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richardlang
Joined: 21 Jan 2007
Location: Gangnam
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 Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 2:57 pm Post subject: Hung and Hanging: Grammar Question |
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Many signs are hanging from the building.
The notice board is hung on the wall.
What's the difference between the two sentences? I have a teacher at my school who wants to know the difference, and if the two words 'hung' and 'hanging' are interchangeable between the two sentences above. It seems they are. |
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Carla
Joined: 21 Nov 2008
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| Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 3:07 pm Post subject: Re: Hung and Hanging: Grammar Question |
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| richardlang wrote: |
Many signs are hanging from the building.
The notice board is hung on the wall.
What's the difference between the two sentences? I have a teacher at my school who wants to know the difference, and if the two words 'hung' and 'hanging' are interchangeable between the two sentences above. It seems they are. |
As long as you use a helping verb, they are interchangable it seems. But with no helping verb...
He hung the picture on the wall. 
He hanging the picture on the wall.  |
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Deep Thirteen
Joined: 18 Jun 2009
Location: Swamp Land
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| Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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Hung sounds to me like the past tense form. Hanging is a present progressive tense in this case.
Present:
"He is hanging the picture on the wall."
"It is hanging over there."
Past:
"He hung the picture on the wall."
"The picture was hung on the wall."
Notice how this might sound awkward since you are using the present copula 'is':
"The picture is hung on the wall." |
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T-J
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul EunpyungGu Yeonsinnae
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| Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 4:41 pm Post subject: Re: Hung and Hanging: Grammar Question |
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| richardlang wrote: |
Many signs are hanging from the building.
The notice board is hung on the wall.
What's the difference between the two sentences? I have a teacher at my school who wants to know the difference, and if the two words 'hung' and 'hanging' are interchangeable between the two sentences above. It seems they are. |
The difference between the two is that "hang" in the first sentence is a verb. Change it from the present continuous tense to simple present and it still works.
(Many) signs hang from the building.
In the second sentence "hung" is an adjective, "is" is the verb. Also notice that other adjectives can substitute in the second sentence. |
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spaceman
Joined: 12 Jun 2009
Location: South South Korea
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| Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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| passive voice (hung) vs. present progressive (hanging) |
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T-J
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul EunpyungGu Yeonsinnae
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| Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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| spaceman wrote: |
| passive voice (hung) vs. present progressive (hanging) |
If it was passive voice the verb is wouldn't be present, I believe.
ex.
The picture hung on the wall prominently. (verb perfect tense passive voice) |
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seonsengnimble
Joined: 02 Jun 2009
Location: taking a ride on the magic English bus
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| Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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| T-J wrote: |
| spaceman wrote: |
| passive voice (hung) vs. present progressive (hanging) |
If it was passive voice the verb is wouldn't be present, I believe.
ex.
The picture hung on the wall prominently. (verb perfect tense passive voice) |
nope. There's passive voice and past passive voice. In the sentence, "the picture is hung on the wall," an unnamed entity is hanging the picture on the wall. "The picture hung on the wall prominently," Isn't perfect tense or passive voice. Passive is formed by using "to be" and the past participle. "In America, hamburgers are eaten." This is passive voice. Your example is just simple past. For hang, the pp and simple past are the same.
The difference in the original is present progressive and passive voice. 'The picture is hanging" gives the action to the picture. "The picture is hung on the wall," gives the action to the one hanging the picture. |
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Privateer
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.
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| Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 12:19 am Post subject: |
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| seonsengnimble wrote: |
| T-J wrote: |
| spaceman wrote: |
| passive voice (hung) vs. present progressive (hanging) |
If it was passive voice the verb is wouldn't be present, I believe.
ex.
The picture hung on the wall prominently. (verb perfect tense passive voice) |
nope. There's passive voice and past passive voice. In the sentence, "the picture is hung on the wall," an unnamed entity is hanging the picture on the wall. "The picture hung on the wall prominently," Isn't perfect tense or passive voice. Passive is formed by using "to be" and the past participle. "In America, hamburgers are eaten." This is passive voice. Your example is just simple past. For hang, the pp and simple past are the same.
The difference in the original is present progressive and passive voice. 'The picture is hanging" gives the action to the picture. "The picture is hung on the wall," gives the action to the one hanging the picture. |
I agree with T-J.
If the word 'hung' in the original example was part of a passive construction then we could add 'by someone' to it, i.e. "The picture is hung on the wall by Pete". That, however, would put it in the simple present thus making it a habitual action, so it would mean something like "It's Pete's job to hang that picture on the wall every time it needs doing".
It's certainly not impossible for "The picture is hung on the wall" to be a simple present passive construction (presumably indicating that the wall is where said picture belongs); but it's also perfectly possible - and more common - for it to be a simple descriptive sentence with 'hung' as an adjective. The difference is that if 'hung' were simple present passive, the picture wouldn't need to be hanging there at this moment, whereas if 'hung' is an adjective, then it does. Reading "The picture is hung on the wall" out of context, I think we naturally go for the latter interpretation.
Another example is "He is stood there looking at me". It doesn't make sense for this to be a passive construction, as if some unnamed agent stood the man there the same way you might stand a coin on its edge (I think that might even be a distinct sense of the verb 'to stand'). You could argue it's being used metaphorically, but I don't think it conjures up that kind of image; and some would say it's slang.
On the other hand, it doesn't behave exactly like an adjective either: normal adjectives aren't followed by expressions of location (i.e. 'stood there' or 'hung on the wall'. Perhaps what we have here is some special kind of construction involving participial adjectives with expressions of location? |
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lifeinkorea
Joined: 24 Jan 2009
Location: somewhere in China
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| Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 12:26 am Post subject: |
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| How many of you are still "hunging" around? |
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seonsengnimble
Joined: 02 Jun 2009
Location: taking a ride on the magic English bus
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| Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 3:40 am Post subject: |
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| Privateer wrote: |
I agree with T-J.
If the word 'hung' in the original example was part of a passive construction then we could add 'by someone' to it, i.e. "The picture is hung on the wall by Pete". That, however, would put it in the simple present thus making it a habitual action, so it would mean something like "It's Pete's job to hang that picture on the wall every time it needs doing" |
I see where you're going with this, but I'd have to disagree. While the idea of someone hanging the picture on the wall everyday is a bit absurd, that is the only conclusion I can gather from the sentence structure. It's pretty uncommon to say anything "is hung on the wall". If I wanted to say it is on the wall, I would say the picture "is hanging on the wall," "is on the wall" or "was on the wall." Hung isn't a past participle that takes an adjective form except for in a manner that would be mod edited.
The only situation I can see using "is hung" would be if someone were talking about something that is regularly hung. For example, "Every Christmas, the family portrait is hung on the wall next to the Christmas tree."
I could be wrong if this is some wacky British grammar like "I have not a car" or "I do my homework at the weekend."
However, the idea that by using "is", the sentence isn't passive is just wrong. 'The picture hung on the wall" is in no way passive or perfect. Perfect tense would be "The picture has/had hung on the wall for a year."
| Privateer wrote: |
On the other hand, it doesn't behave exactly like an adjective either: normal adjectives aren't followed by expressions of location (i.e. 'stood there' or 'hung on the wall'. Perhaps what we have here is some special kind of construction involving participial adjectives with expressions of location? |
Adjectives can be used with locations,"I was happy at the beach" but with the picture, it doesn't make too much sense unless the picture has large genitalia. |
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meangradin
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 3:47 am Post subject: |
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Im no expert at these things, BUT, i'll take a shot.
Hung is only an adjective before a noun, as in a "hung jury." That reminds me of a joke...
My initial thought was that the passive voice had to be used with the past tense of the verb to be (was/were), but it must be allowable with the present:
"Where is that computer made? That computer is made in Korea by Samsung."
I really don't see much of a difference between the sentences if I substituted the past tense.
| Quote: |
| Many signs are hanging from the building. |
This is obviously present progressive. |
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Pompeyinnit
Joined: 01 Nov 2008
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| Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 4:02 am Post subject: |
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Most of the people on this post are speaking nonsense.
Nonsense is spoken by most of the people on Dave's.
Present continuous vs. passive voice present
an action in progress right now vs. a general truth
and ditto what seonsengnimble said...except for the rubbish about British English being wacky! Remember your roots... |
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