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Rusty Shackleford
Joined: 08 May 2008
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 Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 10:22 pm Post subject: Green Jobs |
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http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/06/25/tilting_at_green_windmills_97168.html
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| Calzada says Spain's torrential spending -- no other nation has so aggressively supported production of electricity from renewable sources -- on wind farms and other forms of alternative energy has indeed created jobs. But Calzada's report concludes that they often are temporary and have received $752,000 to $800,000 each in subsidies -- wind industry jobs cost even more, $1.4 million each. And each new job entails the loss of 2.2 other jobs that are either lost or not created in other industries because of the political allocation -- sub-optimum in terms of economic efficiency -- of capital. (European media regularly report "eco-corruption" leaving a "footprint of sleaze" -- gaming the subsidy systems, profiteering from land sales for wind farms, etc.) Calzada says the creation of jobs in alternative energy has subtracted about 110,000 jobs from elsewhere in Spain's economy. |
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Indeed, environmentalists with the courage of their convictions should argue that the point of such investments is to subordinate market rationality to the higher agenda of planetary salvation. |
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.....the frequency with which such findings are ignored simply because they question policies that are so invested with righteousness that methodical economic reasoning about their costs and benefits seems unimportant. When the president speaks of "new green energy economies" creating "countless well-paying jobs," perhaps they really are countless, meaning incapable of being counted.
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| For fervent believers in governments' abilities to control the climate and in the urgent need for them to do so, believing is seeing: They see, through their ideological lenses, governments' green spending as always paying for itself. This is a free-lunch faith comparable to that of those few conservatives who believe that tax cuts always completely pay for themselves by stimulating compensating revenues from economic growth. |
Probably one of the most fair and balanced articles on any topic, from and wing of the political spectrum I have read in some time.
George Will is the smartest man in America.
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Sergio Stefanuto
Joined: 14 May 2009
Location: UK
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| Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 10:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Renewable energy is an absolute joke. Carbon capture and storage makes coal energy more expensive to produce. Bring on the nuclear power, I say. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 5:53 am Post subject: |
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| Sergio Stefanuto wrote: |
| Renewable energy is an absolute joke. Carbon capture and storage makes coal energy more expensive to produce. Bring on the nuclear power, I say. |
Nuclear power is a pipe-dream right now.
It'll be 10-15 years before the talent and the infrastructure can be allocated to develop nuclear power.
Thanks, Jane Fonda. |
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RufusW
Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Location: Busan
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| Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:28 am Post subject: |
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| A little economic hurt now pushes us up the' development graph' - we'd have been even further up if we'd developed it a few decades ago. The rewards in the future are exponentially higher than it'd be without this manufactured demand. |
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Andrew8686
Joined: 29 Jun 2009
Location: Pohang
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| Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:44 am Post subject: |
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There is no "energy crisis" except what is fabricated through monopolization.
We're just returning to the Enron style scams that they ran in California. They'd take several power plants offline for "maintenance" to cause blackouts which created the illusion that power was scarce so people became willing to pay more for it. They took state legislators through rooms full of computers showing fake data and then set the price themselves every day and laughed about it.
One of the Enron crew worked with Al Gore and other to devise the carbon trading scam that's about to be foisted on us. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 10:02 am Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| Sergio Stefanuto wrote: |
| Renewable energy is an absolute joke. Carbon capture and storage makes coal energy more expensive to produce. Bring on the nuclear power, I say. |
Nuclear power is a pipe-dream right now.
It'll be 10-15 years before the talent and the infrastructure can be allocated to develop nuclear power.
Thanks, Jane Fonda. |
Better get started pronto. Unless you think Nancy Pelosi sufficiently understands labour markets, industry and technology (jobs jobs jobs, as she said). |
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lithium
Joined: 18 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
| Sergio Stefanuto wrote: |
| Renewable energy is an absolute joke. Carbon capture and storage makes coal energy more expensive to produce. Bring on the nuclear power, I say. |
Nuclear power is a pipe-dream right now.
It'll be 10-15 years before the talent and the infrastructure can be allocated to develop nuclear power.
Thanks, Jane Fonda. |
Better get started pronto. Unless you think Nancy Pelosi sufficiently understands labour markets, industry and technology (jobs jobs jobs, as she said). |
The jobs saved by this crap Bill will be trumped by the millions of jobs lost. It must be defeated in the Senate. |
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Tiger Beer
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Sergio Stefanuto wrote: |
| Renewable energy is an absolute joke. Carbon capture and storage makes coal energy more expensive to produce. Bring on the nuclear power, I say. |
Illinois is a leader in nuclear power, and Obama is from Illinois. Obama has never said that wasn't an option.
So, that could very well happen...my only concern with is that Obama DOES have a lot of nuclear connections, much like Bush had all the oil connections...so...you know.
Looks like his main goal at the moment is to inspire and encourage new technologies, companies, startups, and such into American business enterprise at the moment. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Tiger Beer wrote: |
Looks like his main goal at the moment is to inspire and encourage new technologies, companies, startups, and such into American business enterprise at the moment. |
For that, America needs investment. For investment, America needs a domestic capital stock (savings) or lots of access to credit. The Feds are absolutely going to crowd out debt markets (actually, this will be a global thing, not just on the USA) and they're hellbent on inflating away savings to save the banks. The corporate tax code needs work too. And those states who most need 'green jobs' are regulated so absurdly that businesses won't want to set up there. Green jobs are much like green shoots, I reckon. |
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Tiger Beer
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| Tiger Beer wrote: |
Looks like his main goal at the moment is to inspire and encourage new technologies, companies, startups, and such into American business enterprise at the moment. |
For that, America needs investment. For investment, America needs a domestic capital stock (savings) or lots of access to credit. The Feds are absolutely going to crowd out debt markets (actually, this will be a global thing, not just on the USA) and they're hellbent on inflating away savings to save the banks. The corporate tax code needs work too. And those states who most need 'green jobs' are regulated so absurdly that businesses won't want to set up there. Green jobs are much like green shoots, I reckon. |
I personally think healthcare being tied to employers, is also one of the biggest obstacles to employers doing business in the U.S.
It is also why, I believe it was, Manpower Temps, which is just one of many temp agency corporations, is flourishing as one of the largest employers in the U.S. these days. (Temp agencies aren't required to pay healthcare).
Employers simply can't afford to but immense amounts of 'benefits' under 'healthcare' that government has imposed on employers.
Last edited by Tiger Beer on Mon Jun 29, 2009 8:42 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Yeah, I agree. Absolutely. |
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