Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Netz]

This a question for other vets here.

I don't post on this board too much anymore as it it seems to eventually leave a bad taste in my mouth, and it's not the taste of bad kimchi.

I've been living in Korea since 97', and in that time have met many people here. One type that I have continually run across is the "arrogant noob". These are generally people that are new here, or at least new to teaching English (they may have been employed by the US/DOD previously or retired military, or even tourists), and are interested in staying in Korea. This also included new teachers on E2's or or others who have gotten married to a Korean and were unsure of how to use their F visa status to it's full potential.

In other words, all types of foreigners.

Being the nice person I am, I have tried to help them get their foot in the door, and show them the ropes. Most people are eager to learn, and want to find out how they can make decent living here, doing something they never had to study for (including people who for all I know never spent a day in a college classroom, let alone have any experience teaching).

There's even people who've posted on this forum, and knowing that I've been here a while have PM'd me, asking for information (contracts, proposals, visa info, etc.)

Again, I've tried to help them all, and never thought the worse of it until recently.

What I have found, over the last decade of being selfless in my sharing of knowledge, is that 9 out of 10 people who I've shared with, are simply using me as resource.

Once they get their feet wet, and have whatever info they've been able to glean from me (along with a stable income and permanent job), they become arrogant "know it alls", who don't seem to remember the days of ignorance from their past.

They act as if they knew everything all along, and rarely do I even get a "thank you" for whatever I may have done to aid them.

It's even come around to bite me in the ass recently, as some of the people I've helped, have outright deceived me in order to secure work for themselves, at my expense.

So, while this in not a whining post, because at this point I could care less, I will certainly not be so helpful in the future either. I've learned the hard way, that helping "new" people here, generally isn't a good idea, and that belief is based off a multitude of experiences over a long period of time.

I'm not saying that I won't continue to offer to help others, but I will definitely be much more selective about the people I choose to extend myself to, as it seems a prudent choice now.

That being said, I'm wondering how many other veterans have had this same experience, and also do you try to help "new people", or have you become wary of this practice as I myself have?

[Manner of Speaking]

Netz,

I've noticed that teachers who previously have worked as professional teachers in their home country, or who have worked in some kind of occupation where professionalism and courtesy are part of the corporate culture, seem to be most appreciative of help from an experienced person. They tend to think more long-term about the consequences of their actions, and about what they want to achieve personally and professionally while living in Korea.

I think part of the problem with "noobs" not appreciating help is that when you first arrive here, you're very dependent in many ways on more experienced teachers, and this can create a feeling of insecurity. The smart individuals recognize it and just live with it as they know it will pass with time; others react by being arrogant, or later distancing themselves from the people they felt dependent on and who helped them when they first arrived.

But you're right, as time goes by, you have to pick and choose who to help, partly because you don't have unlimited time and resources, but also because there are some individuals that it's just a waste of time to try to help them.

[dean_burrito]

OP, when is the last time you went on vacation? You might be due for one.

[cdninkorea]

I've been here almost 4 years; does that make me a vet? Anyway, I've helped plenty of people on this board, and only one didn't seem appreciative (no thank you or expression of gratitude), so I'm not bitter about it.

Actually, on a few occassions I've learned things from their area of expertise too- one example was a guy who had been teaching in Chengdu, China for a few years and wanted to come to Korea; I answered his questions about Korea, and he told me a lot of useful information about Chengdu.

[nate2008]

Sounds like someone's got a case of the Mondays.

[asmith]

[D.D.]

One of the painful lessons of helping people is that most people don't even return the love. It is not for us to worry about. You do your best to help and help comes to you from other avenues. Trying to keep score will drive you crazy. Just give your gifts and don't worry that the diamonds you are sharing are being treated like rocks. Most people just expect that it's your obligation to help them. Some people really are glad you helped them but they forget to say thanks. Problem lies in you wanting to be appreciated and looking externally for recognition.

[creeper1]

[tob55]

I have been in Korea for 5 years now, and I find that the people who have been most appreciative are those who take the advice I offer to them and do something with it rather than coming back and asking the same question or questions over and over and over again. I understand in a public forum, everyone has something to say, and that not everything said should be taken seriously. However, it does take time to think about what you are going to say that would help someone. I tend to respond only to the threads that I feel reasonably confident that I can answer either from personal experience, or from first hand knowledge through researching the information being requested by a poster. That is the reason I post less these days, and not because I feel people have taken advantage of me or tried to twist my words to mean something they were not.

I generally have found most of my experiences on Dave's and other forums to be enjoyable, and in those rare circumstances I stopped contributing to some forums when it became obvious that the posters were always looking for argument rather than discussion.

[Zulethe]

The wealth of information available, the modernization of Korea, the ease of which it is to live here compared to 1993, I don't offer to help anyone.

I finally see the next generation and like every new generation, I don't like what I see.

I'm 41 and my father's generation was better than mine. My grandfather's generation was better than my father's, and so on.

So would I offer help to these spoiled little bratts? You know the answer

[bluelake]

I've been here for over twenty years straight (first lived here twenty-five years ago). I've helped all kinds of people in those years and I'm still happy to do it. I've had newbies ask for advice, people writing books on Korea ask questions, people making documentaries, etc. I've had many people off of Dave's contact me for this or that, and I've become good friends with some of them. Most people said "thank you" and that was plenty. Even if I don't hear from them again, that's o.k. I'm just glad to be able to share what I know with others. I was a newbie once and I remember the feeling.

[Chambertin]

Have to admit, never good to hear experience leave the situation.

That being said I have really appreciated the responses I received about my questions. If not you, I hope someone keeps helping us Korea newbies, I know I have needed some, will need more, and many others need more than that.
I would need MUCH more if I had not been to other countries first.

Good luck out there.

[ekul]

[livinginkunsan]

Wow, the op looks like a whiny little brat. No one is thanking me.. boo who.

[Suwon4AGT]

Thanks to the OP for this thread. I'm sure a lot of vets get tired of being unappreciated for helping noobs. Of course, I would add that if you stay in any industry or at any one job long enough, you'll run into the same problem of unappreciative noobs sucking up for help. This problem you speak of is hardly unique to the ESL universe.