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n00b questions from a 26-year-old guy with no cert or MA
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squidbrand



Joined: 14 Aug 2009
Location: Chicago

PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:58 am    Post subject: n00b questions from a 26-year-old guy with no cert or MA Reply with quote

I'm considering applying to go teach in Korea for the early 2010 season. I've spent the past several days combing these forums, but I did notice that many of the sticky FAQ threads are now about six years old, so I wanted to see how the conventional wisdom has changed since then and whether my expectations/wants are accurate. I'll bulletpoint it for the enjoyment of future generations.

�I understand that getting a job in Korea used to be a sure thing back in the '90s, got tougher as the rise of the internet kind of "blew the cover" of the whole operation, and is now as tough as ever due to the global financial crisis; but how tough is it, really? Is it as tough as something like JET in Japan, which has a sub-10% acceptance rate by some estimations? Or is it just that now there is some chance you will be denied, as opposed to virtually no chance?

�I am a 26-year-old white guy with a BA and without long hair or tattoos. I'm generally well-spoken with a plain-jane American heartland (non-)accent. I have been working in schools for the past five years � not as a teacher, but still in direct communication with students all the time. I have a decently tuned speaking voice due to hosting a podcast, and my writing is good enough for me to moonlight as a copywriter. However, my degree has nothing to do with language, I have no ESL certification, and obviously I don't have an MA in linguistics. Do inexperienced-but-competent people like me still get hired en masse for the entry-level public school jobs in 2009?

�What are some cities in SoKo that could be considered a good compromise between liveliness and air quality? I was thinking Busan. Am I mistaken?

�I have a few friends whose backgrounds are similar to mine and who are interested in doing this as well. Is there any chance in hell that we could all get accepted, and all get placed in the same metro area? (Doesn't have to be the same district.) Have any of you tried to make this happen amongst your friends?

�EPIK's website seems to claim that everyone (at least at the entry level) is placed in a team-teaching environment with a Korean teacher, and single occupancy housing is now guaranteed. Are those dirty lies?

�Are there any areas of South Korea that are very rainy through the year, on the level of Seattle, WA or Bergen, Norway or something?

I'll leave it at that for now. Be nice to me, eh?
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andrewchon



Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Location: Back in Oz. Living in ISIS Aust.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you are not picky, then there are jobs a plenty. What you need is willingness to gain the hard yards. I traveled around Korea, I found clean air only in Kangwondo, above 400m elevation and NK border areas in Gyunggido. If you want liveness around there, Chuncheun maybe the only candidate. As for your friends, you can always try, how many are you talking about? In public schools you'll always get a co-teacher attached to you. Level of co-teaching varies from non to very little. You should get your own room. Rainiest part of SK is Jeju island and is nowhere near the wetness of Seattle. It's a monsoon climate.
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squidbrand



Joined: 14 Aug 2009
Location: Chicago

PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It would most likely be 1-3 friends.

I should qualify the "air quality" thing by mentioning that I'm from Chicago and I think the air here is fine, so I'm not looking for something that smells like the British Columbian countryside or something. I just don't think I'd be able to brave the smog of Seoul.
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andrewchon



Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Location: Back in Oz. Living in ISIS Aust.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't been to Chicago, I've been to Seoul. Air in Korea is smoggy but not enough to overly alarm anyone except chronically sickly. 3 people are do-able, if you are not picky.
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pie eater



Joined: 07 Jul 2009
Location: The Bando

PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 1:47 pm    Post subject: Re: n00b questions from a 26-year-old guy with no cert or MA Reply with quote

squidbrand wrote:

�I am a 26-year-old white guy with a BA and without long hair or tattoos. I'm generally well-spoken with a plain-jane American heartland (non-)accent.


Hey - you are overqualified to every Korean employer there is! If you have a bodyfat percentage of under 12% and have a toothy smile, you have got a job for life! Well done! Rolling Eyes

PS: Have you got blond hair? If you have NATURAL blond hair, I reckon you could negotiate an extra 100,000 won a month in the old paypacket eh? Wink


Last edited by pie eater on Tue Aug 18, 2009 2:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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E_athlete



Joined: 09 Jun 2009
Location: Korea sparkling

PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All those Aikaiwa's like JET, AEON and all the other ones take way too long you have to prepare like 6 months in advance, not to mention their standards are way too ridiculous now. I couldn't get in with an interview with Japanese fluency and a bachelors degree.

I went from being unemployed to being in Korea with a job in 1 month. My advice is not to be picky, and go for mid sized cities outside Seoul. If you think you'll get lonely opt for Seoul, at least you'll have foreigners to talk to. Avoid hagwons and try getting a public school job. I'm with EPIK and I'm satisfied with my working conditions, it's certainly not the hagwon hell I hear about on Dave's. Good luck.
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squidbrand



Joined: 14 Aug 2009
Location: Chicago

PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't mean to imply that being a no-frills whitey is all it takes. I just know that it... doesn't hurt my chances.

Do you recommend midsize cities because they're much easier to get placed in, or is it just a personal preference? I know that in Japan your chances of getting placed in Tokyo or Osaka aren't too great, but Japan is not Korea.

Speaking of cities, does your advice about destinations still make sense if I pretend that you wrote Busan instead of Seoul? (I've developed this idea that I'd like the southeast a whole lot, though it's only based on pretty flimsy web research. However, I have been to Seoul and it didn't really blow my skirt up. I'd have liked it more if it were a bit smaller, smelled nicer, and had beaches; that's Busan, right?
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DCJames



Joined: 27 Jul 2006

PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 3:01 pm    Post subject: Re: n00b questions from a 26-year-old guy with no cert or MA Reply with quote

squidbrand wrote:
I'm considering applying to go teach in Korea for the early 2010 season.


OMG, You're considering coming here????!!!! Whooopdeeedooo!!!

You and EVERY other unemployed westerner is coming to Korea. Rolling Eyes

Please don't come here. You drive down the wages for those who have already been here for awhile.
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The_Source



Joined: 09 Oct 2008

PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 3:04 pm    Post subject: Re: n00b questions from a 26-year-old guy with no cert or MA Reply with quote

DCJames wrote:


OMG, You're considering coming here????!!!! Whooopdeeedooo!!!

You and EVERY other unemployed westerner is coming to Korea. :roll:

Please don't come here. You drive down the wages for those who have already been here for awhile.


Someone should have said this to you the first time you were thinking of coming here.

Idiot.
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Demophobe



Joined: 17 May 2004

PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 3:15 pm    Post subject: Re: n00b questions from a 26-year-old guy with no cert or MA Reply with quote

DCJames wrote:
squidbrand wrote:
I'm considering applying to go teach in Korea for the early 2010 season.


OMG, You're considering coming here????!!!! Whooopdeeedooo!!!

You and EVERY other unemployed westerner is coming to Korea. Rolling Eyes

Please don't come here. You drive down the wages for those who have already been here for awhile.



Anyone who feels threatened by an individual with only a BA and zero experience must be in a bad way.
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pie eater



Joined: 07 Jul 2009
Location: The Bando

PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 3:17 pm    Post subject: Re: n00b questions from a 26-year-old guy with no cert or MA Reply with quote

Demophobe wrote:
DCJames wrote:
squidbrand wrote:
I'm considering applying to go teach in Korea for the early 2010 season.


OMG, You're considering coming here????!!!! Whooopdeeedooo!!!

You and EVERY other unemployed westerner is coming to Korea. Rolling Eyes

Please don't come here. You drive down the wages for those who have already been here for awhile.



Anyone who feels threatened by an individual with only a BA and zero experience must be in a bad way.


It's hard to argue though that is what Korean employers want.
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Demophobe



Joined: 17 May 2004

PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 3:25 pm    Post subject: Re: n00b questions from a 26-year-old guy with no cert or MA Reply with quote

pie eater wrote:
Demophobe wrote:



Anyone who feels threatened by an individual with only a BA and zero experience must be in a bad way.


It's hard to argue though that is what Korean employers want.



Sorry? You mean Korean employers are looking for a BA and no experience? Really? I thought that way perhaps for some public school positions (where a parrot may also do a good job), but you can't beat higher education and experience. Anyhow, for the "better" jobs (whatever that may mean; to me, long paid vacations, tame working hours, etc) what I said certainly holds true.
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cdninkorea



Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 3:48 pm    Post subject: Re: n00b questions from a 26-year-old guy with no cert or MA Reply with quote

DCJames wrote:
squidbrand wrote:
I'm considering applying to go teach in Korea for the early 2010 season.


OMG, You're considering coming here????!!!! Whooopdeeedooo!!!

You and EVERY other unemployed westerner is coming to Korea. Rolling Eyes

Please don't come here. You drive down the wages for those who have already been here for awhile.


What's the matter; can't handle a little competition? Are you trying to take a page from the diamond cartels and keep the supply artificially restricted? Yeah, a surplus of teachers does reduce wages, but provided they meet Immigration requirements, everyone has a right to come here and seek work. This kind of mentality is what I see at anti-free trade rallies.
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E_athlete



Joined: 09 Jun 2009
Location: Korea sparkling

PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 4:56 pm    Post subject: Re: n00b questions from a 26-year-old guy with no cert or MA Reply with quote

cdninkorea wrote:
DCJames wrote:
squidbrand wrote:
I'm considering applying to go teach in Korea for the early 2010 season.


OMG, You're considering coming here????!!!! Whooopdeeedooo!!!

You and EVERY other unemployed westerner is coming to Korea. Rolling Eyes

Please don't come here. You drive down the wages for those who have already been here for awhile.


What's the matter; can't handle a little competition? Are you trying to take a page from the diamond cartels and keep the supply artificially restricted? Yeah, a surplus of teachers does reduce wages, but provided they meet Immigration requirements, everyone has a right to come here and seek work. This kind of mentality is what I see at anti-free trade rallies.


I think you understand the plight of the old school ESLers. More people fly over here equals bad for them, it can't really help them I think. They are trying to protect their livelihood.
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Demophobe



Joined: 17 May 2004

PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 5:24 pm    Post subject: Re: n00b questions from a 26-year-old guy with no cert or MA Reply with quote

E_athlete wrote:

I think you understand the plight of the old school ESLers. More people fly over here equals bad for them, it can't really help them I think. They are trying to protect their livelihood.


I think many of the old school folks are in positions that aren't threatened by an influx of novice teachers. I don't mean to be elitist or likewise in saying that, its just the truth.

There really are a few levels within Korean EFL, outside of the whole novice/hagwon scene. The long-time, established, typically in university or corporate employ (grad school degree), the mid-term folks, who are currently undertaking professional development in order to build up to a better position (they probably have the intention to stay a while), and then the folks who see public school positions as a first step up the ladder, perhaps moving on to the aforementioned stages of K-life.

The job market seems to be tiered:
4. Hagwon
3. Public school/Unigwon
2. University/Corporate/Government (these may well be separated as well regarding pay, anyhow)
1. Self-employed

The novices coming here are the ones who are/will suffer; the average undergrad/no experience hagwon folks. Things are tough for them right now, but even within that group, there are differentiations. TESL/TEFL certs, CELTAs/DELTAs, other forms of tangible professional self-development...these will be the deal-breakers in that arena. The smart ones will get that minimum qualification and they will survive.
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