Korean Job Discussion Forums

[tomoyopop]

Hey all. First a little bit of background about me, for all the suspicious members who've just eyed my join date. ^_~

I'm a second generation Korean-American female, 21, who's been bitten by the "teaching English in Korea for teh monehz" bug. I'm not yet a college graduate (don't think I will be for a couple more semesters at least, looking at the United States economy ), and thus have applied to the TaLK (Teach and Learn in Korea, www.talk.go.kr ) program, which does not require a college degree. The program's "specialty" is assigning accepted English teachers to elementary schools (I think we're all teaching 6th grade) in rural areas. I am assigned to an elementary school in Dalseong-gu, Daegu. Way out in the boonies.

Note: "gyopo"/교포 is the Korean word for Koreans born outside of South Korea. Though the specific definition is something like "immigrant". Correct me on this.

Now, don't think I haven't done my homework prior to posting this. I've meticulously read through pages and pages and pages of threads, reading through various issues, formulating my own opinions, making mental notes, bookmarking important threads, generating questions, etc. etc.

I just wanted to address the extreme dearth in topics related to gyopos and their experiences while teaching in Korea, be it at hagwons or at public schools.

(I would also like to address the almost total lack of any mention in the forum of the TaLK program, which has caused me to feel some suspicion. Sure, no news is good news, but at the same time...? However, that's a different topic so I will address that separately.)

It seems that the majority of the members here are of non-Korean descent, and while I know that gyopos have most definitely gone to Korea and have taught, or are teaching, English at some institution, so far I haven't read of any personal experiences.

It seems that most of the members' posts and frustrations stem from cultural differences between Korea and their respective country. However, I really want to know how different the English-teaching experience is for gyopos, the majority of whom have been raised with Korean culture in their family lives.

For example, I consider myself very familiar with Korean society, culture, and tradition. I speak Korean fluently, though I was born here. I went to Seoul as a foreign exchange student for one year, and attend a Korean church here in the States. I keep up to date with basic Korean current events, know the general views and pop culture of Korean society, etc. etc.

However, I am still an American girl (har har), and have definitely experienced mental clashes of that with traditional Korean ideology. That, plus I think I'm pretty free-spirited and hate being told what to do bluntly because I'm younger and am therefore thought that I know nothing, which is what Korean adults do in their sleep. Nothing raises my hackles more than mindless commanding. I'm not a docile Korean girl, lol. I guess this is the American in me. Sigh.

Blah blah blah, I know the two cultures pretty well, etc. etc.

I imagine that Korean employees would be in a quandary with us gyopos. For one thing, we are familiar with the culture and language (more or less) so cultural clashes might be experienced less than with non-gyopo teachers = less hassle with training and explaining things and culture shock. On the other hand, there's a high chance of being our physical features being used as an excuse to condone treating us like actual Koreans. For example, just because we look Korean, older teachers think they can get away with forcing us to follow certain expected traditions, etc. That's manipulation and abuse, and I will not tolerate it. At the same time, the Korean side of me wants to maintain harmony and be considered a good addition to the school. I just don't want to be considered a doormat.

If you're of Korean descent with plenty of experience with both cultures, how do you deal with all of these subtle nuances concerning merging two different cultures in the workplace without getting labeled as the renegade, and thus perpetuating the "gyopos are bad" image?

Also, anything regarding teacher image in the classroom will be greatly appreciated. Korean students are smart/cunning, and are always looking for a way out of the system, and the fact that I'm only 5'3" without heels and have a really young face (I've had the unpleasant experience of being asked countless times if I'm in junior/high school ugh) worries me; I'm afraid the students will think I'm a joke and won't take me seriously because I'm not a big burly white guy, heels and perm or no heels and no perm. Will they even take a Korean-American teacher seriously?

I can be scary when I want to, and yeah, I know all about how the teacher should lay the smack down as soon as you walk into the classroom the first day, but still. On the other hand, they won't be able to get away with saying crap against me in Korean to my face and not having me know, lol.

Basically, I don't want to be considered a pushover, and actually leave after 6 months having contributed to their English vocabulary somehow.

Any other things you want to contribute regarding the general gist of this thread? Any tips to a young greenhorn that will be there in like a month, and is thoroughly freaked out by a lot of the material she's read in this forum?

C'mon, you guys! Out of the woodwork! I'm sure there's several of you reading through these posts quietly, haha.

(Non-gyopos are more than welcome to contribute, also, about their experiences working with gyopos if they have, both negative and positive. In fact, please do! I'm eager to break the negative image that most gyopos seem to bring to the English teacher world in Korea. Or world in general. Most people seem to think of us as shallow, uncommitted, lazy, privileged, promiscuous, hedonistic, proud, dumb, fat, loud, rude, defiant, and loose with money. Beat that for stereotypes. )

Thanks all!

[sakamuras]

If you've really done a thorough job in combing through the threads here on Dave's, you should know gyopos aren't very welcome here. As you said, gyopos have the luxury of seeing things from two points of view. Most posters/readers here only have one and will challenge you to no end (regardless of how ignorant they sound). You will inevitably be called a "troll" at the end of any meaningful debate.

That's just the way this board is run.

[Mr. Pink]

The biggest thing that I can see counting against you:

You are really young and still don't have a degree. Thus, you will probably be treated like crap due to those two things. If I had to wager, I'd say the fact that you know Korean will be in your favor, rather than against you. Lots of foreigners like to rag on the Kyopos...but IMO there are two general types in each group. You sound like the fun to be with Kyopo...yes, there are lots of those around.

I wonder how many PMs you're going to get asking if your "hot"

[tomoyopop]

[tomoyopop]

[blackjack]

The main issue for you will be language (sorry I only scanned your post my attention span is not what it once was)

Can you speak fluent Korean? If yes then life can be good here.
Can you speak understandable korean? It will certainly make life easier.
Can you speak little to no korean? If so you may end up being treated as a retard.

I know a few gypos at each of the language levels listed, the ones that speak perfect korean love it here, they have the best of both worlds, while the ones that speak little to no korean hate it here.

Your age also will be an issue, most 21 year olds here are living at home, tend to be relatively immature in certain ways, yet more mature in others. you will be treated as a child and expected to obey what your elders tell you.

If you are going with the talk program you will most likely be placed in the back end of no-where, places that can be very conservative, where there are very few people your own age. I haven't lived in small town korea but i have visited quite a few places and it's like nothing I have seen. The average age is old, the cities (they call them towns but compared with NZ they are cities) are old (well looking), it sometimes feels as if you have gone back in time but they have kept the cars and superfast internet.

I assume you will be coming over on an F4 right? Have you thought of applying at a hagwon? I know you don't have a degree, but well most hagwons won't care and I don't know, but I don't think it is against the law.

Good luck

[Steelrails]

I'm not a straight kyopo, I'm adopted, but I also went to a Korean church and many of my friends were Korean. Thanks to that time I came here with a sprinkling of Korean, familiarity and ease with hangul, and some basic reflexes for customs.

The thing about Korea is it will definately decide for you whether or not you like the place and how you feel. You'll probably either love it or hate it.

The big things are non-culture related. This is a REAL job. Be prepared to work, as in preparing lesson plans, making materials, scouring up worksheets, etc.

This is also a job in which you are in a sense a leader to the 30 kids in your classroom, you can't be too soft or too harsh. Your going to be so happy you know Korean when it comes to classroom management.

My students take me seriously. Your bigger than most of your students anyway. The key isn't size, it is following through with what you say. You cannot show weakness. They will pick up on it and exploit it.

As for my coworkers, so far it has been like a more professional version of church. I work in a small city in the boonies but people here are pretty understanding. If there are any problems, the key is not let it linger, nip it in the bud. This is for when they do something to you (i.e. inappropriate touching) or you do something to them (make a cultural faux pas) Most seem happy that you're trying to discover more about Korea. They didn't expect me to know too much about Korean customs, but it might be different from me because my Korean speaking ability is very limited.

My church helped prepare me sooo much, and so did my Korean boss in the States, I really thank God for that. Don't worry too much. You'll have a better instinctive grasp of Korean things than most. Actually church at times felt more stifling than Korea has.

One thing about the age thing is that you will definately see it work more in your favor than back home. Where as I didn't follow the age rules too closely (except for the clearly older) and thus didn't receive the benefits, over here it is still expected. I am older, the younger ones do what I say. If I want a sandwich delivered to me, they go out and get it. If you don't do that kind of stuff sometimes it just confuses people. It's not being mean. It's just the way things are.

One thing I've noticed with a lot of the kyopo TaLK people (I'm not in TaLK btw) is that they tend to hang out with each other and spend a lot of time together. I for one did not come to Korea to hang out with Kyopos
or Americans or to do American things. I hope you are not either. Doing that will be a real waste. Of course we need our English time, but keep it limited. Nothing is worse than a bunch of people from America in Korea wanting to play poker or watch TV or eat pizza constantly. It's like the 1s and 1.5s who always ate out at Seoul Garden or watched Korean Dramas all day.

Being in a smaller city can be a small bit of a problem with dialects, even as an adoptee with minimal Korean I noticed it and had problems with it.

I've already woven in some of my background story, but to add to it, coming here has been great. This is my first time here since I was born. There are stumbles, but I see why all my Korean friends wanted me to go see Korea and why they love to be here. I was prepared for the worst over here, but I hoped and prayed for the best. In the end I knew this is where God wanted me to be, and so many things have shown that to be the case. For me at least it's like being at Korean church day after day, which may sound boring to some, but if you have positive church experiences, then you understand how that can be a good thing, a little boring at times, but a good thing.

Finding a church is great too and lets you be familiar with things. You can go to English service in a big city or attend a local Korean service. I'm sure someone at your church can recommend a church over here. Either way be sure to bring your baptismal certificate as a way to introduce yourself. A letter of introduction from moksanim might be a good idea as well.

Sorry I'm not very organized with this reply, I'm just trying to through what's going on inside the old noggin down onto type.

Don't let the Korea haters on Dave's get too much into your head. Most of the non-Korean FTs here are nice people who are having a good experience here. You don't see them on Dave's as much because they are usually out doing things and meeting new people because, unlike the people on here who are always having problems, they actually have people skills.

Hope this helps and enjoy your time in Korea.

[kiwiduncan]

[Captain Corea]

^^ yeah, I've got to say, anyone who doesn't want Kyopos on this board, really needs to consider relocating. As far as I know, this board is open to all.

I posted in your other thread OP, so wanted to say it again - good luck.

[E_athlete]

being a kyopo must be pretty good since you probably get a f4 visa which i think means you can work multiple jobs (am i right?). I talked to the public school teachers here and they are forbidden to work at hagwons as a side job.

[tomoyopop]

[tomoyopop]

[benji1422]

I know a lot of gypos working in Seoul. The most happy ones are the guys because every girl wants to go out with --> marry them. They go out every night with the latest pop stars. Also I believe men are more primed for heirarchy as part of their work lives (fraternities, military) so we can fit into a rigid system if need be. In other words, we can eat s--- to get ahead.

The Korean American women are often unhappy. Their expectations have been unreasonably set up that they are "liberated" by growing up in the US only to find that Korean women are still struggling with many issues. Here are some challenges:

1) your American spirit may be welcome but also perceived as disrespectful as a young woman to older conservative people. It's cool to some industries, like entertainment/fashion etc, but to a backwater school... your Mulan spirit is probably not going to go over well all the time to older teachers. There is a phrase Korean natives tell me all the time which is very condescending towards Asian Americanwomen. They say (usually of an AA woman they met), "She's too strong."
2) Korean culture has a huge problem with envy. They envy that you speak English, grew up in America. There will be people who wanna hang out with you because your American... then the people who torture you for the same reason. i.e. making up lies, plotting against you.
3) If you understand the culture, and speak fluent Korean they are expecting you to act like a Korean who went through the school system there. But you didn't study 20 hours a day -- maybe you smoked weed and went to football games or watched Gilmore Girls instead. You don't have that status of going to a certain high school/college to show where you fit in, in terms of status (being white, we get around this status question), or even the status of going through the school system at all. Thus you don't fit in some groups of people who all went to the same ____ [insert school]
4) if you DON'T speak fluent Korean, or overestimate how well you know the culture, some rude people will treat you as a non-entity lower than them. This is what happens to many gypos (remember, S. Koreans look down on N. Korean refugees giving them the lowest status jobs even though they are literally the same blood). It's not everyone, but "hicks" and older farmers will be more prone to this.
5) Hanging out at a Korean church in suburbia and listening to Super Junior does not prepare you for the extreme drinking culture where you are expected to drink until you vomit, the sexual harassment culture (which is 10:1 unbalanced for women). I can't even get into this, because it involves a whole book, but for liberal, western educated asian american women, men's behavior is an issue. It is the elephant in the room among all AA females. It's avoidable in cosmopolitan Seoul where groups of westernized college kids hang out in groups at night clubs like Manhattanites... Incidents involving you may range from amusing to extremely disturbing.

Don't have any tips about teaching because nobody I know in Korea (gypo or non-gypo) was or is a teacher but I hope that helps. It's based on my, my friends, my gypo and AA friends experience. Good luck!

PS: I just wanted to add that these are just the negatives/pitfalls. In all likelihood because of your age you will have an interesting experience and I would recommend you go!

[Privateer]

[redaxe]