Korean Job Discussion Forums

[different]

When applying for teaching positions, I guess it looks better on one's resume to have taught credit classes at a university than to have taught language institute classes at a university. It shows that one has experience being responsible for students' grades. I guess it also looks more "prestigious," though I think a good institute class provides a better learning environment than a required class.

HOW MUCH difference do you think it makes on the resume?

[Corky]

It's two different jobs. Definitely there's a big difference, but not enough to disqualify you. An equal question to ask might be how much difference would there be between having taught university language classes and having taught hokwon classes, even if it were to adults? If you've got experience at a university, it's definitely valuable. But one is experience doing the same job while the other one is only in the same field. Equally, five years teaching the university level language classes would probably be more beneficial than having taught one year of university credit level classes.
Are you having a peeing contest with a co worker?

[different]

No, I'm not in a contest. I'm trying to choose a job. I have two offers; one is a job teaching a university credit course (at a highly-ranked university), and the other is a job at a university language institute (at a medium-ranked university). There are several factors I'm thinking about, and my resume is one of them. Due to a few factors, the credit course job seems more logical, but my heart is leaning towards the language institute job. I think I'll choose that. Does anyone think I'm making a mistake?

[Corky]

What's making you lean in that direction?

[J.B. Clamence]

[The Lemon]

There are also jobs like the one at my school where we do both institute classes and credit classes on roughly a 50/50 basis. All things being equal, I prefer the institute classes, but that's just me.

[different]

I think the biggest reason I'm attracted to the uni language institute is that it's in Seoul, and the other job is in another city that I've lived in before that seemed kind of lifeless and a little depressing. But maybe I'd feel better there with a new job and a new state of mind. Maybe my experience would be different this year. Unlike some people, I'm not somebody who needs all of the entertainment options that Seoul provides, but for some reason I just feel better when I'm in Seoul than I do/did in the other city. Of course, I've never lived in Seoul, I lived in Kyunggi-do the past year (and liked it). It might also be more of a life experience to live in Seoul for a year. I'm young and am unsure of my life's direction.

Another factor is that the students at a language institute would probably be more intrinsically motivated, wouldn't they? I wouldn't have the power of grades to control them, but the students would be choosing to go to (and pay) the institute. J.B. Clamence, I assume you have some experience at a children's hogwan, but do you have experience teaching at a uni institute? I think uni students are deciding for themselves to attend a language institute, whereas children go to a hogwan because their parents want them there. I'm not a strict person by nature, and I'd rather have motivated students than control my students with grades.

Other advantages of the language institute are that the class size would be a bit smaller, and I'd have more freedom to teach how I wanted. However, I'd have a few more classes per week and would probably have to spend more time preparing each week. Also, my apartment would be a 30 or 40-minute bus ride away from the university. At the other job, my apartment would be 5 minutes from campus by foot. Both jobs have roughly the same vacation time and pay, and both would be between 9 and 5.

Overall, the job teaching the credit course would probably be less work when I'm not on vacation yet would be more impressive on my resume. I'd probably have more free time, and would probably have more energy to study Korean, which is one of my biggest goals this year. The university offering the credit course job to me is a highly-ranked university in Korea, so the students might be fairly motivated anyway.

A Korean co-worker of mine suggested that I take the credit course job to build my resume and I can go to Seoul next year if I want. But how much of a difference do you think it would make on my resume? I'd probably think the same way as my co-worker if I were sure that my goal is to build my resume as an ESL teacher and set myself up to get cushier uni jobs in the future with more vacation time. But I'm not so sure about that, and a year of my life is nothing to scoff at.

Yesterday I was leaning towards the language institute, but now my mind is in the middle. Any advice?

[pocariboy73]

deleted

[matthews_world]

I'm stepping up to non-credit/institute college students next month, finishing up my year at the end of the college semester.

It's such a treat to get the change from the bratty little twerps to the older students, even tho some of them might act the same.

[J.B. Clamence]

[different]

All of the students would be students from the university.

I've worked at a children's hogwan before and at a high school, and I actually felt the hogwan students were much easier for me to teach. The classes were smaller, the students were divided by level, and they were more motivated. I enjoyed the flexibility I had to change gears in class if something wasn't working, and I enjoyed thinking of creative activities. Most students had consistently good attendance. At the high school, the classes were big, not divided by level, and the students were sometimes impossible to engage unless I held their grades over their heads. Controlling them with their grades worked somewhat, but it took a lot of the fun out of the job. I also found it harder to find activities that worked and that they enjoyed. I liked the working and living environment at the high school better (and the vacation time, of course), but the actual teaching was more enjoyable at the hogwan.

I feel the university language institute is somewhat like my old hogwan, but with older students and slightly larger classes. The students would be divided by level. If some students skipped a lot of classes, I wouldn't worry because it would be their choice to miss out. At the regular credit course position, I'd have to spend a lot of time following a book, keeping records, and making sure to prepare the students for the grammar-based final exam. The classes would also be 50% larger than at the institute (though still smaller than freshman classes at most universities, I think). They also would be divided by major, not by level.

I guess I prefer a more informal, flexible environment where I'm free to teach what I want and where I can get to know the students more. I think I would have chosen the institute job by now if it weren't for the resume thing. As I said, the vacation time and pay are similar at both places. The regular credit course job isn't one of those positions with five months of vacation. They both have two months. And of course, the institute position is in Seoul, which is where I'd prefer to be at this time.

I only have a BA, but got offered a credit course job at a good university. Would I be foolish to turn it down for a language institute that would probably be more work and would be a 30 or 40-minute commute from my apartment? I know there is a lot of competition for university jobs, and maybe I should take this nice chance to get my foot in the door. A couple of Korean friends have told me I should definitely take the credit course job. Maybe the other city would be more fun the second time around.

What do you think?

[J.B. Clamence]

[Corky]

If you want to make your resume look better, then teach the credit courses.

[different]

Whoa J.B. Clamence...

I don't think education in a formal setting necessarily is more effective. I know a lot of hogwans out there are poorly run and are only concerned about the bottom line, but I worked at a good hogwan, and the students there improved much more in the course of one year than the students at the high school did. Why do parents send their children to a hogwan? Because students can learn more at a hogwan than they can in a big, one-lesson-fits-all class at a public school. On average, the students at the high school, who had been studying formally at school for four years before I came there, had less English communication ability than elementary and middle school students who had been attending my previous hogwan for only one year.

I don't know how the university institute I'm considering would compare to my good hogwan, but for you to imply that I'm a less dedicated or serious teacher for preferring an informal environment is insulting. You assume formal=better. I don't.

I think it's quite possible I would have more of an impact at the institute because I could adjust my lessons to the students' needs more and the classes would be smaller. They'd probably also be more enjoyable to teach because they'd probably be more motivated. I'm sure some of the institute students would end up being unmotivated and would skip class a lot, but it's up to them if they choose to waste their money. I don't think I'd get much satisfaction forcing uniterested students in a credit course to learn stuff they don't want to learn (and therefore probably wouldn't retain much of anyway). It could be argued that it is important for all Koreans to learn English, whether they like it or not, but there are lots of people who would quickly take my credit course job offer if I turn it down. I'll benefit the English ability of Korean society either way. The institute job just might involve less dirty work, and might give me more of an outlet for my creativity.

Of course, I've been assuming the institute students would be more motivated. That assumption could be wrong, especially since the university offering the credit course is considered a better university. You say institute students aren't more motivated. In another thread, The Lemon says they are almost always more motivated. Maybe it comes down to how students respond to each teacher's personality in each situation.

[Corky]

Many Korean university students consider their instructors to be professors. Many of the Korean professors do the same, at least when addressing them. To be employed by the university as one of its faculty members is a more "serious" job than working in a language institute of any kind. While you may be very professional, the level of formality is not comparable. If you're working in a hakwon, no one will ever mistake you for a professor. It's not a comment on the students nor on your quality.