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raewon
Joined: 16 Jun 2009
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 Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 3:53 am Post subject: is the subject "as"? |
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Today I asked:
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A student asked me to explain the structure of the bolded part and asked me why the subject was omitted.
As is usual with his well-crafted stories, the ending takes even the most careful reader by surprise." |
A kind soul took the time to inform me that
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| The bolded part of the sentence you supplied is a subordinate clause called an adverbial clause, specifically a clause of manner. It describes the verb in the main clause. The subject of the adverbial clause you provided is the pronoun As |
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Is the subject As? Isn't the subject implied? Man, I really need to revisit
grammar demons 101. My student is waiting for a decent explanation
to her question. I can't attempt to explain until I fully understand myself. |
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losing_touch
Joined: 26 Jun 2008
Location: Ulsan - I think!
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| Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 4:43 am Post subject: |
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My grammar is pretty rusty, but a quick look makes me think that you need to rearrange the sentence in your mind to figure out the answer to your question. I think 'as' is a subordinating conjunction being used to introduce the dependent clause. Using what I call transformational grammar, this sentence begins with the conjunction. Transform it to make the subject more clear to you and your student.
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| As is usual with his well-crafted stories, the ending takes even the most careful reader by surprise. |
Becomes ...
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| The ending takes even the most careful reader by surprise as is usual with his well-crafted stories. |
[/b] |
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Thiuda
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Location: Religion ist f�r Sklaven geschaffen, f�r Wesen ohne Geist.
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| Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 7:34 am Post subject: |
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| losing_touch wrote: |
My grammar is pretty rusty, but a quick look makes me think that you need to rearrange the sentence in your mind to figure out the answer to your question. I think 'as' is a subordinating conjunction being used to introduce the dependent clause. Using what I call transformational grammar, this sentence begins with the conjunction. Transform it to make the subject more clear to you and your student.
| Quote: |
| As is usual with his well-crafted stories, the ending takes even the most careful reader by surprise. |
Becomes ...
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| The ending takes even the most careful reader by surprise as is usual with his well-crafted stories. |
[/b] |
As can be used as a subordinating conjunction. However, when as is used as a subordinating conjunction it must be followed by a subject and a verb. In the example provided by the OP, the main verb is immediately follows As, marking As as a pronoun, meaning roughly a fact that.
Consider:
"[A fact that] is usual with his well-crafted stories, the ending takes even the most careful reader by surprise."
Doesn't sound particularly well-formed, but it's grammatically correct and provides evidence that the pronoun As functions as a subject in this clause.
Last edited by Thiuda on Thu Aug 27, 2009 7:45 am; edited 1 time in total |
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losing_touch
Joined: 26 Jun 2008
Location: Ulsan - I think!
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| Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 7:43 am Post subject: |
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| Thiuda wrote: |
| losing_touch wrote: |
My grammar is pretty rusty, but a quick look makes me think that you need to rearrange the sentence in your mind to figure out the answer to your question. I think 'as' is a subordinating conjunction being used to introduce the dependent clause. Using what I call transformational grammar, this sentence begins with the conjunction. Transform it to make the subject more clear to you and your student.
| Quote: |
| As is usual with his well-crafted stories, the ending takes even the most careful reader by surprise. |
Becomes ...
| Quote: |
| The ending takes even the most careful reader by surprise as is usual with his well-crafted stories. |
[/b] |
As can be used as a subordinating conjunction. However, when as is used as a subordinating conjunction it must be followed by a subject and a verb. In the example provided by the OP, the main verb is immediately follows As, marking As as a pronoun, meaning roughly which. |
I don't think that is the case here. The subordinating conjunction introduces a dependent clause. By definition, the dependent clause does not need a subject (noun phrase) and predicate (verb phrase). 'As' is showing the relationship between the independent and dependent clauses. The rules of transformational grammar allow for a dependent clause to be introduced by the appropriate conjunction if the proper punctuation is used to indicate such a change. There is no need for a subject in the dependent clause. |
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Epicurus
Joined: 18 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 8:21 am Post subject: |
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| I seriously cannot follow 90% of the arguments and definition in this thread, but to me it's fairly clear that "the ending" is the subject of the sentence. |
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losing_touch
Joined: 26 Jun 2008
Location: Ulsan - I think!
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| Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 8:24 am Post subject: |
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| Epicurus wrote: |
| I seriously cannot follow 90% of the arguments and definition in this thread, but to me it's fairly clear that "the ending" is the subject of the sentence. |
Yes! LoL! |
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Thiuda
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Location: Religion ist f�r Sklaven geschaffen, f�r Wesen ohne Geist.
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| Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 8:35 am Post subject: |
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| losing_touch wrote: |
| I don't think that is the case here. The subordinating conjunction introduces a dependent clause. By definition, the dependent clause does not need a subject (noun phrase) and predicate (verb phrase). 'As' is showing the relationship between the independent and dependent clauses. |
By definition, clauses are syntactic structures consisting minimally of a subject and a verb (See Clauses: the Essential Building-Blocks)
An independent clause expresses a complete thought and can stand alone. A dependent clause does not express a complete thought and cannot stand alone. Dependent clauses are introduced by dependent marker words, which mark the clause as a dependent of the main clause (See Independent and Dependent Clauses). Dependent marker words can be subordinating conjunctions or pronouns (See Clause).
I've analysed As as the subject in the example provided by the OP because it immediately precedes the main verb, i.e. given that all clauses require subjects and verbs, and given that is is the main verb, then As must be the subject.
| losing_touch wrote: |
| The rules of transformational grammar allow for a dependent clause to be introduced by the appropriate conjunction if the proper punctuation is used to indicate such a change. There is no need for a subject in the dependent clause. |
Chomsky's transformational grammar has nothing to do with punctuation, it is concerned with the innate mental representation of a grammar, not with the written conventions of a language (See Transformational Grammar). |
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Thiuda
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Location: Religion ist f�r Sklaven geschaffen, f�r Wesen ohne Geist.
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| Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 9:01 am Post subject: |
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| Epicurus wrote: |
| I seriously cannot follow 90% of the arguments and definition in this thread, but to me it's fairly clear that "the ending" is the subject of the sentence. |
Yes, "the ending" is the subject of the main clause, but since "the ending" is a noun phrase, the adverbial clause under discussion can hardly modify it, given that adverbial clauses modify the verb of the main clause - here takes. It was my understanding that the OP wanted to know what the subject of the subordinate clause was, at least that's what I understood her to be asking when I read her original query. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 10:28 am Post subject: |
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"As is usual with his well-crafted stories, the ending takes even the most careful reader by surprise."
or
"As usual with his well-crafted stories, the ending takes even the most careful reader by surprise."
Remove "is" from the sentence. Now the meaning will be clear and the grammar correct. |
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lifeinkorea
Joined: 24 Jan 2009
Location: somewhere in China
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| Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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If you are going to argue it's a pronoun, why not say relative pronoun?
John, who is the firefighter, rushed to put out the fire.
Do you know of a time when it is blah blah blah.
I am in a place where it is hot and humid.
When I first read "As", I thought of "when", but I know that's not 100% correct. We are comparing things on equal ground by using "as" (John is as tall as Betty.)
So, I would look at "as is" as a collective grammar thingamajig. I would bump the analysis away from grammar to a figure of speech.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simile
He swims as fast as a fish (is, does).
I am happy as a lamb (is).
His well-crafted stories are surprising as usually they (are, do)
His well-crafted story is surprising as usually it is. |
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