Korean Job Discussion Forums

[ajuma]

Is grammar REALLY so important for conversation? I've had students give me one or two word answers such as "wait friend". and could understand them.

What is our goal here? Are we here to make "perfect English speakers", or are we here to help our students communicate?

You go to HomePlus and you're looking for something. Isn't it more important that the sales staff understands what you want and takes you to the item? Is it SO important that they say "Please come this way. The item you're looking for is over here."??

So, understanding our students, and the fact that most likely they'll never speak English again after they finish our class, is grammar REALLY that important???

Is communication more useful than grammar?

Your 2 cents/won/rupees/pence or whatever would be appreciated.

[kimchi_pizza]

Most important

1. That the thought of the speaker is (albeit not completely clearly) understood wether it be ordering a hamburger or opinions on world peace.

2. That the fluidity of the conversation isn't interrupted or halted making the speaker seem like an imbecile when actually the speaker is someone tripping on a self-conscious "ismygrammarcorrect?"

3. That the speaker can and be willing use English in comfort and confidence, grammer be damned.

I guess grammar should be the main concern of those persuing a career where grammar can make a big of difference in areas such as politics, business, science, or trying to pass that ridiculous TOEIC test even.

Other than that....I just want get my point understand so that we can share my thought or plan or need.

My undergrads in a "Daily English Conversation" class, pshhh, I don't even bother with spelling as long as they converse(L. conversari-> associate with) another English speaker!

[HighTreason]

Grammar is, indeed, important and I'll explain why.

Have you ever learned a foreign language? If so, how did you do it? If you learned by memorizing phrases, I'm betting your skills in that language are pretty poor. The same is true if you only learned vocabulary.

Grammar is how to use a language. If you only teach vocabulary, it's like giving someone some pieces of lumber and telling them to build a house. The problem is you've given the materials but haven't provided any instructions on how to use them. If you teach the phrase approach, then it's even worse. You're just giving them tiny bits of an assembled house such that they not only don't know how to finish the house but also don't even have all the materials.

Any language acquisition method that does not include grammar is ineffective. period. Have you ever tried learning more than the very basics with that stupid Rosetta Stone software? Then you understand what I'm saying.

If you want to quibble about the finer points like how much we really need to stress never ending a sentence with a preposition or never starting a sentence with a conjunction, etc, then sure, maybe that doesn't need to be at the forefront of their English education right when they start learning the language. However, they absolutely need a firm foundation in grammar before they can ever hope to learn English.

You have to remember that we are not teaching them English so that they can serve us better at HomePlus. We are teaching them English so that they can learn English. You are right that most of them will never use it because they live in Korea. That is their choice. It is your job to provide a quality education just in case they actually choose to get something out of it and continue that education to fluency or however far they want to go with it.

We are in Korea. Most of them don't need English in their daily lives in Korea. They simply don't need basic communication English. If we were teaching English in an English speaking country, the focus would surely be tilted more toward getting them able to communicate as fast as possible so they can live and work in that society. However, this is a Korean speaking country. The goal here is to lay a good foundation so that they really understand the language and can use it to their greatest benefit, not so they can serve foreigners better at HomePlus.

[sigmundsmith]

Having taught at Hagwons, public school and now University, I would say that grammar is and isn't important.

It is important for teaching the structure of the language in the correct form and presenting it to a class. Modeling the correct use and having them repeat the correct form. Also, it is important for exams/quizzes as they should study the grammar forms outside of class so they gain an understanding.

However, when generally conversing (open discussions) I believe the importance is to allow free communication that is non-threatening to the students.

One of the greatest challenges I have is having students produce more than one or two word answers. I stress that it is important to say, ask or reply in complete sentences.

This way (I have found) builds confidence in students communication skills and develops greater understanding of how the language is used.

My 2 won's worth.

[Olivencia]

Grammar =Garbage

[WavFunc]

Grammar is very important but it shouldn't be taught by native English teachers. It should be taught in the student's first language unless the grammar in question can easily be explained or unless the native teacher is working in close conjunction with a person fluent in the student's first language.

Unfortunately, the latter situation never happens in Korea so I think most of us are better off simply not teaching grammar or only sticking to the simplest stuff.

[Easter Clark]

If you're in a public school I think the better question is "Just how important is English anyway?" The ones who will need it in the future are studying at hagwons and the ones who won't couldn't care less.

[some waygug-in]

Grammar should be taught intrinsically, not as a separate entity.

Short explanations for new or difficult patterns should suffice.

The best grammar is included inside some other activity, song, game or
sentence building worksheet.



How important is English? For most Koreans, not very important; and this includes most Korean teachers in the PS system. What is important to them is doing what they are told, blindly following useless textbooks, preparing students for endless rounds of meaningless tests.


Just how important are foreign teachers in this mess? Next to useless or insignificant. Unless the Korean staff are going to allow the foreign teachers to teach things outside the textbooks, we may as well not be here.

[richardlang]

Amen to HighTreason.

[edwardcatflap]

Well said high treason, grammar is vital. Communication will never be really effective without it.

Sure you can ask a kid what he did over the weekend and he can reply 'nintendo' and you know exactly what he did all weekend even though he hasn't actually spoken a single word of English. Kids take great pains to answer with as few words as possible, many of them do the same in their own language, but when they get to adulthood and need to communicate properly they need to express more complex ideas so they should be learning the basics in grammar from the beginning

While teaching adults you constantly get misunderstandings over when things happened (tenses) whether they are asking you a question or not (word order) whether something really happened or they are imagining it(conditionals) etc... etc...All these examples of when communication breaks down are due to grammar.

Most grammar can be taught through L2, if the teachers are properly trained, through exploration of the language, though I accept one or two minor points concerned with things like articles could be taught more quickly with an explanation in Korean

[seonsengnimble]

[Juregen]

To be honest, a lot of opinions here are seriously misguided.

1. Grammar is a tool to improve the overall knowledge in the English language.
2. We all had basic grammar in order to mold our brains in construing sentences properly.

But the overall need of any learning tool is to get the students to become confident and accurate in the use of their knowledge.

So grammar might not be essential, but can be a very effective tool to improve overall fluency.
It is when one start to sacrifice real understanding for the sake of test taking that you are on the wrong path. When you only test for grammar and vocab, and you have people to lazy to actually study the whole language, you get a perverse situation where people will learn a language as if it is a dead language (without USING it).

This is the situation where Korea is in.

If you do consider yourself to be a good teacher you can show them that the use of a plethora of language learning tools is adamant in acquiring a complete fluency in the set language.
Different tools are used for different aspects of the language, and grammar is a tool to reach overall better understanding of a language.

[Netz]

[blackjack]

[Netz]