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kiwiduncan
Joined: 18 Jun 2007
Location: New Zealand
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 Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 9:17 pm Post subject: An article from The Korea Times about bike accidents |
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Interesting article below. I've had a few close calls while riding on Seoul's streets, but it hasn't been too bad. Taxi drivers are pretty bad, but bus drivers can be quite considerate. My theory is that the rise in accidents will be largely due to the increasing numbers of cyclists have who yet to gain the skills and confidence to ride in traffic safely. I'd like to see the authorities putting as much money and effort into safety education and promoting considerate cycling and driving as they put into making bike paths, as there's no point in developing bike paths if cyclists can't use normal roads safely as well.
How have other cyclist's coped on Korea's streets and bikepaths? What do you worry about more - traffic accidents or air pollution? Do you stick to bike paths or use the roads as well?
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As bicycle popularity rises, so do accidents (Korea Times July 14, 2009)
By Kim Rahn
Staff Reporter
The number of accidents involving bicycles is surging in line with the growing popularity of riding bikes for commuting and leisure.
Experts say that the country needs to improve its bike related facilities and traffic laws, and that riders should receive education about safe riding.
According to the Road Traffic Authority, Tuesday, Korea had 7,922 accidents involving bicycles in 2006, but the figure jumped to 10,848 last year, a 37 percent hike. Most of the accidents were collisions involving bikes and cars.
From those accidents, 11,425 people died or were injured last year, up 38 percent from 2006's total of 8,291. Among the casualties, 313 were fatal, accounting for 5.3 percent of the total number of people who died from traffic accidents last year, 5,870.
The increase in bicycle accidents is contrary to the decrease in total traffic accidents: there were 215,000 traffic accidents in 2008, down 26 percent from 290,000 in 2000. But during the same period, the number of bicycle accidents skyrocketed by 71 percent.
As to the rise of accidents, experts pointed out that the country lacks necessary infrastructure and rules for bicycle riding, while bicycles are gaining popularity as a means of exercise and an environment-friendly, cost-reducing mode of transit.
Seoul has 729 kilometers of roads for bicycles, but only 123 kilometers are designated as ``bike-only," while the rest are sidewalks divided into two lanes, one for pedestrians and one for bikes. Among the 123 kilometers, only 44 kilometers are on streets downtown, with the remainder alongside rivers or in parks.
``We need infrastructure for bicycles, and especially that for daily living rather than riverside ones for leisure. It is more convenient to ride a bicycle than a car when going to a close place, but people take cars when visiting a market just 500 meters away from home because the road conditions are unsafe and inconvenient for bike riders,'' Kim Young-bok, head of the Korea Bicyclists Association's Seoul branch, said.
Traffic laws rarely have regulations for bicycle riders' safety, Kim said, adding that bicycle-friendly nations such as Germany have separate lanes and traffic lights for bikes from those for cars.
He also stressed the importance of education on bike riding and traffic safety from an early age. ``We have to teach children traffic regulations and safety from kindergarten, such as wearing a helmet when riding bikes. Such efforts will lead to an advanced bicycle riding culture,'' Kim said.
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fermentation
Joined: 22 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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Bicycles are just another one of those things you have to watch out for in Korea. I have a true story from my mother who saw a college kid on a bike graze a woman holding a baby. The baby started screaming like crazy and the mother freaked out when she saw blood coming out of its head. The kid also freaked out but went to the hospital with the woman and the baby. I guess the bike handle grazed the babies head, and since babies have really soft heads, it started bleeding.
I've been grazed by scooters and my friends have been grazed by cars. Its one thing if it happens to adults, but little children and babies could die from this reckless driving. I don't care if it's culture to not have the same concept of space, but people should watch what the hell they're doing when driving vehicles.
Another problem with cyclists here is that they drive on the road with cars. I've seen people weave in and out of moving traffic. It is extremely dangerous and I suspect some of these dudes have a death wish (or after blood money). |
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b-class rambler
Joined: 25 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 10:06 pm Post subject: |
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| fermentation wrote: |
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Another problem with cyclists here is that they drive on the road with cars. I've seen people weave in and out of moving traffic. |
I'd agree that it's better for everyone if cyclists mix with pedeestrians rather than cars, but the above situation is no different to what happens in Britain. So I don't think that's the main problem.
| kiwiduncan wrote: |
| . My theory is that the rise in accidents will be largely due to the increasing numbers of cyclists have who yet to gain the skills and confidence to ride in traffic safely.I'd like to see the authorities putting as much money and effort into safety education and promoting considerate cycling and driving as they put into making bike paths, as there's no point in developing bike paths if cyclists can't use normal roads safely as well. |
That's the problem in a nutshell really, but I think it needs to go further than just promoting bike and car safety. A lot of expats here bemoan the dangers of driving in Korea and point to the fairly high rate of road deaths. But one factor often overlooked is that those high numbers are often down to stupid things done by people who are NOT driving, i.e pedestrians.
Driving around both urban and rural Korea you frequently come across people who just have no idea of pedestrian safety in a society where cars are so prevalent. I drive over 20,000km a year here and I'd say of all the situations where I cursed someone else's stupidity at nearly causing an accident, more times it was a pedestrian than another driver.
My worry would be that any extra cyclists created in future are going to be former pedestrians rather than former drivers. Even bad drivers at least have some kind of road sense.
Last edited by b-class rambler on Tue Jul 14, 2009 10:07 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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kiwiduncan
Joined: 18 Jun 2007
Location: New Zealand
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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| fermentation wrote: |
Bicycles are just another one of those things you have to watch out for in Korea. I have a true story from my mother who saw a college kid on a bike graze a woman holding a baby. The baby started screaming like crazy and the mother freaked out when she saw blood coming out of its head. The kid also freaked out but went to the hospital with the woman and the baby. I guess the bike handle grazed the babies head, and since babies have really soft heads, it started bleeding.
I've been grazed by scooters and my friends have been grazed by cars. Its one thing if it happens to adults, but little children and babies could die from this reckless driving. I don't care if it's culture to not have the same concept of space, but people should watch what the hell they're doing when driving vehicles.
Another problem with cyclists here is that they drive on the road with cars. I've seen people weave in and out of moving traffic. It is extremely dangerous and I suspect some of these dudes have a death wish (or after blood money). |
It's good that the cyclist at least went along to the hospital with the mother and child. Did you mother say where she saw this? I assume it was on a footpath or a bikepath.
That's all the more reason for cyclists to be on the roads, rather than always being obliged to share footpaths with pedestrians. I actually feel more at risk on the Han River bike paths than on the main roads. As long as you're paying attention when you're among the cars and buses, the traffic flows and vehicle movements are quite predictable. That's not the case when sharing the bikepaths with pedestrians and lots and lots of inexperienced cyclists.
Also, I think it sucks for pedestrians if the footpaths get taken over my cyclists. If the pavements become unofficial bike paths then the walkers have no where else to go.
Weaving in and out of traffic is not as dangerous as it looks. Again, you've just got to be very attentive and show equal degrees of considerateness and assertiveness. |
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Bronski
Joined: 17 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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| What exactly is the rule about where you're supposed to walk and ride on the bikepaths? I've had people tell me I'm on the wrong side whether I'm walking on the left or the right. |
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kiwiduncan
Joined: 18 Jun 2007
Location: New Zealand
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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| b-class rambler wrote: |
| fermentation wrote: |
.
Another problem with cyclists here is that they drive on the road with cars. I've seen people weave in and out of moving traffic. |
I'd agree that it's better for everyone if cyclists mix with pedeestrians rather than cars, but the above situation is no different to what happens in Britain. So I don't think that's the main problem. |
I lived in Oxford - the city with arguably the highest proportion of cycle commuters in the UK - on and off for three years and much preferred to be on the road than on bikepaths there.
From my experience the bikepaths in the UK were very often poorly designed and inconvenient to use (well, proper bikepaths were ok, but the shared pavement/bikepaths were crap). When I was riding on the Oxford roads I'd be able to get from A to B much faster than when I was on the pavement/bikepaths, as on those there'd be old ladies, mothers with strollers, school kids and students all over the place. There was no way I could ride fast without putting walkers at risk, so I'd stick to the roads.
I'm all for providing safe and well-designed bikepaths for cyclists who just want to cruise along and/or aren't skilled or confident enough to ride on the roads, but I think cyclists have a place on the roads too. The problem with bikepaths is that they can actually make cyclists less safety conscious and more inconsiderate. Cyclists in Oxford would ride around at night with no lights or helmets because they thought they were invincible on the bike paths and, as I mentioned before, having cyclists on the shared pavements/bikepaths kind of forces pedestrians off - who knows, they might even start driving.
Also, having bikepaths everywhere means drivers often start thinking cyclists shouldn't be on the roads at all. Of course I don't want to be one of those cocky cyclists who deliberately ride in a way to piss-off motorists the Oxford Critical Mass cyclists were actually quite obnoxious), but acccording to Korean law, New Zealand law and UK law a bicycle is officially a vehicle, and we have every right to be on the road. |
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ajgeddes
Joined: 28 Apr 2004
Location: Yongsan
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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| It would be nice if people realized that bikes should go on the bike paths where there are bike paths. Mokdong has pretty decent bike paths. One day, I was walking with a buddy down the sidewalk (made of bricks) and a guy came along and started ringing his bell for us to move out of his way. Meanwhile, there was a bike path (made of that smoother red concrete/asphalt) right beside us, separated by a narrow row of plants and nobody was using it. It was also covered in the outlines of bikes, so it couldn't have been any clearer it was for bikes. But instead, he decided to ride on the uneven sidewalk and ring his bell at people. |
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kiwiduncan
Joined: 18 Jun 2007
Location: New Zealand
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 10:32 pm Post subject: |
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| ajgeddes wrote: |
| It would be nice if people realized that bikes should go on the bike paths where there are bike paths. Mokdong has pretty decent bike paths. One day, I was walking with a buddy down the sidewalk (made of bricks) and a guy came along and started ringing his bell for us to move out of his way. Meanwhile, there was a bike path (made of that smoother red concrete/asphalt) right beside us, separated by a narrow row of plants and nobody was using it. It was also covered in the outlines of bikes, so it couldn't have been any clearer it was for bikes. But instead, he decided to ride on the uneven sidewalk and ring his bell at people. |
I agree, that's really obnoxious behaviour, and I do think there are as many bad cyclists as there are bad drivers.
Korea does admittedly have some very good bikepaths - especially the ones where there is plenty of width and the walking and cycling sections are clearly delineated - often with raised blocks, low fences or plants as you mentioned.
Seoul's plans to expand the Seoul bike network substantially over the next few years has my full support. I do actually use the bikepaths when they are well-designed and not too crowded. But I'd rather risk being grazed by a taxi than have a 4 year old suddenly run across my path (let's put it this way, how often do to see Korean families having picnics in the middle of the road?  )
I just hope that the confident, quick and, hopefully, considerate cyclists who are happy to use the road system aren't pressureed into using only bikepaths.
Last edited by kiwiduncan on Tue Jul 14, 2009 10:39 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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fermentation
Joined: 22 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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| kiwiduncan wrote: |
It's good that the cyclist at least went along to the hospital with the mother and child. Did you mother say where she saw this? I assume it was on a footpath or a bikepath.
Weaving in and out of traffic is not as dangerous as it looks. Again, you've just got to be very attentive and show equal degrees of considerateness and assertiveness. |
She saw on the sidewalk, right in front of where my grandmother lives. They were lucky because there's a hospital right next to where my grandmother lives. I wish there were separate bike paths and cyclists with enough sense to use them. I always assumed cycling in Seoul was dangerous because driving here surely isn't. |
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GoldMember
Joined: 24 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 10:57 pm Post subject: |
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Please help me out I'm not very good at maths.
2006 7922 accidents and 8,291 deaths or injuries
2008 10848 accidents and 11,425 deaths or injuries.
Now I'm assuming that when the car driver hits the cyclist, the car driver does not sustain an injury.
Secondly I don't see many tandem bikes on the road.
Just wondering if the figures are totally accurate.
As for the contention that cyclists need to learn how to ride better. I have this gut feeling that maybe its the motorists who need to learn to drive better. |
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b-class rambler
Joined: 25 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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| GoldMember wrote: |
As for the contention that cyclists need to learn how to ride better. I have this gut feeling that maybe its the motorists who need to learn to drive better. |
Or could it possibly be a bit of both? |
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kiwiduncan
Joined: 18 Jun 2007
Location: New Zealand
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 11:14 pm Post subject: |
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| GoldMember wrote: |
Please help me out I'm not very good at maths.
2006 7922 accidents and 8,291 deaths or injuries
2008 10848 accidents and 11,425 deaths or injuries.
Now I'm assuming that when the car driver hits the cyclist, the car driver does not sustain an injury.
Secondly I don't see many tandem bikes on the road.
Just wondering if the figures are totally accurate.
As for the contention that cyclists need to learn how to ride better. I have this gut feeling that maybe its the motorists who need to learn to drive better. |
Yes, I'd say that except in very rare cases (eg, a cyclist going through the windscreen) drivers usually avoid any major injuries - though they might get a bit of whiplashing from braking suddenly.
I've never seen tandems on the roads in Korea, but maybe you can hire them down by the Han river. Has anyone ever seen them there?
I think drivers often need to be more aware of the growing number cyclists, but a lot of cyclists I've seen in Korea really seem to lack skills and confidence, usually because they haven't ridden for years.
I've seen lots of young Korean women cycling down by the Han river, riding rental bikes with highheels on, wobbling all over the place and laughing like kids - probably because the last time they rode a bike was when they were actually kids. It might be some time before they get the experience needed to confidently ride on the main roads, but it's good to see them giving it a go.
For anyone interested, here's a link to the Cycling in Korea facebook group.
http://www.facebook.com/s.php?q=cycling+international&init=quick#/group.php?gid=11799660100 |
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the oak llama
Joined: 05 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 8:56 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Please help me out I'm not very good at maths.
2006 7922 accidents and 8,291 deaths or injuries
2008 10848 accidents and 11,425 deaths or injuries.
Now I'm assuming that when the car driver hits the cyclist, the car driver does not sustain an injury.
Secondly I don't see many tandem bikes on the road.
Just wondering if the figures are totally accurate.
As for the contention that cyclists need to learn how to ride better. I have this gut feeling that maybe its the motorists who need to learn to drive better.
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I was thinking about that too.
They are citing accidents involving bicycles, which could mean bike vs. pedestrian, which would make sense for multiple injuries from one incident.
Or if a cyclist gets a car door there's a chance that the person in the car while catch an extremity to the face.
Last scenario I will offer: Tandem stunt riding. Out of the half pipe and into the crowd. Is it so unlikely? |
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b-class rambler
Joined: 25 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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| the oak llama wrote: |
| Quote: |
Please help me out I'm not very good at maths.
2006 7922 accidents and 8,291 deaths or injuries
2008 10848 accidents and 11,425 deaths or injuries.
Now I'm assuming that when the car driver hits the cyclist, the car driver does not sustain an injury.
Secondly I don't see many tandem bikes on the road.
Just wondering if the figures are totally accurate.
As for the contention that cyclists need to learn how to ride better. I have this gut feeling that maybe its the motorists who need to learn to drive better.
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I was thinking about that too.
They are citing accidents involving bicycles, which could mean bike vs. pedestrian, which would make sense for multiple injuries from one incident.
Or if a cyclist gets a car door there's a chance that the person in the car while catch an extremity to the face.
Last scenario I will offer: Tandem stunt riding. Out of the half pipe and into the crowd. Is it so unlikely? |
If those statistics all involved ONE car colliding with ONE bicycle, then, yes, they would indeed seem pretty odd. But just read what the article says.
| The Korea Times wrote: |
| [According to the Road Traffic Authority, Tuesday, Korea had 7,922 accidents involving bicycles in 2006, but the figure jumped to 10,848 last year, a 37 percent hike. Most of the accidents were collisions involving bikes and cars. |
It clearly refers to any accident involving a bicycle, which allows for a huge range of different possible scenarios. For example, a cyclist, or some motorist's lack of attention to a cyclist, causing a multiple pile up could easily result in a dozen or more injuries, when you factor in every passenger of every vehicle. Bear in mind too that the article does also show that the %age of those figures that were actual deaths is extremely low. So it obviously means any kind of injury at all.
"Most of the accidents" being bike/car collisions could mean anything from 50.1% to 99.9%. So there's a significant possibility that a still large minority involved a number of cars/other vehicles and just happened to also include a bike. And even if it were closer to the 99.9% that were simple car/bike collisions, when you're including any kind of injury, all it needs is a car very suddenly braking really hard as it hits a bike and you quite conceivably have 4 whiplash or other injuries in the car (particularly as hardly anyone wears seatbelts in the back here) plus the one (or very possibly two if they're high school kids!) on the bike.
Sometimes statistics are used irresponsibly and without the necessary background info. But, to be fair to this KT writer, that doesn't seem to be the case here. |
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nosmallplans
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: noksapyeong
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| Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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The question of bikes on roads or bikes on paths/sidewalks boils down to how you ride and how you view bikes.
If bicycles are, to you, a reasonable form of transportation just like a car or bus or train then ride on the street. It's faster.
If bicycles are, to you, a recreational toy to be used for quick exercise runs and loops around the park, then stay on the sidewalk. It's safer.
A properly trained cyclist, with a complete knowledge of the rules of the road, can safely and efficiently travel around on city streets. The problem is when you start mixing it up with people with little or no appreciation for the dangers of the road and the rules that keep people going in the same direction.
Sure there may be "more accidents" on Korean roads but I can tell you with complete certainty there is far less malicious driving. In a year of consistent city riding in Seoul I have encountered exactly ZERO intentional attempts at my life. No one has thrown trash at me, no one has attempt to merge into me, no one has tried to curb me, no one has braked in front of me or driven up behind me and honked.
If you ride your bike like a car and you people treat you like a car there are almost no problems to be had on the road. Keep up with traffic or stay to the right. Signal all your intentions. Don't use the lane unless the gutter is full of glass and always keep your lights on! |
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