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Theme
Joined: 06 Jun 2009 Location: Cedar Rapids Iowa
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Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 2:12 pm Post subject: In God We Trust |
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Has guided our country from it's beginning. But if the Atheists get their way, we won't be seeing this at the newest building Washington. Hey while they are at it, why don't they rename old red panties Hoover's building for us.
WASHINGTON � A California Republican congressman wants to do a little writing on the walls of Washington's newest federal building. If Rep. Dan Lungren gets his way, Congress will spend nearly $100,000 to engrave the words "In God We Trust " and the Pledge of Allegiance in prominent spots at the Capitol Visitor Center .
Lungren's proposal drew only a whimper of opposition last week when the House of Representatives voted 410-8 to approve it. Now, however, Lungren finds himself tussling with a national atheists and agnostics group.
The Wisconsin -based Freedom From Religion Foundation Inc. sued this week to stop the engraving, accusing Lungren of trying to force his religious beliefs on as many as 15 percent of all U.S. adults. That comprises "atheists, agnostics, skeptics and freethinkers, none of whom possess a belief in a god," according to the lawsuit.
"It really is a Judeo-Christian endorsement by our government, and so Lungren is wrong," said Dan Barker of Madison, Wis. , a co-president of the foundation. "Lungren and others are pro-religious, and they want to actually use the machinery of government to promote their particular private religious views. That is unconstitutional, and that's what we're asking the court to decide."
The Senate has approved a similar plan introduced by Republican Sen. Jim DeMint of South Carolina . The congressional directive orders the Capitol architect to make the changes in the design of the $621 million center, which opened last December.
The Freedom From Religion Foundation , which has 13,500 members, sued in U.S. District Court in Wisconsin . It alleges that Congress is trying to make belief in God synonymous with citizenship and "discouraging nonbelief" among Americans, a contention that Lungren rejects.
Lungren said that the phrase "In God We Trust " had a long history and was consistent with the beliefs of America's founding fathers. He also said that the Declaration of Independence referred to rights given by a creator.
Lungren, a former California attorney general, said that while the proposed engravings incorporated religious references, they didn't violate the Constitution.
"What we're doing is making a specific historical reference to the beginnings of this republic," he said. "To ignore this or to forbid this statement or something like it to appear is to distort history. . . . We're not trying to change history. We're trying to enshrine history in the Capitol Visitor Center ."
Barker said history was better left to others.
"It's not the job of our government and our government buildings to do that," he said. "Historians can point out that many of our founders were indeed religious. But saying 'In God We Trust' in the visitors center of the Capitol is not just some historical reference. It's actually government speaking for all of us Americans."
Barker said the foundation had been waiting for the right case to challenge "In God We Trust ." He said government actions could be challenged on state-church grounds if they had specific religious agendas. In this case, he said, backers of Lungren's plan have provided "the smoking guns" by giving specific, overt religious reasons for doing the engraving.
Barker said that atheists regarded the phrase "In God We Trust " as rude, uncivil and un-American.
"Tens of millions of really good Americans don't believe in God," he said. "In fact, there's many more nonbelievers than there are Jews, and we wouldn't think of offending Jews on our national monuments. . . . Why is it wrong to offend a Jewish minority but it's not wrong to offend those of us who serve in the military and sit on juries but we don't believe in God?"
He said no hearing had been set.
Lungren is confident that a federal judge will allow the engraving to proceed.
"I never thought I'd see the day when someone would sue to stop us putting in the United States Capitol a statement of the national motto and the Pledge of Allegiance," he said. "Suggesting that the Pledge of Allegiance and the national motto is un-American in some way � talk about turning ideas on their heads." |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 2:59 pm Post subject: Re: In God We Trust |
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Theme wrote: |
Has guided our country from it's beginning. |
Let's see some proof of this assertion. |
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Julius

Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 4:42 pm Post subject: Re: In God We Trust |
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CentralCali wrote: |
Theme wrote: |
Has guided our country from it's beginning. |
Let's see some proof of this assertion. |
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the phrase "In God We Trust " had a long history and was consistent with the beliefs of America's founding fathers. He also said that the Declaration of Independence referred to rights given by a creator. |
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Rteacher

Joined: 23 May 2005 Location: Western MA, USA
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Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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If they ever change the motto to "In Material Science We Trust" brace yourself for cataclysmic reactions ... |
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Fox

Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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I'm an American and I don't trust in God. As a man from Wisconsin myself, I'm proud of my fellows for standing up to help create a more secular atmosphere in our nation. |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 6:40 pm Post subject: Re: In God We Trust |
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Julius wrote: |
CentralCali wrote: |
Theme wrote: |
Has guided our country from it's beginning. |
Let's see some proof of this assertion. |
Quote: |
the phrase "In God We Trust " had a long history and was consistent with the beliefs of America's founding fathers. He also said that the Declaration of Independence referred to rights given by a creator. |
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In other words, "In God We Trust" hasn't guided our country from its beginning. |
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Julius

Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 6:41 am Post subject: Re: In God We Trust |
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Nov. 13., 1861
Dear Sir: You are about to submit your annual report to the Congress respecting the affairs of the national finances.
One fact touching our currency has hitherto been seriously overlooked. I mean the recognition of the Almighty God in some form on our coins.
...This would make a beautiful coin, to which no possible citizen could object. This would relieve us from the ignominy of heathenism. This would place us openly under the Divine protection we have personally claimed. From my hearth I have felt our national shame in disowning God as not the least of our present national disasters.
Rev. M.R. Watkinson. (to secretary of the National Treasury.)
_____________________________
Nov 20
Dear Sir: No nation can be strong except in the strength of God, or safe except in His defense. The trust of our people in God should be declared on our national coins.
You will cause a device to be prepared without unnecessary delay with a motto expressing in the fewest and tersest words possible this national recognition.
Secretary of the treasury, Salmon Chase, to James Pollock of the National Mint.
Nov 20
__________________________
http://www.treas.gov/education/fact-sheets/currency/in-god-we-trust.shtml |
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Manner of Speaking

Joined: 09 Jan 2003
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Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 7:42 am Post subject: |
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From my hearth I have felt our national shame in disowning God as not the least of our present national disasters. |
So indirectly he is saying that the founding fathers of the US excluded "God", and all he is doing is strongly objecting to an established fact. |
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Manner of Speaking

Joined: 09 Jan 2003
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Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 7:49 am Post subject: |
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And, you cherry-picked from that website:
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The motto IN GOD WE TRUST was placed on United States coins largely because of the increased religious sentiment existing during the Civil War. |
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What I propose is that instead of the goddess of liberty we shall have next inside the 13 stars a ring inscribed with the words PERPETUAL UNION; within the ring the allseeing eye, crowned with a halo; beneath this eye the American flag, bearing in its field stars equal to the number of the States united; in the folds of the bars the words GOD, LIBERTY, LAW.
This would make a beautiful coin, to which no possible citizen could object. This would relieve us from the ignominy of heathenism. This would place us openly under the Divine protection we have personally claimed. From my hearth I have felt our national shame in disowning God as not the least of our present national disasters. |
So basically we have a Secretary of the Treasury, writing 90 some years after the Declaration of Independence, seeking to overturn the "ignominy of heathenism" he himself acknowledges is part of the original U.S. Constitution, and seeking to impose his religious beliefs on all, including "heathens".
I think you just proved the Freedom From Religion Foundation's point.  |
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Julius

Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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Manner of Speaking wrote: |
seeking to overturn the "ignominy of heathenism" he himself acknowledges is part of the original U.S. Constitution,: |
Where does he state that heathenism was part of the original US constitution?
Don't put words in his mouth. |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 11:00 pm Post subject: Re: In God We Trust |
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Julius wrote: |
Nov. 13., 1861 |
Well, I'd heard that the teaching of History in American schools is a disgrace but didn't really believe it until now. Or perhaps it's your mathematical skills that are lacking? 1861 is most certainly not "from the beginning of the country." |
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Julius

Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 2:39 am Post subject: Re: In God We Trust |
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CentralCali wrote: |
Julius wrote: |
Nov. 13., 1861 |
Well, I'd heard that the teaching of History in American schools is a disgrace but didn't really believe it until now. Or perhaps it's your mathematical skills that are lacking? 1861 is most certainly not "from the beginning of the country." |
I think you're misunderstanding the original writer of the article.
he seems to be saying that trust in God ie Christianity is what has guided America 9or at least the majority of Americans from the beginning. I don't think you can deny this.
It was certainly true of the founding fathers..who did trust in God and were inspired by and instituted their christian values into the constitution.
So wether the majority of Americans are christian or not in times to come, they will still be blessed by Christian values indirectly via the constitution. Until they vote to change it.
If you think different, feel free to live in North korea, Saudi Arabia or Iran for a while. |
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Manner of Speaking

Joined: 09 Jan 2003
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Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 4:23 am Post subject: |
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Julius wrote: |
Manner of Speaking wrote: |
seeking to overturn the "ignominy of heathenism" he himself acknowledges is part of the original U.S. Constitution,: |
Where does he state that heathenism was part of the original US constitution?
Don't put words in his mouth. |
I don't. I just have to listen to what's coming out of his. |
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Manner of Speaking

Joined: 09 Jan 2003
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Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 4:25 am Post subject: Re: In God We Trust |
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Julius wrote: |
I think you're misunderstanding the original writer of the article.
he seems to be saying that trust in God ie Christianity is what has guided America 9or at least the majority of Americans from the beginning. I don't think you can deny this.
It was certainly true of the founding fathers..who did trust in God and were inspired by and instituted their christian values into the constitution.
So wether the majority of Americans are christian or not in times to come, they will still be blessed by Christian values indirectly via the constitution. Until they vote to change it.
If you think different, feel free to live in North korea, Saudi Arabia or Iran for a while. |
** softly waves a fan to dissipate the odor of bs **  |
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Julius

Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 4:50 am Post subject: Re: In God We Trust |
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Manner of Speaking wrote: |
** softly waves a fan to dissipate the odor of bs **  |
George washington
Farewell adress:
"reason and experience both forbid us to expect, that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle...It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and Bible.�
�What students would learn in American schools above all is the religion of Jesus Christ.� [speech to the Delaware Indian Chiefs May 12, 1779]
"To the distinguished character of patriot, it should be our highest glory to add the more distinguished character of Christian" [May 2, 1778, at Valley Forge]
Benjamin Franklin
� God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. I firmly believe this. I also believe that, without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel� .
Constitutional Convention of 1787, original manuscript of this speech.
John Adams�
The general principles upon which the Fathers achieved independence were the general principals of Christianity� I will avow that I believed and now believe that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.�
�[July 4th] ought to be commemorated as the day of deliverance by solemn acts of devotion to God Almighty.�
�John Adams in a letter written to Abigail, on the day the Declaration was approved by Congress
James Madison
� We�ve staked our future on our ability to follow the Ten Commandments with all of our heart.�
�We have staked the whole future of American civilization, not upon the power of government, far from it. We�ve staked the future of all our political institutions upon our capacity�to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God.�
[1778 to the General Assembly of the State of Virginia]
etc etc etc etc etc etc |
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