Korean Job Discussion Forums

iggyb · Joined: 29 Oct 2003

In preparation for finding an adult hakwon to work for, I wanted to try to draw up a possible substitution clause that would more strictly define the agreed upon working hours.

I didn't mind split-shift much when I taught in Korea before, but they were hell when a school would add a class or two in the middle of the big break between shifts -- thus basically forcing me to work or be at the school all day and night.

In the clause below, the 6-10 shifts are just examples taken from contracts I've seen and what my working hours were like at times in the past.

I'm interested in hearing what veterans have to say about the chance an adult hakwon would go for this. (I am also thinking that since split shifts are so universally despised by the veterans at Dave's, an institute might be tickled pink to find someone who is willing to work them that isn't fresh off the boat...)

Forbidden-Donut · Joined: 17 Jul 2007

If you don't want a class in the middle of your break, then you have to word your contract to explicity say that. Period. No middle ground, no maybes.
What you wrote there is a "oh, maybe I can teach it", which is giving your employer all he/she needs to add the class and make you do it.

iggyb · Joined: 29 Oct 2003

I understand where you're coming from. I can easily picture that based on previous experience, but the clause as written says I have to agree to any change.

If a boss is willing to ram a change in schedule down my throat despite my saying, "No way" -- then I'm not sure how well a clause saying "The employee will not work any classes between 11 AM to 5 PM" would prevent them from trying to ram the same schedule change down my throat...

I really can't see an owner willing to bully me being extra deterred by this 2nd clause.

So I don't see that the first clause is weaker than the 2nd, because the first says I have to agree to it beforehand, and if I didn't, per the contract, I should still be covered.

efemmera · Joined: 28 Jul 2009

No offence iggyb but when you are posting to receive an opinion and someone is generous enough with their time to provide their feedback, common courtesy suggests you would thank them for their input rather than challenge them on their opinion.

iggyb · Joined: 29 Oct 2003

Man, you're touchy...

The point of a thread like this is to chew over ideas from veterans of the industry. It's about getting feedback from multiple sources to work out the best clause --- with "work out" being the key phrase.

The guy read my first effort and stated an opinion. I explained why I wasn't sure about it. He can come back trying to convince me. Hopefully, others will chime in with their version and/or agree with others on which is best.

--- It's basically a group discussion. The value is in kicking around ideas.

How do you expect group discussions to work? Each person gives an opinion and then nobody comments on each other's point of view --- because doing so is insulting???

PRagic · Joined: 24 Feb 2006

OP, you've already worked in Korea. Why would you agree to work anywwhere that insists on split shifts?

A hakwon's wet dream.

halfmanhalfbiscuit · Joined: 13 Oct 2007 Location: Seoul

iggyb · Joined: 29 Oct 2003

I want to teach adults and I want to be in Seoul or the suburbs. That narrows the field down considerably. I missed the season for landing university jobs. I've sent resumes and cover pages to all the big hakwon chains that offer adults only, and have had little to no contact from them..
...so, if I want to teach adults and in my preferred area, I can't be to picky this year.....and like I said....split shifts didn't bother me that much if the block of free time was uninterrupted...

I am going to see what difference being in Korea does for me. I head out the 7th...

Ruthdes · Joined: 16 Oct 2008 Location: Seoul

I work for an adult institute that actually has that written into the contract already. If you'd like more information about the specific school you can PM me. The hours are a little different to what you described, but the general idea is the same. Unfortunately, we also work every second Saturday, but our holidays are much more generous than any other hagwon teacher I've ever met, and they're flexible. I'm in my second year and am planning on staying with my school at least until the 2.5 year mark.

As for you inserting your own clause, I guess it depends how desperate they are for a teacher.

Oh yeah, and I agree with halfmanhalfbiscuit about the overselling. This happens routinely (though maybe not as brazenly as inflating an MA to an MBA at my school!). Ever work in an office? You're an expert on business English!

Fat_Elvis · Joined: 17 Aug 2006 Location: In the ghetto

I seriously doubt that an adult hagwon will allow you to start adding clauses to their contract. All those terms are there for a reason. And besides, they'll just ignore anything in the contract they don't really like anyway.

hagwonnewbie · Joined: 09 Feb 2007 Location: Asia

Most adult hagwons require splits. At least the break is long enough to go home and sleep several hours. If they want 11-5, offer to do it for hefty overtime 25,000+/hour

Kimchieluver · Joined: 02 Mar 2005

Chambertin · Joined: 07 Jun 2009 Location: Gunsan

"Hi, take the class or leave.
Thats in your contract. We both agree or you fail."

Its obvious you want someone to agree with you that it wont happen, and this is just a worry for no reason.
That could be the case but if you are willing to risk it then you dont need anyone to agree with your fantasy, just nike it.

iggyb · Joined: 29 Oct 2003

PRagic · Joined: 24 Feb 2006

---------sigh-------------

And here the 'veterans' thought they'd be able to let you know in advance that the majority of hakwon teachers can pretty much wipe their arses with their contracts.

How many foreign teachers have we met or heard about who get anal over the contract only to find out that a contract is just a starting point here. You get cudos for flexibility and for knowing your place in the organization, especially vis-a-vis your hakwon's owner or manager.

"But THAT'S NOT RIGHT!" Well, from where we're from, no, it's not. But this isn't where we're from. You will find some places that have a grip on contractual obligations in the western sense, but most owners and managers will still fall back on their culturally ingrained interpretation of work-related responsiblities, especially if it gives them more power over you and allows them to make more money off of you.

So go ahead and put your little clause in the contract. I'll side with the previous poster based on almost 20 years of experience here.