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What happens if my PS fires me?
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xCustomx



Joined: 06 Jan 2006

PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 1:57 am    Post subject: What happens if my PS fires me? Reply with quote

The crap hit the fan today at my PS in regards to my contract. I've got a sweet gig because I was able to negotiate the terms in my contract. I'm obligated to teach one week of summer camp and one week of winter camp each year. The rest of the time is considered vacation, except in February when the students come back for graduation. In 2010 I am supposed to come to work for 6 days.

I told my co-teacher that I'd like to work 6 days worth of OT this summer vacation period so that I can get 6 days of in February when the students return. She consulted with the VP, the office of education and the administration at our school. They all agreed that it would be OK. This way I can fly back home the first week of January, go home for almost two months, and then come back the last day of February to collect my pension.

Today my school said that my contract was invalid since it doesn't follow the typical PS guidelines. I explained that the principal signed off on the changes I made to the contract and that the contract is valid. They want me to make a new contract that adheres to the PS guidelines, but this would result in me losing about 7 weeks of vacation. I told them there is no way that I'm changing my contract just because they made a mistake and signed off on my amendments. I said that if the school doesn't honor the contract, then I'm going to just call in sick during the 6 days in February that I'm supposed to be there, and there is nothing they can do.

I already threatened to quit, but they don't want me to. I told them to make me an offer that will make me want to stay at the school. They came up with that crap about making a new contract so it adheres to the PS guidelines but takes away 7 weeks of vacation. I just started laughing and asked if it was a joke. I'm wondering, if they just decide to fire me in order to break the contract, what rights will I have?

I haven't done anything for them to fire me, and they have admitted that they made the mistake in signing off on the contract. Can employers in Korea fire someone without cause?
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yingwenlaoshi



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Location: ... location, location!

PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 2:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm so surprised.

Tell them that you're going to find out what the labor board has to say about it.
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xCustomx



Joined: 06 Jan 2006

PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 2:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yingwenlaoshi wrote:
I'm so surprised.

Tell them that you're going to find out what the labor board has to say about it.


I told them about the labor board and the schools knows that there will be some kind of ramification if they just fire me without cause. I haven't done anything wrong to this point, but once someone in admin found out that the contract doesn't follow the PS guidelines, they determined that the contract was invalid. I said you can't just sign a contract and then arbitrarily decide that it's invalid. Sorry, but you should have read the contract terms before you signed it.

I'm trying to find out what happens when a school fires you without cause? Are they obligated to pay your salary for the length of the contract or a pro-rated amount?
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pie eater



Joined: 07 Jul 2009
Location: The Bando

PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 2:34 am    Post subject: Re: What happens if my PS fires me? Reply with quote

xCustomx wrote:


I haven't done anything for them to fire me, and they have admitted that they made the mistake in signing off on the contract. Can employers in Korea fire someone without cause?


Are you seriously asking this question? Rolling Eyes How long have you lived and worked in Korea now?

Stop being a wimp - get some backbone and tell them in Korean that you are not putting up with their crap!

The school know they are dealing with a doughnut and thats why you are getting this static and crapulence - toughen up!
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xCustomx



Joined: 06 Jan 2006

PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 3:02 am    Post subject: Re: What happens if my PS fires me? Reply with quote

pie eater wrote:


Are you seriously asking this question? Rolling Eyes How long have you lived and worked in Korea now?

Stop being a wimp - get some backbone and tell them in Korean that you are not putting up with their crap!

The school know they are dealing with a doughnut and thats why you are getting this static and crapulence - toughen up!



How am I being a wimp? I told them there is NO WAY that I'm going to change my contract for their benefit. I told them that I have all the power in this situation since they need my approval in order to cancel the current contract with all the benefits. I told them to shove their "offer" up their ___ and to get back to me once they've come up with a serious proposal. I also threatened to take them to the labor board if they fire me without cause.
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teachergirltoo



Joined: 28 Oct 2006

PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 3:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have an amended contract also, as I am sure several of us that have been here a while do. I would see things the same as you, but would make that call to the Labour Board to give me backup.
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Xuanzang



Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Location: Sadang

PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 3:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

xCustomx wrote:

I told them about the labor board and the schools knows that there will be some kind of ramification if they just fire me without cause. I haven't done anything wrong to this point, but once someone in admin found out that the contract doesn't follow the PS guidelines, they determined that the contract was invalid. I said you can't just sign a contract and then arbitrarily decide that it's invalid. Sorry, but you should have read the contract terms before you signed it.

I'm trying to find out what happens when a school fires you without cause? Are they obligated to pay your salary for the length of the contract or a pro-rated amount?


They`d probably make up some BS on you and give you NOTHING. You should know contracts here in Korea are little better than toliet paper. That being said, it never hurts to try the Labour Board and the Anti-corruption and Human Rights Commission.
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D.D.



Joined: 29 May 2008

PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 4:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As the aussies would say you were on a good wicket. You screwed it up by pushing for more by trying to get those 6 days changed around.
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xCustomx



Joined: 06 Jan 2006

PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 5:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

D.D. wrote:
As the aussies would say you were on a good wicket. You screwed it up by pushing for more by trying to get those 6 days changed around.


Did I really push for more? I've had the same contract for the last two years and have offered to teach an extra week of English camp if I could get those 6 days off. Technically I'm supposed to be there for 6 days, but I don't have any classes during that period, so in my opinion, I'm actually doing the school a favor and offering to teach classes that I normally wouldn't have to.
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polonius



Joined: 05 Jun 2004

PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 5:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most contracts have a clause that states that either party can terminate the contract by providing 30-60 days notice. There need be no grounds for the termination. If they don't have any reason, they can simply implement it.

I would stay relatively strong on your original contract. Try to find a middle ground, as they obviously don't like the idea of the contract that was originally signed, and they do have a way out of it. If you like you gig, try to get as much as possible, but be prepared to get less than you were originally offered.

I am sure you know this, but be polite, yet firm. Good luck to you, let us know how it turns out.
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Hanson



Joined: 20 Oct 2004

PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 5:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

D.D. wrote:
As the aussies would say you were on a good wicket. You screwed it up by pushing for more by trying to get those 6 days changed around.


+1

A bird in the hand, and all that...

I remember a guy I worked with a few years back who got caught trying to upgrade his salary by submitting a fake Master's degree. Once the fake Master's was discovered, his fake B.A. was also discovered. Had he not pushed for more with the M.A., the fake B.A. would never have come up.

Last I heard, he was working as a recruiter. Surprised
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Ramen



Joined: 15 Apr 2008

PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just say "OK" to everything they say.

If they give you the new contract to sign, tell them that you need some time to look it over. Keep the new contract and don't sign it, just hold on to it. If they ask about it later, tell them you didn't have chance to compeletely review it and need more time. Just drag it on and on until hell freezes over.
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PamPhi



Joined: 28 Jun 2009

PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 4:32 pm    Post subject: Re: What happens if my PS fires me? Reply with quote

xCustomx wrote:
The crap hit the fan today at my PS in regards to my contract. I've got a sweet gig because I was able to negotiate the terms in my contract. I'm obligated to teach one week of summer camp and one week of winter camp each year. The rest of the time is considered vacation, except in February when the students come back for graduation. In 2010 I am supposed to come to work for 6 days.

I told my co-teacher that I'd like to work 6 days worth of OT this summer vacation period so that I can get 6 days of in February when the students return. She consulted with the VP, the office of education and the administration at our school. They all agreed that it would be OK. This way I can fly back home the first week of January, go home for almost two months, and then come back the last day of February to collect my pension.

Today my school said that my contract was invalid since it doesn't follow the typical PS guidelines. I explained that the principal signed off on the changes I made to the contract and that the contract is valid. They want me to make a new contract that adheres to the PS guidelines, but this would result in me losing about 7 weeks of vacation. I told them there is no way that I'm changing my contract just because they made a mistake and signed off on my amendments. I said that if the school doesn't honor the contract, then I'm going to just call in sick during the 6 days in February that I'm supposed to be there, and there is nothing they can do.

I already threatened to quit, but they don't want me to. I told them to make me an offer that will make me want to stay at the school. They came up with that crap about making a new contract so it adheres to the PS guidelines but takes away 7 weeks of vacation. I just started laughing and asked if it was a joke. I'm wondering, if they just decide to fire me in order to break the contract, what rights will I have?

I haven't done anything for them to fire me, and they have admitted that they made the mistake in signing off on the contract. Can employers in Korea fire someone without cause?


It never surprises me that a teacher can be unreasonable and think they are getting screwed.

Yes your principal was clearly an idiot for signing off on it, but what are they talking cutting it down by? How much were you pressuring them to sign the original contract? Did you hint or suggest that youd have no desire to re sign if you didn't get it.

You have to twach TWO TOTAL weeks of camp AND you get 2 months to go home, and you think that them tryng to correct this obvious mistake is unreasonable?

Have you not heard of the word compromise? They screwd up now you are holding this screw up over their heads because some idiot signed off on it? Was it clear that he understood what he was agreeing to?

I mean Yes you do technically have the contract and you can hold them to it, but man get over yourself a bit too.

Oh and you say they can't do anything if you just call in sick for those 6 days, I beg to differ, they can FIRE you for cause. Unless they took that clause out of the contract you signed, AND they can force you to pay back the flight home. UNLESS: those 6 days of overtime swapping for the 6 days in FEbruary are written INTO your contract, you do not have a leg to stand on if they want to play hardball.

Show them you are reasonable, cause at the moment you are clearly not being flexible at all.
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Epicurus



Joined: 18 Jun 2009

PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

several thoughts:

though I understand why you wanted a signed document to give you the vacation your school didn't mind giving you, I would have approached the issue differently. I'd simply rely on the "understanding" I had with my principal, (as you seem to have).

I'm shocked that as widely circulated as your request though, some a-hole somewhere, especially at the POE didn't put a veto thru the contract right away.

what also surprises me is that since your principal and assumedly the VP are ok with your vacations, why and how someone at the school would raise a red flag and upset the applecart, possibly risking loss of face for your Principal and VP. I somehow doubt it's someone at the school , but one never knows.

now that the proverbial cat is out of the bag, I would reconsider revisiting my first suggestion. These things are always best done on the down low, so have a chat with the principal about my original suggestion.

btw - who at the school is telling you now it can't be, considering the principal signed off on it in the first place?
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Ramen



Joined: 15 Apr 2008

PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 4:36 pm    Post subject: Re: What happens if my PS fires me? Reply with quote

PamPhi wrote:
xCustomx wrote:
The crap hit the fan today at my PS in regards to my contract. I've got a sweet gig because I was able to negotiate the terms in my contract. I'm obligated to teach one week of summer camp and one week of winter camp each year. The rest of the time is considered vacation, except in February when the students come back for graduation. In 2010 I am supposed to come to work for 6 days.

I told my co-teacher that I'd like to work 6 days worth of OT this summer vacation period so that I can get 6 days of in February when the students return. She consulted with the VP, the office of education and the administration at our school. They all agreed that it would be OK. This way I can fly back home the first week of January, go home for almost two months, and then come back the last day of February to collect my pension.

Today my school said that my contract was invalid since it doesn't follow the typical PS guidelines. I explained that the principal signed off on the changes I made to the contract and that the contract is valid. They want me to make a new contract that adheres to the PS guidelines, but this would result in me losing about 7 weeks of vacation. I told them there is no way that I'm changing my contract just because they made a mistake and signed off on my amendments. I said that if the school doesn't honor the contract, then I'm going to just call in sick during the 6 days in February that I'm supposed to be there, and there is nothing they can do.

I already threatened to quit, but they don't want me to. I told them to make me an offer that will make me want to stay at the school. They came up with that crap about making a new contract so it adheres to the PS guidelines but takes away 7 weeks of vacation. I just started laughing and asked if it was a joke. I'm wondering, if they just decide to fire me in order to break the contract, what rights will I have?

I haven't done anything for them to fire me, and they have admitted that they made the mistake in signing off on the contract. Can employers in Korea fire someone without cause?


It never surprises me that a teacher can be unreasonable and think they are getting screwed.

Yes your principal was clearly an idiot for signing off on it, but what are they talking cutting it down by? How much were you pressuring them to sign the original contract? Did you hint or suggest that youd have no desire to re sign if you didn't get it.

You have to twach TWO TOTAL weeks of camp AND you get 2 months to go home, and you think that them tryng to correct this obvious mistake is unreasonable?

Have you not heard of the word compromise? They screwd up now you are holding this screw up over their heads because some idiot signed off on it? Was it clear that he understood what he was agreeing to?

I mean Yes you do technically have the contract and you can hold them to it, but man get over yourself a bit too.

Oh and you say they can't do anything if you just call in sick for those 6 days, I beg to differ, they can FIRE you for cause. Unless they took that clause out of the contract you signed, AND they can force you to pay back the flight home. UNLESS: those 6 days of overtime swapping for the 6 days in FEbruary are written INTO your contract, you do not have a leg to stand on if they want to play hardball.

Show them you are reasonable, cause at the moment you are clearly not being flexible at all.


Laughing Laughing You're making me chuckle. You gotta teach the Koreans that a contract is a contract, but not just pieces of paper.


Last edited by Ramen on Wed Jul 15, 2009 4:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
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