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Summer Wine
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River
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 Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:56 am Post subject: Israel must look into Gilad Shalit's fate |
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When has an extremist ever given back a live jew?
Why must Israel give back live for dead? Big Bird, when do the muslims have to account for thier crimes? Is it on the same day the Jews have too?
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Trevor
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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Summer Wine
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River
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| Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:20 am Post subject: |
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Murder is premeditated.
Manslaughter is accidental.
You are assuming that the Bulldozer driver decided after waking up to kill an american that day.
Oh, by the way "Darwins rule exists and she was stupid". Therefore Darwins rule exists and she failed the test.
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:14 pm Post subject: Re: Israel must look into Gilad Shalit's fate |
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| Summer Wine wrote: |
When has an extremist ever given back a live jew?
Why must Israel give back live for dead? Big Bird, when do the muslims have to account for thier crimes? Is it on the same day the Jews have too?
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Summer Whine, speak to the whole forum and don't get personal in your OP. I am not the bloody spokesperson for 1.5 billion muslims.
Frankly, I think it a very stupid queston from a very stupid poster, and I'm not inclined to engage with a silly religious nut like yourself. I'm sure you haven't really got a clue about my opinions on this matter, and have pretty much invented my beliefs for me, as a few others here are inclined to do. Why don't you just invent my answer to your question on your too. Think of what Jesus would do. Frankly, I don't believe he would consider you a very good disciple.
What about the thousands of prisoners that Israel has kidnapped? Some of them are teenaged boys and even girls. I remember reading about one unfortunate 15 year old girl who was rounded up and handcuffed to a bed while she was in labour. Did your church group care about that? Often they have done nothing and are just unfortunate to be related to the wrong person. Have you no concern or compasson for them? Or do your religious teachers ask you only to feel compassion for non-muslims? Is one Israeli prisoner worth 5000 Palestinian prisoners in your mind? I feel sorry for all of them, despite their ethnicity, don't you?
Disclaimer: I have a lot of respect for true Christians that really follow the spirit of Christ's teachigs. I have no respect for silly ones like the OP.
Last edited by Big_Bird on Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:41 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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Here are some more prisoners for the fake Christian to yell about:
Stolen Youth: Palestinian child prisoners
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| "Three more people in masks came into the room. They blindfolded me, put a hood over my head... they kicked and slapped me. They beat me with a plastic pipe and whatever they could get their hands on. I couldn't see anything because I was blindfolded. I just felt the blows. That lasted ten to fifteen minutes... Later they stood me on a chair and told me to grab a pipe that was fixed to the wall. They removed the chair from under me and left me hanging in the air, with my handcuffed hands holding onto the pipe and the weight of my body, hanging in the air, drawing my hands downwards. They left the room." - Ismail Sabatin, 17 years old. |
PALESTINIAN CHILD PRISONERS - Jews for Justice for Palestinians
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Prison also plays a central role within the Israeli occupation, a system of control that permeates every aspect of Palestinian life. Although the Israeli army is critical to enforcement, a range of legal, political and economic structures support this system of control. Literally thousands of Israeli military orders issued since 1967 provide the legal framework for the occupation; a number allow for the arrest and detention of Palestinian children, many without out charge or trial.
Although the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child as well as Israeli law defines 'a child' as someone under 18, the military order system treats children of 16 and over as adults. The lack of protections afforded to Palestinian child prisoners contrasts sharply with the generous rights and treatment available to arrested Israeli children. |
Do you know anything about the Muamar brothers? The two brothers who were abducted from their homes in Rafah on June 24 2006, the day before Gilad Shalit was captured? At least Shalit is a soldier and could be considered a POW. There are about ten thousand Palestinian prisoners, of whom several hundred are women and children. Roughly a thousand are what are known as 'administrative detainees,' charged with no crimes and held indefinitely. Some Arab children are born in Israeli prisons and see nothing but prison walls for the first years of their lives. Do you cry for them?
These Palestinians are often kidnapped without warning. You know Shalit's name, but you've never bothered to learn the name of even just one of the thousands of Palestinians kidnapped and imprisoned without charge.
Go back to the New Testament and find the part that says only Jews and Christians are worthy of your concern. That's a part I never read. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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Here is what B'tselem (an Israeli human rights organisation) has to say about administrative detention:
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Administrative detention is detention without charge or trial, authorized by administrative order rather than by judicial decree. It is allowed under international law, but, because of the serious injury to due process rights inherent in this measure and the obvious danger of abuse, international law has placed rigid restrictions on its application. Administrative detention is intended to prevent the danger posed to state security by a particular individual. Israel, however, has never defined the criteria for what constitutes "state security."
Israel's use of administrative detention blatantly violates these restrictions. Over the years, Israel has held Palestinians in prolonged detention without trying them and without informing them of the suspicions against them. While detainees may appeal the detention, neither they nor their attorneys are allowed to see the evidence. Israel has therefore made a charade out of the entire system of procedural safeguards in both domestic and international law regarding the right to liberty and due process.
In 1998, the number of Palestinians held in administrative detention began to gradually decline. From 1999 to October 2001, the average number was less than twenty. The legal basis for holding administrative detainees remained the same, however. This enabled Israel to steadily increase the use of administrative detention after October 2001. This trend increased greatly during and after Operation Defensive Shield. By the beginning of March 2003, Israel held more than one thousand Palestinians in administrative detention. In 2007, Israel held a monthly average of 830 administrative detainees, which was one hundred higher than in 2006.
B'Tselem urges the Israeli government to immediately release all administrative detainees or bring them to trial for any criminal offenses they are suspected of having committed. B'Tselem also calls upon the government to direct the military commanders to amend the military orders applying to the West Bank and the Gaza Strip pursuant to which administrative detention is made, so that it conforms to international legal standards.
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They even keep a table of minors in custody: http://www.btselem.org/english/Statistics/Minors_in_Custody.asp
From another NGO:
Freedom Now: Campaign to Release Palestinian Child Prisoners
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Introduction: Each year, hundreds of Palestinian children from the Occupied Palestinian Territories are arrested, interrogated, and imprisoned by the Israeli military authorities. Since 1992, Defence for Children International/Palestine Section (DCI/PS) has represented many of these children in Israeli military courts, monitoring the conditions of their detention, and intervening with relevant institutions and government bodies in order to improve their situation.
What DCI/PS has witnessed repeatedly through their work with Palestinian child prisoners, and what has been confirmed by other human rights organizations working within the areas under Israeli occupation, are widespread and systematic violations of international law designed to safeguard the rights of children deprived of their liberty. |
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| When children are arrested they are usually taken to adult military detention centres and interrogation centres. There are no specialist juvenile facilities, courts or personnel within the Israeli system apart from Telmond prison which houses around 70 of 350 child prisoners. Frequently, we hear of cases where children are forced to sign confessions, where they are beaten and handcuffed, or subjected to positional abuse, or shabeh (see factsheets for more). Meanwhile, children deprived of their liberty are often denied access to healthcare and education, adequate nutrition, hygiene and recreation time. Family visits are a rare privilege due to travel restrictions on the Palestinian population and frequent detention within Israeli military bases or settlements. Not surprisingly, psycho-social studies indicate that the impact of imprisonment and the horrific experiences suffered by child prisoners has a significant impact on their future development as individuals. |
Now you and your church group can have something new to pray about.
Gilad Shalit is just a young lad, and I hope he is released sooner rather than later. It must be very difficult for him and his family. But remember, Shalit is a soldier in an occupying army. If a country choose to occupy another people for 4 decades, and badly mistreat the occupied populace, it should then be no surprise that unhappy things occasionally happen to their own people. There is no such thing as a free lunch. |
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Trevor
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 1:40 am Post subject: |
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| Yea, Summerwine. What he said. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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Israel may swap prisoners for soldier
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Israel might be prepared to swap hundreds of jailed Palestinians for Gilad Shalit, the Israeli soldier who has been held in captivity in the Gaza Strip for more than two years, senior Israeli officials indicated yesterday.
Ehud Olmert, Israel's prime minister, said yesterday that the Israel Defence Forces' operation in the Gaza Strip had created "renewed momentum" to strike a deal with Hamas for Shalit's return.
Hamas officials in Gaza and the West Bank insisted, for their part, that Shalit, who was captured in a cross-border raid, "would not see the light of day" unless Israel agreed to the release of up to 1,400 Palestinian prisoners.
Shalit has become a cause c�l�bre in Israel. Little information is known about his condition and there have been unconfirmed reports that he had been injured at the beginning of Israel's assault on Gaza.
Hamas's demands have emerged amid claims that members of the Israeli cabinet had "softened" in their resistance to a deal that would release a large number of Palestinian prisoners in Israeli jails in exchange for Shalit's return.
Hamas's list includes a number of long-serving, high-profile figures, including Marwan Barghouti, the jailed Fatah leader, as well as Ahmad Sadat, who was imprisoned for his part in the assassination of an Israeli cabinet minister, Rehavim Ze'evi.
Speculation about a prisoner swap has been driven by comments by Ze'evi's widow, Yael, who said she would not insist on Sadat remaining in prison if it led to the release of Shalit.
The prime minister said yesterday: "The operation created a number of levers that can aid in the expedition of [Shalit's] return. I will not add to this, because this will not benefit his return. After Gilad returns home, it will be possible to tell the whole story."
Israel's foreign minister, Tzipi Livni, who is hoping to replace Olmert in February's elections, has also linked the full lifting of the economic blockade on Gaza to Shalit's release. "If there is something that Hamas wants from Israel, we have one person that we want in return: Gilad Shalit. It is impossible to separate the issues, and it is impossible to advance any other issue before we work towards what is really important to us, the release of Gilad Shalit."
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Looks like good news for Shalit. Summer wine may soon have one less person to pray for. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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Well, Summer Whine, I was just perusing a few pages of a book by a famous Christian when I was reminded that, on June of 2006, Palestinians captured an Israeli soldier (given the date of capture we can happily surmise him to be none other than Shalit himself).
Well, the famous Christian mentions that the Palestinians then offered to exchange him for the release of 95 women and 313 children who were then held in Israeli jails. Are you interested in hearing whether these 408 women and children have yet been released? Are you anxiously awaiting news of their plight?
The famous Christian also mentions (as I think have I) that children are tried as adults, and that this is a violation of international law. Confessions extracted by torture are legally admissible in Israeli courts. And there's a lot of other stuff, that you would no doubt find tediously boring, about other ways in which the Geneva conventions and international law are routinely ignored with regard to Israel's regular kidnapping and treatment of prisoners.
You can read it in chapter 16 of the famous Christian's book - his book can be viewed here. He covers it briefly, about 2 pages, which should just about fit to your short attention span. |
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sarbonn
Joined: 14 Oct 2008
Location: Michigan
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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Gaza prisoners held in harsh and humiliating conditions
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This morning seven Israeli human rights organizations appealed to the Military Judge Advocate General, Brigadier General Avichai Mandelblit, and to Attorney General Meni Mazuz concerning the appalling conditions in which Palestinians arrested during the fighting in Gaza were held, and the humiliating and inhuman treatment to which they were subjected from the time of their arrest until their transfer to the custody of the Israel Prison Service.
The complaint, written by Attorneys Bana Shoughry-Badarne, from the Public Committee Against Torture in Israel, Lila Margalit, from the Association for Civil Rights in Israel and Abeer Jubran-Dakuar, from Hamoked: Center for the Defence of the Individual, was submitted on behalf of those organizations and on behalf of Physicians for Human Rights - Israel, B`Tselem, Yesh Din and Adalah. It is based on statements collected from detainees by lawyers from the Public Committee Against Torture in Israel, as well as on testimony given to Hamoked: the Center for the Defense of the Individual.
The evidence described in the letter provides a shocking portrayal of the harsh, inhuman and degrading conditions in which Palestinian prisoners were held during the initial days of their incarceration. The reports indicate, among other things, that many detainees -- minors as well as adults -- were held for many hours -- sometimes for days -- in pits dug in the ground, exposed to bitter cold and harsh weather, handcuffed and blindfolded. These pits lacked basic sanitary facilities which would have allowed the detainees appropriate toilet facilities, while food and shelter, when provided, were limited, and the detainees went hungry. More seriously, some of the detainees were held near tanks and in combat areas, in gross violation of international humanitarian law which prohibits holding prisoners and captives in areas exposed to danger. |
Children handcuffed and blindfolded and held in open pits in the middle of a harsh Gaza winter - sometimes for days - with no toilets. I hope you are praying for these poor kids, Summer Wine.
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Inappropriate treatment of the detainees continued after they were removed from the pits in which they had been held. For example, some were held overnight in a truck, handcuffed, with one blanket for every two people; some were held for a long time in the rain; there was a lack of blankets, food and water; and there were also incidents involving extreme violence and humiliation by soldiers and interrogators, regarding which complaints will be submitted separately. Detainees continued to be held in humiliating conditions even after being transferred to an [Israeli army] prison facility (located, apparently, at the Sdeh Tayman base) where, for example, they were not provided with toilets or showers.
In view of these harsh accounts, the organizations demand an independent, comprehensive investigation to insure that such treatment of detainees is not repeated. The organizations also request that a number of additional steps be taken to preserve these detainees` rights and insure appropriate conditions of incarceration wherever the army may hold prisoners in the future.
According to Attorney Bana Shoughry-Badarne, Director of the Legal Department of the Public Committee Against Torture in Israel (PCATI): `Israel`s indifference to its moral and legal obligations to detainees is particularly objectionable in view of the fact that official spokesmen have repeatedly declared that the [Israeli army] prepared at length for the Gaza operation. It seems that, during these lengthy preparations, the basic rights of the detainees and captives were completely forgotten, rights that must be protected regardless of the detainees` legal status and whether or not their incarceration is justified.` |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 1:46 am Post subject: |
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By: Ofra Ben-Artzi
Occupation Magazine / CourtWatch
28 January 2009
Translated for Occupation Magazine by George Malent
Original Hebrew: http://www.kibush.co.il/show_file.asp?num=31588
He sits facing the judge and the prosecutor, his defence lawyer beside him. We (observing and reporting) were sitting in the audience, in the front row, and behind us (they are forbidden to sit in front) sat his mother and his wife, silently weeping.
The judge: �Do you confess?�
The interpreter: translates into Arabic.
F: Pausing for a long time, his face and his body move with a kind of spasm of discomfort. One can almost see the �yes� and the �no� running back and forth within him, the torments of indecision between self-respect and the benefit of cooperating, the terrible entrapment of a man whose honour and freedom were taken away from him in front of his mother and his wife, in the face of their mute cries in the name of the sick daughter back at home in the village. The defence lawyer absorbs all this and urges him to confess so that in the end emerges from F�s lips the word �khalas� [1] in a weak voice accompanied by a hand-gesture of resignation.
F is accused of having been a �member of an illegal organization� from 2004 to 2006: the Kutla Islamiya which according to the judge is �the student branch of Hamas�. The sides agreed on a plea-bargain[2]: F, who denied his guilt from the beginning, was forced to retract his denial. The prosecution was forced to settle for a less serious �modified indictment�. And the sentence was agreed upon in advance accordingly. For the prosecution, the weak points in the file were �evidentiary difficulties�, �the passage of time�[3] between the alleged commission of the offense (3-5 years ago) and the arrest that took place only 5 months ago, following in incrimination, [4] and also personal circumstances: the accused has a sick baby.
At the end of the deliberations, when the time came for the judgement, we were convinced that F would be released. It was clear that a fine or the alternative of imprisonment for two weeks was on the agenda. The defense lawyer had already handed the fine slip to the mother so that she could pay it, but then suddenly administrative detention[5], which had not been mentioned at all until then, was raised. The defense lawyer hastened to take back the slip from the mother, while protesting to the judge that there was no point in paying a fine if F was not going to be released in any case. The judge for her part scolded the prosecutor for not having mentioned the administrative detention during the plea bargaining process, although she accepted that these were two distinct procedures that were completely unconnected from each other. The prosecutor replied that the complete separation between the two procedures was intended to ensure that the accused would not be released by mistake.
It turns out that 2 detentions were imposed on F: detention until the conclusion of the judicial proceedings, which was supposed to end upon the conclusion of the deliberations in return for the payment of a fine following the plea-bargain, and at the same time he was given administrative detention until the beginning of April, which may very well be prolonged, if it is the Israel Security Agency (Shin Bet) that makes the decision.
F is a talented engineer, who completed his engineering studies in London with distinction and has worked in recent years with European engineers all over the West Bank. We witnessed here his destruction and his irrelevance in the face of the omnipotent Occupation machine that is directed and backed by a well-oiled judicial machine. F is an example and a model of what happened and has been happening to tens of thousands of his compatriots over the course of decades. The entire Palestinian society is shouting through him �khalas�.
Over the years during which we have been observing in the military courts we have witnessed this �khalas� again and again. We have seen how people in the best years of their lives, at the height of building their careers, who have just begun to establish families, the people who constitute the foundation and the spine of every society, who contribute with all their energy to its development and progress, are fatally neutralized at one blow. When we�re talking about thousands of the best of the sons and daughters of Palestinian society, how can we not mention the term �politicide� that was coined by the late Professor Baruch Kimmerling in his book of the same title, the meaning of which is political genocide?
[1] �Khalas�: a very common Arabic expression that literally means �finished�, or �over�. In this context it is used as an interjection to express despair or resignation, and means something like, �forget it� - trans.
[2] Plea bargain: a common and accepted procedure in the trials of Palestinians in the Occupied Territories . It well serves the military justice system, the objective of which is to judge a maximum number of people in the minimum amount of time. A plea bargain saves precious time, without giving the appearance of compromising the principle of �fair trial�. The Palestinians for their part waive a full judicial proceeding which could acquit them, in which they could prove their innocence. They are compelled to confess to a lesser offense, in return for which they receive a lesser sentence than what they could have expected before the bargain. Thus does the Occupation system criminalize an entire society.
[3] The passage of time, delay: a situation in which there is a big time-lag between the commission of the offense and the arrest of the suspect. This is particularly conspicuous regarding Hamas: people who were active in Hamas when it was a legal movement retroactively became criminals from the moment that it was made illegal in June 2007. They are put on trial for activism or membership in Hamas 6-7 years ago. Hundreds if not thousands who were involved and active in elections that took place in January 2006, when the movement was legal, are today sitting in jail � from those who held a flag in a procession to the most senior ministers. Also youths who threw stones in their childhood are tried and punished for that after years later.
[4] Incrimination: in many of the deliberations that we have attended, the accused are incriminated by witnesses. The incriminators can be relatives, friends, neighbours � they may also be �medovevim� (lit: people who cause others to speak), called �birds� by the Palestinians, who inundate the detention centres for the declared purpose of incriminating detainees. This is yet another base means by which the occupier fragments the society. By the way, it often occurs that those who incriminated while testifying at a trial recant and revert to being hostile witnesses.
[5] Administrative detention: about 600 Palestinians are now sitting in Israeli jails as administrative detainees. According to Betselem �Administrative detention is detention without charge or trial, authorized by administrative order rather than by judicial decree. It is allowed under international law, but, because of the serious injury to due process rights inherent in this measure and the obvious danger of abuse, international law has placed rigid restrictions on its application. � Israel `s use of administrative detention blatantly violates these restrictions.� http://www.btselem.org/English/Administrative_Detention/Index.asp
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http://www.kibush.co.il/show_file.asp?num=31763 |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:12 am Post subject: |
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PNA: Deal For Gilad Shalit Could Lead To Increased Hamas Control
February 9, 2009 | 1844 GMT
Fatah officials fear that an agreement to free Gilad Shalit, an Israeli soldier held by Hamas since June 2006, could bring early elections and increase Hamas� control over the Palestinian National Authority, Haaretz reported on Feb. 9. Fatah officials said that if Shalit is released, Hamas parliamentary representatives currently in Israeli prisons would be freed in exchange and could call early elections. Fatah officials added that Hamas would win not only a large majority in parliament, but the presidency as well, a post currently held by Mahmoud Abbas of Fatah.
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http://www.stratfor.com/sitrep/20090209_pna_deal_gilad_shalit_could_lead_increased_hamas_control |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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| You know I used to think it was only the Palestinian leadership that kept on doing dumb things. Seems Israel's isn't far behind. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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Israel PM's family link to Hamas peace bid
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Olmert rejected Palestinian attempts to set up talks through go-between before Gaza invasion
Hamas, the militant Palestinian organisation, attempted to conduct secret talks with the Israeli leadership in the protracted run-up to the recent war in Gaza - with messages being passed from the group at one stage through a member of prime minister Ehud Olmert's family.
Confirmation of attempts to establish a direct line of communication between Hamas and Israel - and the willingness of senior figures in Hamas to contemplate direct negotiations - fundamentally alters the narrative of the build-up to the war in Gaza which claimed more than 1,300 Palestinian lives and led to about a dozen Israeli deaths.
Most remarkable is the story of the involvement of a member of the prime minister's family in the passing of messages to Olmert about the case of the kidnapped Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit.
Although the Observer is aware of the identity of the family member and full details of the role played, it has agreed to protect anonymity. Gershon Baskin, a veteran Israel peace activist, was at the centre of attempts to open negotiations. Baskin was in touch with senior members of Hamas, Israeli officials and Olmert, via the member of his family.
Over two years, from the kidnap of Shalit, which triggered Israel's economic blockade of the Gaza Strip and its 1.5 million residents right up to the days before Israel launched its three-week long assault, Hamas officials expressed a willingness to talk to Israel directly about the kidnap, conditions for a new ceasefire and the ending of the blockade.
The motivation - from Hamas's side - stemmed from a growing frustration with the role of Egypt as an intermediary over key issues between the two sides, especially in relation to ceasefires.
Baskin, who has a long background in encouraging Israeli-Palestinian contacts, believes that the failure to pursue the overtures was a lost opportunity that contributed to the outbreak of conflict.
"Three times since Shalit's kidnapping [in June 2006 during a cross border raid out of Gaza] there has been the suggestion of opening a back channel through me. The first time that Hamas suggested to me opening a secret back channel was not long after Shalit's kidnapping."
According to Baskin, that offer was immediately rejected by the office of Olmert who said Israel did not negotiate with terrorists. His contacts, said Baskin, were two-fold. On the Hamas side, his contact was a senior figure whom he met in Europe, who was close to the organisation's leaderships both in the Syrian capital Damascus and the local leadership in Gaza. His liaison with the Hamas official focused on two issues: opening secret and direct contacts, and linking the prisoner exchange for Shalit's release to the renewal of the ceasefire and the ending of the economic siege on Gaza.
Baskin's "messenger" to Olmert on the Israeli side was the family member. "I was getting messages to Olmert through [this person]. And what I was getting back from Olmert through the same route was: 'We don't negotiate with terrorists'."
As part of this communication, which went on sporadically for months, Hamas offered a video proving Shalit was still alive, which would be supplied, the organisation said, in exchange for the release of some women and other minor prisoners from Israeli jails. Olmert's response - said Baskin - was that they did not need the video as Israel had already established that the soldier was alive. While that was rejected, the contact did, however, lead to a letter from Shalit to his father.
It was a channel of communication that was abruptly closed, allegedly when Israel's domestic intelligence agency Shin Bet intercepted members of Hamas discussing the identity of the Olmert family member involved in passing on the messages, infuriating Olmert.
A year after the first contacts, Baskin told the Observer, he had been given approval to pursue an informal effort to open secret direct contacts, co-ordinating with Ofer Dekel, the official appointed by Olmert as his "special representative" to head efforts for Shalit's return.
This time, however, it was Hamas's turn to block the opening of the secret negotiations - rejecting the linking of the prisoner exchange with the cease-fire and the end of the siege.
Baskin persisted with his dealings with Hamas, communicating with his contact through scores of emails, some passed on to the leadership in Syria and Gaza. While some hardliners, he readily admits, were not willing to initiate contacts - including Said Siam, the interior minister killed during Operation Cast Lead, and Mahmoud Zahar, who served as foreign minister - Baskin was able to reach other Hamas figures by email and text message - among them Hamas moderate and sometime spokesman Ghazi Hamad.
By now, Baskin admitted, his efforts to mediate between the two sides were largely his own initiative as he found himself increasingly shut out of the Israeli efforts to negotiate Shalit's release. He attempted too to use the Olmert "family member".
Two years after his first contacts through the Olmert family - and with war looming - Baskin said he tried to use his contact again. "I only involved [the person] one more time. I was desperate to get a message to Olmert." This time, however, he was told bluntly that he would "need to find another messenger". He told the Observer: "At this point war had already been decided on."
With the conflict only two weeks away Baskin arranged a meeting with his key Hamas contact in Europe, which resulted in another offer to link Shalit to the lifting of the ceasefire. Nobody on the Israeli side replied to the final offer.
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