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monnymite
Joined: 10 May 2009
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 Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 5:19 am Post subject: some advice from fellow teachers, had an ultimatum |
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Hi,
Just want to get some opinion from fellow teachers, and more experienced than me. Basically we have been at a school (not public) for about 3 months, we have not had the best time contractually. We've been having little wrangles over overtime, we think the overtime rate is too low, they dont discuss it. They are coming up to a busy period in July, and need us to do overtime.
The director and the manager, have offered us to go to a different school, they have already spoken to a couple in England, (who incidentally emailed me asking what the school was like!) . They seemed surprised that I knew they have been looking for new teachers, I sort of second guessed it anyway.
Now we have a choice, bite the bullet and do the overtime,with them backing us into a corner. Or leave and go to another school, they could arrange for us. We know nothing about the schools they said, and would like a decision tomorrow.
The problem I think is, they have already made their minds up, and would like a new set of teachers in, so if we say we wanted to stay .. I'm not sure how that would make them feel.
We got told they have been telling the consultancy that we are unhappy there, we have not expressed this, or even said this to them, which is even more surprising!
Has anyone had experience, or have an opinion on a matter like this, would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you
Teacher in need! |
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Ruraljuror
Joined: 08 Dec 2007
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| Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 5:27 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| we have not had the best time contractually. We've been having little wrangles over overtime, we think the overtime rate is too low, they dont discuss it. |
The overtime rate is almost always stated in the contract. The contract that you agreed to and signed. Are they paying you less than what your contract stipulates? If so, why would you even want to stay there?
If not, why are you trying to re-write a contract that you already signed? Surely you would be unhappy if your boss tried to do the same thing to you?
More details are needed. |
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Straphanger
Joined: 09 Oct 2008
Location: Chilgok, Korea
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| Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 5:31 am Post subject: |
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| After I hit "reply" I saw RJ asked the same question I was going to. Is your OT rate in your contract? If it is, and they're looking for other teachers, then you know which way the wind is blowing already. |
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monnymite
Joined: 10 May 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 5:40 am Post subject: |
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| Ruraljuror wrote: |
| Quote: |
| we have not had the best time contractually. We've been having little wrangles over overtime, we think the overtime rate is too low, they dont discuss it. |
The overtime rate is almost always stated in the contract. The contract that you agreed to and signed. Are they paying you less than what your contract stipulates? If so, why would you even want to stay there?
If not, why are you trying to re-write a contract that you already signed? Surely you would be unhappy if your boss tried to do the same thing to you?
More details are needed. |
It's a little complicated, they bought us over on a contract that we signed angreed to. It said 9 til 6 weekdays, I enquired about OT and they said Overtime is at a low rate because there is no OT. I did not want to do overtime anyway, so gladly agreed.
So anyways we get over here, the first 2 weeks, they were saying about OT, I said that i'm not doing it because you said it wasnt an option. Our complete idiot of a manger came over with the contract saying we must do overtime, we had to explain it's optional.
We got our consultant to try and sort it out, we said we'll do it for more money, they didnt even reply to our consultant, when she was asking them about it.
So now its up to the busy time, and they got us in the office today.
The problem has been that since we got here, they changed the goalposts, we agreed to working weekends, we were quite aminable to that. What they dont understand is, a contract is an idea of what your going to be working. But they just started asking us to teach adults etc in our first few days, we just said we have no teaching experience and you want us to teach adults!?
When we flew over, they put us up in the dorms 1st night, then the next day. got us up at 9am, completely jet lagged. Put the days schedule in front of us, our names were put into teach! they didnt even tell us, day 1 problems, just been the same since. We have been very patient with them, and now this ultimatum from them, very tiring. |
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afsjesse
Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Location: Kickin' it in 'Kato town.
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| Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 5:53 am Post subject: |
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You're being toyed by a typical hagwon who wants to maximize your output for the lowest possible cost so he/she can benefit the most.
This low OT rate you talk about, is it in the contract? You didn't really answer the question clearly. But I"m assuming it's not as you said you weren't interested in it. However, my suspicion is that this was a ploy to get you to come here so you couldn't point to a specific number, let's say 20 to 30,000 won as is the norm for hagwons. If you're making less than 20 I pity you, however if you signed a contract with a number then you have no room to complain.
As for the other hagwon offering. I'd pass it up. If you're not happy with the work place now, then why would you accept an offer from the director who is squeezing you tight already?
Good Luck!
J. |
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Ruraljuror
Joined: 08 Dec 2007
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| Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 5:54 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the details. Working weekends + forced overtime means you don't have a job, you have an owner. The sooner you are rid of this job the better.
I highly recommend that you do accept your boss's suggestion to end your employment ASAP. I highly recommend that you do NOT accept his choice as to your new employment. Most likely that is a friend of his, and your boss is going to get several million won in compensation for providing him with 2 teachers who won't require a recruitment fee and plane tickets.
Tell your boss you would like a letter of release. With this letter, you will be free to go on interviews and find a much better job. If your boss refuses to provide a letter of release for you, to be perfectly honest I'm not sure what your options are as I am no expert in visa matters. I would recommend starting a new thread with this topic: "My Boss Won't Give Me a LOR" so that the visa experts on this site can help you. My prediction is your boss is NOT going to provide the LOR, cuz he doesn't really sound like a great guy.
Your choices are to continue working at your abusive hagwon, move to his buddy's (most likely) abusive hagwon, or due some work to get your LOR so you can break this cycle of abuse and find a job where you are fairly compensated for your work. |
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monnymite
Joined: 10 May 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:03 am Post subject: |
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| afsjesse wrote: |
You're being toyed by a typical hagwon who wants to maximize your output for the lowest possible cost so he/she can benefit the most.
This low OT rate you talk about, is it in the contract? You didn't really answer the question clearly. But I"m assuming it's not as you said you weren't interested in it. However, my suspicion is that this was a ploy to get you to come here so you couldn't point to a specific number, let's say 20 to 30,000 won as is the norm for hagwons. If you're making less than 20 I pity you, however if you signed a contract with a number then you have no room to complain.
As for the other hagwon offering. I'd pass it up. If you're not happy with the work place now, then why would you accept an offer from the director who is squeezing you tight already?
Good Luck!
J. |
We signed the contract with the said amount on, but and a big but is, they said it's so low there is no overtime. WHen we were here, we re did the contract, we have not signed the new one, our consultant said she tried to talk about the low overtime, but they were not answering her. We did not sign this new contract, as the OT rate was still the same... typical korean, ignored the matter. |
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monnymite
Joined: 10 May 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:07 am Post subject: |
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| Ruraljuror wrote: |
Thanks for the details. Working weekends + forced overtime means you don't have a job, you have an owner. The sooner you are rid of this job the better.
I highly recommend that you do accept your boss's suggestion to end your employment ASAP. I highly recommend that you do NOT accept his choice as to your new employment. Most likely that is a friend of his, and your boss is going to get several million won in compensation for providing him with 2 teachers who won't require a recruitment fee and plane tickets.
Tell your boss you would like a letter of release. With this letter, you will be free to go on interviews and find a much better job. If your boss refuses to provide a letter of release for you, to be perfectly honest I'm not sure what your options are as I am no expert in visa matters. I would recommend starting a new thread with this topic: "My Boss Won't Give Me a LOR" so that the visa experts on this site can help you. My prediction is your boss is NOT going to provide the LOR, cuz he doesn't really sound like a great guy.
Your choices are to continue working at your abusive hagwon, move to his buddy's (most likely) abusive hagwon, or due some work to get your LOR so you can break this cycle of abuse and find a job where you are fairly compensated for your work. |
the thing is the problem is the overtime, but they are saying to the consultants that we are unhappy! I appreciate your reply, very informative, and has given me food for thought this evening, im really quite mad at being forced out.... I will not play ball with them, a letter of release would be the best, and wash our hands of them start a fresh. What advice could you give for searching for a new school? and quickly too, I presume we will have a month notice .. well I hope |
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monnymite
Joined: 10 May 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:08 am Post subject: |
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| Ruraljuror wrote: |
Thanks for the details. Working weekends + forced overtime means you don't have a job, you have an owner. The sooner you are rid of this job the better.
I highly recommend that you do accept your boss's suggestion to end your employment ASAP. I highly recommend that you do NOT accept his choice as to your new employment. Most likely that is a friend of his, and your boss is going to get several million won in compensation for providing him with 2 teachers who won't require a recruitment fee and plane tickets.
Tell your boss you would like a letter of release. With this letter, you will be free to go on interviews and find a much better job. If your boss refuses to provide a letter of release for you, to be perfectly honest I'm not sure what your options are as I am no expert in visa matters. I would recommend starting a new thread with this topic: "My Boss Won't Give Me a LOR" so that the visa experts on this site can help you. My prediction is your boss is NOT going to provide the LOR, cuz he doesn't really sound like a great guy.
Your choices are to continue working at your abusive hagwon, move to his buddy's (most likely) abusive hagwon, or due some work to get your LOR so you can break this cycle of abuse and find a job where you are fairly compensated for your work. |
the thing is the problem is the overtime, but they are saying to the consultants that we are unhappy! I appreciate your reply, very informative, and has given me food for thought this evening, im really quite mad at being forced out.... I will not play ball with them, a letter of release would be the best, and wash our hands of them start a fresh. What advice could you give for searching for a new school? and quickly too, I presume we will have a month notice .. well I hope |
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Straphanger
Joined: 09 Oct 2008
Location: Chilgok, Korea
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| Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:08 am Post subject: |
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| monnymite wrote: |
| We signed the contract with the said amount on, but and a big but is, they said it's so low there is no overtime. |
No, no it don't mean nuthin, those words that they say...
No it don't mean nuthin, those games that people play, yeah yeah...
No it don't mean nuthin, no victim, no crime.
No it don't mean nuthin til you signed it on the dotted line. |
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monnymite
Joined: 10 May 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:11 am Post subject: |
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| Straphanger wrote: |
| monnymite wrote: |
| We signed the contract with the said amount on, but and a big but is, they said it's so low there is no overtime. |
No, no it don't mean nuthin, those words that they say...
No it don't mean nuthin, those games that people play, yeah yeah...
No it don't mean nuthin, no victim, no crime.
No it don't mean nuthin til you signed it on the dotted line. |
as i say, we renegotiated a new contract with them, but didnt sign we were not happy with the OT!!! |
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Straphanger
Joined: 09 Oct 2008
Location: Chilgok, Korea
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| Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:14 am Post subject: |
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| monnymite wrote: |
| as i say, we renegotiated a new contract with them, but didnt sign we were not happy with the OT!!! |
I was hoping I misunderstood that.
You're working without a contract? Is your visa expired? How did you get a visa without a signed contract? Did you accept the visa without signing a contract first? |
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Ruraljuror
Joined: 08 Dec 2007
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| Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:20 am Post subject: |
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| I will not play ball with them, a letter of release would be the best, and wash our hands of them start a fresh. What advice could you give for searching for a new school? and quickly too, I presume we will have a month notice .. well I hope |
Trust me, you will have no problems finding a new job. There are thousands of ESL job vacancies in this country, especially since you are a couple...a couple is a gold mine! It's 2 teachers for the hassle of one! I once knew a couple who walked into 2 university jobs, even though they both had only 4 year degrees and 1 year experience simply because they were looking for jobs at the exact same time that a university was looking to hire a couple. You are a valuable commodity, and deserve to be treated as such. I have no specific advice as to how to find a new job because I suspect it will be so easy it would be like giving you advice on how to breathe.
The one tip I will give you is that your boss is most likely going to demand re-imbursement for plane tickets and recruiting fees since you lasted less than 6 months. If this is what is required to obtain the LOR, then agree to do it, and then have your new job re-imburse your old boss for it. Most likely your new job will agree to do this, as they were going to have to pay for a recruiter and plane tickets anyway, but at least this way they are able to employ teachers already in Korea who they can meet with face-to-face before hiring. If you can get that LOR, you will be fine...if your boss demands that you repay him before it is granted, have him agree to it in writing, so that he can't change his mind when your new job pays him back. |
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afsjesse
Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Location: Kickin' it in 'Kato town.
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| Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:20 am Post subject: |
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So why are you renegotiating a new contract? Just because you don't like the overtime? Just curious.
It should be pointed out that it is illegal in Korea for an employer to force you to work overtime. This law can be found in the Labor Act which is a sticky on the forum.
If your boss doesn't give you a letter of release there is an alternative option, however unconvenient, available to you. You could go to immigration and demand an Exit Order, a piece of paper they put in you're passport giving you X number of days to leave the country. You show this to Immi on the way out, give them you're ARC card and you're visa is effectively cancelled thus allowing you to apply for a new visa from you're home country.
There was a thread a while back where an OP said they recieved a visa from a 3rd party country, so that may be optional. However they had to get their degree verified through some Korean council. Try doing a search.
Good Luck.
J. |
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monnymite
Joined: 10 May 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:20 am Post subject: |
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| Straphanger wrote: |
| monnymite wrote: |
| as i say, we renegotiated a new contract with them, but didnt sign we were not happy with the OT!!! |
I was hoping I misunderstood that.
You're working without a contract? Is your visa expired? How did you get a visa without a signed contract? Did you accept the visa without signing a contract first? |
The Visa we got is with the original contract, but we renegotiated the terms... what happened was that there was an owner change at the school, but the new onwer and director failed to notice what contract they brought us over on. COmpletely disregarded, so we comprimised on a new contract with them, negotiating ourselves! the OT rate was a problem and we didnt sign that new contract , our consultant enquired about the OT but they ignored her. We had so many problems that we just let it go, because we said to them, we will not do OT, just the normal contract of 5 days a week, 9 til 6.. they agreed. Now they are saying we are unhappy, (when we arent) they are using it as an excuse, because we will not do OT on there rate, cos we did not agree to that. |
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