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I want to Like Korea
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Keepongoing



Joined: 13 Feb 2003
Location: Korea

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 4:14 pm    Post subject: I want to Like Korea Reply with quote

I want and try to like Korea. I am a fairly positive person, but not an apologist. I have lived all over Asia and have been in Asia for 24 years now.
That being said, once in awhile things take me back. Recently, I was on holiday in Thailand and they had a KBS World channel and the cable in my hotel. Chit=chat with beautiful women was on and was sub-titled. Out of curiosity I watched ir. The commentator asked a series of loaded questions:

What do you think of foreigners who do not learn Korean?

Tell is about some embarrassing things you have seen foreigners do?

Each question was to find demeaning examples of foreigners, especially foreign men.

These girls proceeded to give their examples and opinions, all of which painted foreigners in Korea in a very negative light.

They also took every opportunity to speak of how sparkling Korea is. many had Korean boyfriends.

I have never heard of a country that had a show whose obvious intention is to demean the foreigners in their country.

How can Korea be serious about improving their image abroad when they send the message that this show sends?

I can't imagine this type of show being aired in any Western country, it would be banned.

The apparent fact that it is aired shows how out of touch the media is with the rest of the civilized world.

Sure, there are foreigners who do bad things. People do bad things. Even Koreans do bad things. Unfortunately, shows like this seem to paint all foreigners (especially men) with the same brush.

Personally, I do not like these girls!
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redaxe



Joined: 01 Dec 2008

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a one-word explanation for just about all the weird behavior that Koreans display toward foreigners: jealousy.

Also, there was another thread about this particular show recently. One standout comment:

"There's a reason why it's called 'Chatting with the Beauties', not 'Chatting with the Smarties'" Laughing
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DWAEJIMORIGUKBAP



Joined: 28 May 2009
Location: Electron cloud

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is one way to like Korea that I have found -

Make as much money as I can here and live in my own bubble with my non Korean friends and ignore most Koreans I come into contact with either in person or by extension through their media etc.

I like the country, just not really the way most of the people act nor their culture...
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crossmr



Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Location: Hwayangdong, Seoul

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The people who want to like Korea need to do one thing. Get over themselves. It is a hard truth and there is going to be a lot of whining and flaming over that, but I notice a marked difference between those who like Korea and those who don't. Not to say there aren't exceptions, but it doesn't take much of following what people say to see what kind of frame of mind they're in.

"Sure, there are foreigners who do bad things. People do bad things. Even Koreans do bad things. Unfortunately, shows like this seem to paint all foreigners (especially men) with the same brush. "

"Sure, there are Koreans who do bad things. People do bad things. Even Foreigners do bad things. Unfortunately, posters like this seem to paint all Koreans (especially men) with the same brush."

Just because some idiot TV host said something or some girls getting paid a ton of money to talk trash played along with it, isn't representative of the whole country. If you want to take a show as representative of a whole country, I watched a great interview with Orly Taitz yesterday..

there is absolute garbage on TV in most countries. There are jerks in every country.
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waynehead



Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Location: Jongno

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It irritates me too, sometimes, but the previous poster is correct. What if immigrants/foreigners living in my home country (the US) judged the entire nation by what they see on TV? Glenn Beck, Dancing with the Stars, etc etc? Actually many probably do, but they're just as wrong as we are over here.

It can be difficult to maintain perspective but generally speaking TV shows are not the best way to understand what's going on in the real world, and should be avoided as much as possible.
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DWAEJIMORIGUKBAP



Joined: 28 May 2009
Location: Electron cloud

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

waynehead wrote:
It irritates me too, sometimes, but the previous poster is correct. What if immigrants/foreigners living in my home country (the US) judged the entire nation by what they see on TV? Glenn Beck, Dancing with the Stars, etc etc? Actually many probably do, but they're just as wrong as we are over here.

It can be difficult to maintain perspective but generally speaking TV shows are not the best way to understand what's going on in the real world, and should be avoided as much as possible.


True but the fact is that the way the hosts of this showin question want to percieve foriegners and how they want foriegners to percieve themselves - IS ACTUALLY A TRUE REFLECTION OF THE KOREAN ESTABLISHMENT!
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crossmr



Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Location: Hwayangdong, Seoul

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DWAEJIMORIGUKBAP wrote:

True but the fact is that the way the hosts of this showin question want to percieve foriegners and how they want foriegners to percieve themselves - IS ACTUALLY A TRUE REFLECTION OF THE KOREAN ESTABLISHMENT!


I'll happily buy you a plane ticket out so long as you do something before you leave that ensures you're blacklisted and unable to ever return if its that much trouble for you.
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DWAEJIMORIGUKBAP



Joined: 28 May 2009
Location: Electron cloud

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crossmr wrote:
DWAEJIMORIGUKBAP wrote:

True but the fact is that the way the hosts of this showin question want to percieve foriegners and how they want foriegners to percieve themselves - IS ACTUALLY A TRUE REFLECTION OF THE KOREAN ESTABLISHMENT!


I'll happily buy you a plane ticket out so long as you do something before you leave that ensures you're blacklisted and unable to ever return if its that much trouble for you.


No, I like living here. As I mentione din my forst post of this threead I've found ways of making my life enjoyable. How and why are my perogative.

Doesn't mean that like you I'm willingly blind to certain nasty realities of the country in the name of 'cultural tolerance / relativity' or whatever pc nonsense it is you use to convince yourself you're a good person...

Need I really end this with the obvious 'I'm also critical about certain aspects of my own country' to prove to the narrow minded that I'm not narrow minded... yawn.
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redaxe



Joined: 01 Dec 2008

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crossmr wrote:

there is absolute garbage on TV in most countries. There are jerks in every country.


Yes, of course, but the point is that the jerks and garbage on TV in THIS country are openly and unabashedly hostile toward foreigners.

Man, Koreans in Korea even discriminate against the fully ethnically Korean and fluently-Korean-speaking people who move here from China. There is no denying that this country has an EXTREMELY xenophobic culture. To do so would be willfully ignorant. (Fortunately though, that culture is gradually changing.)

But if just shrugging it off and ignoring it helps you adjust to your own life in Korea, then more power to you. If that's the case, I'm not quite sure why you feel the need to come to Dave's and tell the whiners to buck up, though.
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skeeterses



Joined: 25 Oct 2007

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 6:09 pm    Post subject: Re: I want to Like Korea Reply with quote

Keepongoing wrote:
I want and try to like Korea. I am a fairly positive person, but not an apologist. I have lived all over Asia and have been in Asia for 24 years now.
That being said, once in awhile things take me back. Recently, I was on holiday in Thailand and they had a KBS World channel and the cable in my hotel. Chit=chat with beautiful women was on and was sub-titled. Out of curiosity I watched ir. The commentator asked a series of loaded questions:

What do you think of foreigners who do not learn Korean?

Tell is about some embarrassing things you have seen foreigners do?

Each question was to find demeaning examples of foreigners, especially foreign men.

These girls proceeded to give their examples and opinions, all of which painted foreigners in Korea in a very negative light.

They also took every opportunity to speak of how sparkling Korea is. many had Korean boyfriends.

I have never heard of a country that had a show whose obvious intention is to demean the foreigners in their country.

How can Korea be serious about improving their image abroad when they send the message that this show sends?

I can't imagine this type of show being aired in any Western country, it would be banned.

The apparent fact that it is aired shows how out of touch the media is with the rest of the civilized world.

Sure, there are foreigners who do bad things. People do bad things. Even Koreans do bad things. Unfortunately, shows like this seem to paint all foreigners (especially men) with the same brush.

Personally, I do not like these girls!

I say don't watch the TV, really. If you're serious about using TV to learn Korean, watch Pororo or Jangu. Since its summer, you might want to hit the beaches and check out the Korean girls in their swimsuits. That'll lighten you up some man.
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crossmr



Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Location: Hwayangdong, Seoul

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DWAEJIMORIGUKBAP wrote:


No, I like living here. As I mentione din my forst post of this threead I've found ways of making my life enjoyable. How and why are my perogative.

Doesn't mean that like you I'm willingly blind to certain nasty realities of the country in the name of 'cultural tolerance / relativity' or whatever pc nonsense it is you use to convince yourself you're a good person...

Need I really end this with the obvious 'I'm also critical about certain aspects of my own country' to prove to the narrow minded that I'm not narrow minded... yawn.


I'm not blind to anything. It is called acceptance. I accept Korea for what it is and that is why I'm here and why I enjoy living here. I don't have any delusions that this is Little Canada or Little America or that Koreans should behave as anything other than Korean and I don't feel the need to fault them for that on a daily basis. Are there different rules for citizens and foreigners? You bet. It is their country after all. Why should everything be exactly the same for transient workers, tourists, foreign students, etc.

But you know what. Some of those things are the same and some are different. Do I agree with everything in Korean culture? No of course not. But am I going to get worked up about something I don't have a hope in hell of ever changing? No. But I've never had a me against them philosophy.
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DWAEJIMORIGUKBAP



Joined: 28 May 2009
Location: Electron cloud

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crossmr wrote:
DWAEJIMORIGUKBAP wrote:


No, I like living here. As I mentione din my forst post of this threead I've found ways of making my life enjoyable. How and why are my perogative.

Doesn't mean that like you I'm willingly blind to certain nasty realities of the country in the name of 'cultural tolerance / relativity' or whatever pc nonsense it is you use to convince yourself you're a good person...

Need I really end this with the obvious 'I'm also critical about certain aspects of my own country' to prove to the narrow minded that I'm not narrow minded... yawn.


I'm not blind to anything. It is called acceptance. I accept Korea for what it is and that is why I'm here and why I enjoy living here. I don't have any delusions that this is Little Canada or Little America or that Koreans should behave as anything other than Korean and I don't feel the need to fault them for that on a daily basis. Are there different rules for citizens and foreigners? You bet. It is their country after all. Why should everything be exactly the same for transient workers, tourists, foreign students, etc.

But you know what. Some of those things are the same and some are different. Do I agree with everything in Korean culture? No of course not. But am I going to get worked up about something I don't have a hope in hell of ever changing? No. But I've never had a me against them philosophy.


No, no point getting worked up about xenaphobia and racism being directed towrds you at all! Why this is Korea and it is their culture, so it's fine!

Acceptance. ha ha ha ha ha.

I'll not reply to you any more as you're either one of those apologist trolls trying to get rational people like myself worked up or you're just not very bright.
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crossmr



Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Location: Hwayangdong, Seoul

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
apologist trolls

Ah the last vestige of someone who can't make their point. Just call them an apologist and wash your hands of it. You're right, someone here isn't very bright.

Quote:

Yes, of course, but the point is that the jerks and garbage on TV in THIS country are openly and unabashedly hostile toward foreigners.

Man, Koreans in Korea even discriminate against the fully ethnically Korean and fluently-Korean-speaking people who move here from China. There is no denying that this country has an EXTREMELY xenophobic culture. To do so would be willfully ignorant. (Fortunately though, that culture is gradually changing.)

But if just shrugging it off and ignoring it helps you adjust to your own life in Korea, then more power to you. If that's the case, I'm not quite sure why you feel the need to come to Dave's and tell the whiners to buck up, though.

The point is not all of them are nor are all the people. I've never been attacked or yelled at. In a service industry related situation I've never found myself to be treated any less politely than koreans and in fact often more politely. The quality of service I've received here has exceeded that of back in Canada by several degrees. The only people who stare at me are toddlers.

I've had elderly korean women who are getting off the train come up to me and tell me to take their seats (the special ones..but I'm not remotely that old). I've had toothless old men randomly tell me about the korean war and welcome me here. I've had lots of restaurant owners giving me freebies and priority seating because I'm a regular, etc. People even sit with me on the bus/train.

Apparently I've been very lucky in Korea. I've met the occasional business guy who rants about the chinese, but that is it.
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DWAEJIMORIGUKBAP



Joined: 28 May 2009
Location: Electron cloud

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crossmr wrote:
Quote:
apologist trolls

Ah the last vestige of someone who can't make their point. Just call them an apologist and wash your hands of it. You're right, someone here isn't very bright.

Quote:

Yes, of course, but the point is that the jerks and garbage on TV in THIS country are openly and unabashedly hostile toward foreigners.

Man, Koreans in Korea even discriminate against the fully ethnically Korean and fluently-Korean-speaking people who move here from China. There is no denying that this country has an EXTREMELY xenophobic culture. To do so would be willfully ignorant. (Fortunately though, that culture is gradually changing.)

But if just shrugging it off and ignoring it helps you adjust to your own life in Korea, then more power to you. If that's the case, I'm not quite sure why you feel the need to come to Dave's and tell the whiners to buck up, though.

The point is not all of them are nor are all the people. I've never been attacked or yelled at. In a service industry related situation I've never found myself to be treated any less politely than koreans and in fact often more politely. The quality of service I've received here has exceeded that of back in Canada by several degrees. The only people who stare at me are toddlers.

I've had elderly korean women who are getting off the train come up to me and tell me to take their seats (the special ones..but I'm not remotely that old). I've had toothless old men randomly tell me about the korean war and welcome me here. I've had lots of restaurant owners giving me freebies and priority seating because I'm a regular, etc. People even sit with me on the bus/train.

Apparently I've been very lucky in Korea. I've met the occasional business guy who rants about the chinese, but that is it.


You are. I've had all the things that haven't happen to you happen to myself and most of my friends and worse. Things that have quite frankly disgusted me. We've all been here 5 years plus by the way and thought like you did in the first year and then TRIED to keep thinking like you do in the 2nd year and then woke up to certain realities after that and we also learned that you can live somewhere and be tolerant, a good citizen etc even without accepting those things you don't like about the country. Wow what a revelation!
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crossmr



Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Location: Hwayangdong, Seoul

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DWAEJIMORIGUKBAP wrote:


You are. I've had all the things that haven't happen to you happen to myself and most of my friends and worse. Things that have quite frankly disgusted me. We've all been here 5 years plus by the way and thought like you did in the first year and then TRIED to keep thinking like you do in the 2nd year and then woke up to certain realities after that and we also learned that you can live somewhere and be tolerant, a good citizen etc even without accepting those things you don't like about the country. Wow what a revelation!


Acceptance doesn't mean I agree with it. It means I accept that that is the way Korea is and there is nothing I can do to change it, so why get worked up over it? I've been here much longer than my join date and I don't have to "try" to think like anything. Frankly Korea is a good fit for some and not a good fit for others. If it isn't a fit for someone there isn't any point in ranting and trying to shape something you can't shape.

"a good citizen" see here is part of your problem. I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that you are in fact not a citizen. If you've been here 5 years there is a decent chance you might be a permanent resident, but you are not a citizen. One thing that colors our reactions and feelings is our expectations. If you expect yourself to be treated like a citizen when you are not one is going to lead to all kinds of bitterness.
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