprising similar situations exist elsewhere. Most people just want to live their lives happily. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
| dmbfan wrote: |
| People have to realize that there is no middle when it comes to Islam. To them, we are considered infedels and it is OK to kill those who do not accept Alah. |
This is silly, most Muslims are moderates who just want to get on with their lives. There is also plenty of middle ground when it comes to Islam co-existing with other religions. There's evidence, for example, that the Ottoman Empire -- a decidedly Islamic Nation -- not only tolerated non-Muslims but actually discouraged conversion of it's non-Muslim citizens to Islam. That doesn't sound fanatical and lacking in middle ground to me.
Sometimes I feel like some parties in the West are actually more fanatical in their opposition to Muslims than most Muslims are in their opposition to the West.
| dmbfan wrote: |
| Ya know....one of the main reasons Islamists hate the West so much is that we consider women equal human beings.....which kind of goes against their little dick, insecure ideology. |
Islamists (i.e. people who support the political movement of Islamism) aren't necessarily representative of Muslims in general, nor are they necessarily the group the President wants to reach out to. I suspect he's much more interested in the average, normal, non-fanatical Muslim population. |
You do understand that talking rationally about Muslims makes you a desperate apologist for the worst excesses of Al Quaeda and the Taleban, don't you. You have just condoned countless incidents of female genital mutilation plus the executions of homosexuals and adulterers in Iran, no less. This is Dave's after all. |
I don't think anyone thinks that about me. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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| dmbfan wrote: |
4. Perhaps most muslims ARE moderates...but, I see VERY little press
or open demands for the extreme side to stop what they are doing. |
Presumably, dumbfan, you are a man. And presumably, you consider yourself a moderate man.
Yet innocent people are killed by extremist men every day. Some of these men even rape and kill children. And while other extremist men don't necessarlly kill, they are beating their wives, or committing other such violence.
How is it I don't see the moderate men protesting about this stuff every day. Why don't I see moderate men marching against rape? Why don't I see moderate men regularly protesting against domestic violence? Where are the moderate men? Do they exist? |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| Big_Bird wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
| dmbfan wrote: |
| People have to realize that there is no middle when it comes to Islam. To them, we are considered infedels and it is OK to kill those who do not accept Alah. |
This is silly, most Muslims are moderates who just want to get on with their lives. There is also plenty of middle ground when it comes to Islam co-existing with other religions. There's evidence, for example, that the Ottoman Empire -- a decidedly Islamic Nation -- not only tolerated non-Muslims but actually discouraged conversion of it's non-Muslim citizens to Islam. That doesn't sound fanatical and lacking in middle ground to me.
Sometimes I feel like some parties in the West are actually more fanatical in their opposition to Muslims than most Muslims are in their opposition to the West.
| dmbfan wrote: |
| Ya know....one of the main reasons Islamists hate the West so much is that we consider women equal human beings.....which kind of goes against their little dick, insecure ideology. |
Islamists (i.e. people who support the political movement of Islamism) aren't necessarily representative of Muslims in general, nor are they necessarily the group the President wants to reach out to. I suspect he's much more interested in the average, normal, non-fanatical Muslim population. |
You do understand that talking rationally about Muslims makes you a desperate apologist for the worst excesses of Al Quaeda and the Taleban, don't you. You have just condoned countless incidents of female genital mutilation plus the executions of homosexuals and adulterers in Iran, no less. This is Dave's after all. |
I don't think anyone thinks that about me. |
You just haven't been here long enough. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 11:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| Big_Bird wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
| dmbfan wrote: |
| People have to realize that there is no middle when it comes to Islam. To them, we are considered infedels and it is OK to kill those who do not accept Alah. |
This is silly, most Muslims are moderates who just want to get on with their lives. There is also plenty of middle ground when it comes to Islam co-existing with other religions. There's evidence, for example, that the Ottoman Empire -- a decidedly Islamic Nation -- not only tolerated non-Muslims but actually discouraged conversion of it's non-Muslim citizens to Islam. That doesn't sound fanatical and lacking in middle ground to me.
Sometimes I feel like some parties in the West are actually more fanatical in their opposition to Muslims than most Muslims are in their opposition to the West.
| dmbfan wrote: |
| Ya know....one of the main reasons Islamists hate the West so much is that we consider women equal human beings.....which kind of goes against their little dick, insecure ideology. |
Islamists (i.e. people who support the political movement of Islamism) aren't necessarily representative of Muslims in general, nor are they necessarily the group the President wants to reach out to. I suspect he's much more interested in the average, normal, non-fanatical Muslim population. |
You do understand that talking rationally about Muslims makes you a desperate apologist for the worst excesses of Al Quaeda and the Taleban, don't you. You have just condoned countless incidents of female genital mutilation plus the executions of homosexuals and adulterers in Iran, no less. This is Dave's after all. |
I don't think anyone thinks that about me. |
She was being sarcastic to those who think that way and forgot the  . |
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djsmnc
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Location: Dave's ESL Cafe
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| Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 10:20 am Post subject: |
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| Muslim tolerance is an oxymoron |
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Hyeon Een
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 10:42 am Post subject: |
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Wow.
If DMBFan and so on either believe that the President of the USA is a Muslim, or that he is MORE of a Muslim than Christian then.. wow. He couldn't tick many more "Christian" boxes than he already did as a black man.
I personally believe though that the chap pretended to be a Christian in order to get elected in a fervently religious nation which would not accept anyone but one; he's a bright, well-educated chap. I don't believe that he thinks that a magician was resurrected after a naily death and I certainly don't believe that he thinks some Muhammed who married 9 year old girls was a prophet.
I think he's an intelligent guy who pretended to be a Christian in order to get elected. I think lying is bad; but if it's for the greater good it's OK. I don't think he pretends to be a christian for nefarious purposes, and I don't think he put his life on the line and ruined a normal life for his children for some silly sky god; I think he did it because he honestly believes that he will help the US, and as a consequence the world, by bringing his knowledge, experience and most importantly wisdom to the position of President.
And, like it or not, I think he'll be remembered as the greatest president in the last 40 years or so, no matter what he does.
He may only be a coupla hundred days in, but I think he is a great, great guy, and hopefully he will become a great, great president. His early days are being dominated by an economic Katrina which kind of slows things down, but things will get back on track. He's arrived in an economic storm and sorting out the mess is taking the wind out of his recently-elected-sails but I hope he can overcome it and use his legitimacy to do great things. He will be remembered as a JFK.
Anyone who believes this guy is a MUSLIM of all things is an idiot of the highest order. He's too clever for that nonsense. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 11:43 am Post subject: |
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| Hyeon Een wrote: |
I personally believe though that the chap pretended to be a Christian in order to get elected in a fervently religious nation which would not accept anyone but one; he's a bright, well-educated chap. I don't believe that he thinks that a magician was resurrected after a naily death and I certainly don't believe that he thinks some Muhammed who married 9 year old girls was a prophet. |
I agree. In Dreams, his first book, it becomes more clear. He father was an atheist, and his mother likely too. I think his grandparents were nominally Christian, but not at all culturally. His mother was a flake, and all over the map, but not religious.
There was no evidence of him being religious (as an adult) while at Occidental or Columbia. He associated with marxists and post-colonial types, but not religious people (less roommates, who were often from Pakistan -or Pauckistan, as he calls it) It is only when he decided to enter politics via "community organizing" that he joined a church. I suppose he reasoned that it would be difficult for a black dude to gain political support as an agnostic in the black community.
He's a politician. He'll do what is necessary to get elected.
| Quote: |
| My point was more that it's clearly not Islam in and of itself that is intolerant, |
Have you read the koran? The koran (and hadiths) are islam. Are you familiar with the texts?
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| as there have been Islamic Nations that have been tolerant. |
Examples? Also, tolerant of what? |
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