Site Search:
 
Speak Korean Now!
Teach English Abroad and Get Paid to see the World!
Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Grammar help using "first"

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Off-Topic Forum
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
pkang0202



Joined: 09 Mar 2007

PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:55 pm    Post subject: Grammar help using "first" Reply with quote

It was Tom who first reported that meat was a part of a bird's diet.
or
It was Tom who reported first that meat was a part of a bird's diet.


The grammar book I have is absolutely useless. "When an adjective has its own complement the whole expression normally comes after the noun. In some cases an adjective can come before a nout and its complement."

That explanation told me nothing. I'm hoping some of you Grammar whiz's can help me out.

I want to explain how putting first before or after reported slightly changes the meaning of the sentence, but I don't know how to put it into words.

First reported is saying Tom was the first to report. But, reported First could also mean Tom was the first to report. Is there a way I can explain the difference between the two without being confusing?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bronski



Joined: 17 Apr 2006

PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't really know, but the first sentence sounds better to me. In the second sentence it sounds like the first could be part of a series of things that Tom reported. However, there's only one thing that Tom reported, but he was the first person to report it.

Quote:
It was Tom who reported first that meat was a part of a bird's diet [and second that...blah blah blah].


The first sentence sounds less ambiguous to me.

Does that make any sense? I don't know. Just an idea.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Moldy Rutabaga



Joined: 01 Jul 2003
Location: Ansan, Korea

PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was Tom who first reported that meat was a part of a bird's diet.
or
It was Tom who reported first that meat was a part of a bird's diet.

Because the adverb first in English can come before or after the word it modifies (reported), it's possible for both sentences to mean exactly the same thing. But the first sentence sounds better to me too because it is clearer. The second could be the beginning of a series: Tom reported first that meat was part, etc.; he then reported that bears poop in the mall, and thirdly he reported that the pope is Danish, etc. Context would make the difference clear, but to me the first is better writing.

Ken:>
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pkang0202



Joined: 09 Mar 2007

PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks guys, that is a pretty good way of explaining it. I hate it when teachers hand me sentence and ask me to explain the grammar, without having the rest of the paragraph available to me in order to gauge the context.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Underwaterbob



Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Location: In Cognito

PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pkang0202 wrote:
Thanks guys, that is a pretty good way of explaining it. I hate it when teachers hand me sentence and ask me to explain the grammar, without having the rest of the paragraph available to me in order to gauge the context.


Same here, they ask me to explain something out of context and I have to stammer along and tell them, well, if this is the case then this, or if this is the case, then this. Then they inevitably walk away more confused than they were before.

Then they put these ambiguous grammar questions on tests and assume that since I can pick out which sentence sounds better that the students can too, even though another choice isn't necessarily wrong.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Off-Topic Forum All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe
TEFL Courses, TESOL Course, English Teaching Jobs - TEFL International