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brento1138
Joined: 17 Nov 2004
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 Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 7:33 am Post subject: I got a letter from Revenue Canada today... they want my $$! |
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Update: I filled out the form again and sent it in, correctly this time, and have gotten a response back from the CRC. Guess what? I am now an official "non-resident for tax purposes" dating back from January 2005. Awesome! Everyone, I highly suggest you fill out these forms, but fill them out correctly!!! MAKE SURE YOU DO THIS: Tick the box that says "you are subject to income tax on your world income in South Korea" even if you don't make any income outside of the country.
Here is the wonderful reply they sent back to me:
We have reviewed your residency status based on the additional information you provided on your amended NR73 form, received in our office on January 20, 2009. You have indicated to us that you are considered a resident and subject to income tax on your world income in South Korea, and since in our opinion you have not maintained significant residential ties with Canada, we consider you to be a non-resident of Canada as of January 5, 2005.
My only ties are
A) A BC Driver's License
B) A Royal Bank Account with a visa card attached
C) Passport
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here's my old post for reference:
I had made a post earlier about filling out a non-residency form and sending it into Canada:
http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=118346&highlight=non-residency
Anyways, I was sent a form from Revenue Canada. It said that I am deemed a "factual resident" and must pay income tax on all earnings made in and outside of Canada. Well then.
I don't think this is fair. The only ties I have to Canada is a Canadian bank account at RBC (with a VISA credit card attached) plus a driver's license. That's it! No house, no children & wife waiting in a trailer for me... nothing!
I've lived here since January 2005, with a couple visits to Canada. I've made approximately $30,000 dollars a year here. So, if I were to pay all the taxes for four years ... I can't imagine what that would be.
Insane! Paying taxes for roads I don't use, a health system I'm not taking advantage of, ... it's all rather strange, isn't it? The dictionary definition of "resident" kind of requires you to be living in the place questioned. I have an alien residence card in Korea. Aren't I a resident here?
It's somewhat strange, and back in the day I questioned Korean logic. Canadian logic is odd too sometimes.
Ahh well. I'll fight them to the bitter end about this! 
Last edited by brento1138 on Sat Apr 11, 2009 5:43 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Girlygirl
Joined: 31 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 7:55 am Post subject: |
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| S*** You mean you haven't filed your taxes for all those years? Even if as a non-resident, you need to report your income every year. The government does give you a 3-year limit to declare all at once. Keep us posted. That reminds me I didn't do my taxes last year. |
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justaguy
Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Location: seoul
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| Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 8:09 am Post subject: |
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Welfare state governments are addicted to money. You made contact with these addicts and asked if you should give them some money.
I think you forgot just how money crazy they are.
I hope you don't wind up as the turkey that invited himself to Christmas dinner. |
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justaguy
Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Location: seoul
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| Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 8:20 am Post subject: |
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| Girlygirl wrote: |
| S*** You mean you haven't filed your taxes for all those years? Even if as a non-resident, you need to report your income every year. The government does give you a 3-year limit to declare all at once. Keep us posted. That reminds me I didn't do my taxes last year. |
Hogwash!
Non-residents don't need to file unless you have primary ties to the country. Most people don't have primary ties and so most people don't need to file.
If you don't have primary ties you can pay your taxes to the Koreans or you can pay the Canadians. It's your choice.
Americans do have to file a tax return every year no matter where they are. Not Canadians. |
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denverdeath
Joined: 21 May 2005
Location: Boo-sahn
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| Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 8:35 am Post subject: Re: I got a letter from Revenue Canada today... they want my |
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| brento1138 wrote: |
I had made a post earlier about filling out a non-residency form and sending it into Canada:
http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=118346&highlight=non-residency
Anyways, I was sent a form from Revenue Canada. It said that I am deemed a "factual resident" and must pay income tax on all earnings made in and outside of Canada. Well then.
I don't think this is fair. The only ties I have to Canada is a Canadian bank account at RBC (with a VISA credit card attached) plus a driver's license. That's it! No house, no children & wife waiting in a trailer for me... nothing!
I've lived here since January 2005, with a couple visits to Canada. I've made approximately $30,000 dollars a year here. So, if I were to pay all the taxes for four years ... I can't imagine what that would be.
Insane! Paying taxes for roads I don't use, a health system I'm not taking advantage of, ... it's all rather strange, isn't it? The dictionary definition of "resident" kind of requires you to be living in the place questioned. I have an alien residence card in Korea. Aren't I a resident here?
It's somewhat strange, and back in the day I questioned Korean logic. Canadian logic is odd too sometimes.
Ahh well. I'll fight them to the bitter end about this! |
I would definitely fight that one. I was deemed a non-resident and had the exact same ties as you[minus the visa that I cut up upon return from Korea in '98 after fully paying it and the mastercard off(which I also cut up)]. Think the bank accounts are no longer active, but the new license is sitting in the Korean DMV at the moment. Thanks for reminding me that I have to remind our consulate that it has now been OVER a year that I have been waiting for my son's certificate of citizenship to that (crappy) country.  |
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brento1138
Joined: 17 Nov 2004
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| Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 8:56 am Post subject: Re: I got a letter from Revenue Canada today... they want my |
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Three extra points to make here people:
Number 1: The Canada Revenue Agency actually thought I was living in North Korea. This letter is addressed to the "Democratic People's Republic of Korea." Little do they know that Seoul is actually in South Korea. To learn about the DPRK, I suggest they please click here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DPRK
Number 2: I think I found the reason why they didn't accept my application. I may have ticked a wrong box. They said "You indicated that you are not subject to income tax on your world income in another country." Although I totally do not remember SAYING that, I am taxed here, so wouldn't that contradict what I've supposedly SAID? I believe I better indicate that I am indeed subject to income tax on my world income in another country. Since I make no money outside of Korea, my world income is only the money I've made in Korea. And that income is taxed by the Korean government.
Number 3: I think they must look in the dictionary to find out the definition of citizen and of resident. I am "RESIDING" in Korea, therefore am I not a resident here? I can be a citizen of Canada, yet a resident of Korea.
With these 3 points, I tried phoning them up at the number they provided me 613-952-3741 however, they have a busy signal. Perhaps they are on the phone with Kim Jong Il, asking me where I am? |
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cruisemonkey
Joined: 04 Jul 2005
Location: Hopefully, the same place as my luggage.
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| Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:29 am Post subject: |
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Read the guidelines about nonresidency. You are allowed up to three primary ties to Canada in order to qualify, one of which is your passport.
You listed: bank account, credit card, and driver's licence (three)... add your passport and the total becomes four (one too many). |
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Draz
Joined: 27 Jun 2007
Location: Land of Morning Clam
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| Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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| cruisemonkey wrote: |
Read the guidelines about nonresidency. You are allowed up to three primary ties to Canada in order to qualify, one of which is your passport.
You listed: bank account, credit card, and driver's licence (three)... add your passport and the total becomes four (one too many). |
Can't the credit card be part of your bank account? I also have an investment account tied to it. It's a package deal so I get a discount on the banking fee.
Need to look into non-resident bank accounts... |
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Draz
Joined: 27 Jun 2007
Location: Land of Morning Clam
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| Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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| cruisemonkey wrote: |
Read the guidelines about nonresidency. You are allowed up to three primary ties to Canada in order to qualify, one of which is your passport.
You listed: bank account, credit card, and driver's licence (three)... add your passport and the total becomes four (one too many). |
There isn't anything about a "magic number" on their webpage...
http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/E/pub/tp/it221r3-consolid/it221r3-consolid-e.html
| Quote: |
Residential Ties In Canada
� 4. The most important factor to be considered in determining whether or not an individual leaving Canada remains resident in Canada for tax purposes is whether or not the individual maintains residential ties with Canada while he or she is abroad. While the residence status of an individual can only be determined on a case by case basis after taking into consideration all of the relevant facts, generally, unless an individual severs all significant residential ties with Canada upon leaving Canada, the individual will continue to be a factual resident of Canada and subject to Canadian tax on his or her worldwide income.
� 5. The residential ties of an individual that will almost always be significant residential ties for the purpose of determining residence status are the individual's
(a) dwelling place (or places),
(b) spouse or common-law partner, and
(c) dependants.
� 6. Where an individual who leaves Canada keeps a dwelling place in Canada (whether owned or leased), available for his or her occupation, that dwelling place will be considered to be a significant residential tie with Canada during the individual's stay abroad. However, if an individual leases a dwelling place located in Canada to a third party on arm's length terms and conditions, the CCRA will take into account all of the circumstances of the situation (including the relationship between the individual and the third party, the real estate market at the time of the individual's departure from Canada, and the purpose of the stay abroad), and may not consider the dwelling place to be a significant residential tie with Canada except when taken together with other residential ties (see � 17 for an example of this situation and see � 9 for a discussion of the significance of secondary residential ties).
� 7. If an individual who is married or cohabiting with a common-law partner leaves Canada, but his or her spouse or common-law partner remains in Canada, then that spouse or common-law partner will usually be a significant residential tie with Canada during the individual's absence from Canada. Similarly, if an individual with dependants leaves Canada, but his or her dependants remain behind, then those dependants will usually be considered to be a significant residential tie with Canada while the individual is abroad. Where an individual was living separate and apart from his or her spouse or common-law partner prior to leaving Canada, by reason of a breakdown of their marriage or common-law partnership, that spouse or common-law partner will not be considered to be a significant tie with Canada.
� 8. Generally, secondary residential ties must be looked at collectively in order to evaluate the significance of any one such tie, therefore, it would be unusual for a single secondary residential tie with Canada to be sufficient in and by itself to lead to a determination that an individual is factually resident in Canada while abroad. Secondary residential ties that will be taken into account in determining the residence status of an individual while outside Canada are
(a) personal property in Canada (such as furniture, clothing, automobiles and recreational vehicles),
(b) social ties with Canada (such as memberships in Canadian recreational and religious organizations),
(c) economic ties with Canada (such as employment with a Canadian employer and active involvement in a Canadian business, and Canadian bank accounts, retirement savings plans, credit cards, and securities accounts),
(d) landed immigrant status or appropriate work permits in Canada,
(e) hospitalization and medical insurance coverage from a province or territory of Canada,
(f) a driver's license from a province or territory of Canada,
(g) a vehicle registered in a province or territory of Canada,
(h) a seasonal dwelling place in Canada or a leased dwelling place referred to in � 6,
(i) a Canadian passport, and
(j) memberships in Canadian unions or professional organizations.
� 9. Other residential ties that the Courts have considered in determining the residence status of an individual while outside Canada, and which may be taken into account by the CCRA, include the retention of a Canadian mailing address, post office box, or safety deposit box, personal stationery (including business cards) showing a Canadian address, telephone listings in Canada, and local (Canadian) newspaper and magazine subscriptions. These residential ties are generally of limited importance except when taken together with other residential ties, or with other factors such as those described in � 10. |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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Tell them to take a flying fark at a rolling donut. What are they going to do? Try and garnishee your wages in Korea?
You are a non-resident, whether they like it or not. |
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TheChickenLover
Joined: 17 Dec 2007
Location: The Chicken Coop
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| Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 2:28 pm Post subject: Re: I got a letter from Revenue Canada today... they want my |
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| brento1138 wrote: |
I had made a post earlier about filling out a non-residency form and sending it into Canada:
http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=118346&highlight=non-residency
Anyways, I was sent a form from Revenue Canada. It said that I am deemed a "factual resident" and must pay income tax on all earnings made in and outside of Canada. Well then.
I don't think this is fair. The only ties I have to Canada is a Canadian bank account at RBC (with a VISA credit card attached) plus a driver's license. That's it! No house, no children & wife waiting in a trailer for me... nothing!
I've lived here since January 2005, with a couple visits to Canada. I've made approximately $30,000 dollars a year here. So, if I were to pay all the taxes for four years ... I can't imagine what that would be.
Insane! Paying taxes for roads I don't use, a health system I'm not taking advantage of, ... it's all rather strange, isn't it? The dictionary definition of "resident" kind of requires you to be living in the place questioned. I have an alien residence card in Korea. Aren't I a resident here?
It's somewhat strange, and back in the day I questioned Korean logic. Canadian logic is odd too sometimes.
Ahh well. I'll fight them to the bitter end about this! |
Revenue Canada is merciless when it comes to back taxes & for the record, you ARE still a resident of Canada! YOU KEPT TIES THAT WOULD ALLOW YOU TO GET ACCESS TO HEALTH CARE! That was your bank account and DRIVER'S LICENSE! You have a Canadian address tied to both, so yeah you're still technically using a Canadian address & can still enjoy the benefits that they provide.
This happens more often than you think, but usually when alot of Canadians return after a year or two & revenue Canada asks them how they supported themselves for those years & they have a work visa recorded on their passport.
The key to getting non-residency is to actually leave as if you are never coming back! Cancel your bank accounts, health coverage, let everything expire & keep ZERO credit cards. I even had Revenue Canada mail me in Korea requesting the return of my GST refund since I was 'no longer entitled as a non-resident' which was done (& I kept the letter of course). 
The taxes that you owe will be the standard income taxes (plus benefits since they ARE considered part of your salary ie:housing) with a penalty of upto 100% + interest for each year. This can become has high as nearly 60-65% of your income in Korea (including possible penalties). Since you've been here since 2005 & you are claiming you made nearly 30k per year. Well, add in 300 or 400k for housing so we'll tab that off @ say 36k + airfare (which is also taxed) so an even 40k per year.
120k x 0.3 (regular tax rate) = $36 (not including interest penalties)
= approx $39.7k
Penalties are essentially a 100% penalty for tax evasion (like leaving the country & not filing) which can be very hard to prove.
= approx $89.4k
Revenue Canada will calculate the average salary + benefits in determining your tax rate. If you cannot prove your income (using bank accounts & such) to be actually higher or lower they will use an avg. YOU are deemed to owe until you can prove otherwise & the onus is on you to prove you were indeed a non-resident (which you just admitted enoug ties to say you were).
IF you don't pay your back taxes, Revenue Canada can do as folllows:
1 - garnish wages
2 - asset seizure
3 - denial of passport renewal <- (no more leaving until you pay)
4 - denail of driver's license renewal
5 - ruined credit for 7 years <- no professional work offered with bad credit
In a real sense..you're screwed.
Sorry dude.
Chicken |
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cruisemonkey
Joined: 04 Jul 2005
Location: Hopefully, the same place as my luggage.
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| Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Draz wrote: |
| There isn't anything about a "magic number" on their webpage... |
You're right. However, it did when I applied for the determination.
Also, they have changed some of the terminology make things even more vague than they were before. |
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bassexpander
Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Location: Someplace you'd rather be.
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| Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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| OMG, this sounds HORRIBLE! |
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brento1138
Joined: 17 Nov 2004
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| Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 3:41 pm Post subject: Re: I got a letter from Revenue Canada today... they want my |
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| TheChickenLover wrote: |
Revenue Canada is merciless when it comes to back taxes & for the record, you ARE still a resident of Canada! YOU KEPT TIES THAT WOULD ALLOW YOU TO GET ACCESS TO HEALTH CARE! That was your bank account and DRIVER'S LICENSE! You have a Canadian address tied to both, so yeah you're still technically using a Canadian address & can still enjoy the benefits that they provide.
This happens more often than you think, but usually when alot of Canadians return after a year or two & revenue Canada asks them how they supported themselves for those years & they have a work visa recorded on their passport.
The key to getting non-residency is to actually leave as if you are never coming back! Cancel your bank accounts, health coverage, let everything expire & keep ZERO credit cards. I even had Revenue Canada mail me in Korea requesting the return of my GST refund since I was 'no longer entitled as a non-resident' which was done (& I kept the letter of course).
The taxes that you owe will be the standard income taxes (plus benefits since they ARE considered part of your salary ie:housing) with a penalty of upto 100% + interest for each year. This can become has high as nearly 60-65% of your income in Korea (including possible penalties). Since you've been here since 2005 & you are claiming you made nearly 30k per year. Well, add in 300 or 400k for housing so we'll tab that off @ say 36k + airfare (which is also taxed) so an even 40k per year.
120k x 0.3 (regular tax rate) = $36 (not including interest penalties)
= approx $39.7k
Penalties are essentially a 100% penalty for tax evasion (like leaving the country & not filing) which can be very hard to prove.
= approx $89.4k
Revenue Canada will calculate the average salary + benefits in determining your tax rate. If you cannot prove your income (using bank accounts & such) to be actually higher or lower they will use an avg. YOU are deemed to owe until you can prove otherwise & the onus is on you to prove you were indeed a non-resident (which you just admitted enoug ties to say you were).
IF you don't pay your back taxes, Revenue Canada can do as folllows:
1 - garnish wages
2 - asset seizure
3 - denial of passport renewal <- (no more leaving until you pay)
4 - denail of driver's license renewal
5 - ruined credit for 7 years <- no professional work offered with bad credit
In a real sense..you're screwed.
Sorry dude.
Chicken |
Firstly, I talked with the medical services plan and they basically deleted everything about me. I'm no longer a member, and not required to pay any money to them. They actually said they've made it as if they've never even charged me. I didn't have to pay the money, since I said I was a non-resident over the phone. So, that's been taken care of. In other words, MSP never contacted me and I never owed them money.
I don't think revenue Canada will magically know I had benefits like housing in my previous two jobs. I don't have that benefit now, actually, as I pay for my apartment out of my own pocket. How can they find that out? Call my employers?
And where did you get information about interest? 65% of my salary? That sounds "interesting." I've heard opposite, that if you haven't paid your taxes for a while they will simply take the money (approx.16% of all income made in Korea) with no questions asked. I can get all my info from the tax office in Korea, I do believe.
So, if they want to charge me almost one hundred thousand dollars for being in Korea, as a non-resident, I'll go to the media, report on the injustice, and take it to the supreme court.
Your post seems like a joke, however, Canadian government is actually that dumb.
Then again, I'm pretty sure I ticked the wrong box on a form (if I was subject to income tax on my world income in another country) which I actually am... the E-2 visa means all the income I can possibly make is this job, which therefore, is my world income. I'll resend and also submit a written letter to them wishing them to review the case further. |
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denverdeath
Joined: 21 May 2005
Location: Boo-sahn
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| Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 3:45 pm Post subject: Re: I got a letter from Revenue Canada today... they want my |
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| TheChickenLover wrote: |
Revenue Canada is merciless when it comes to back taxes & for the record, you ARE still a resident of Canada! YOU KEPT TIES THAT WOULD ALLOW YOU TO GET ACCESS TO HEALTH CARE! That was your bank account and DRIVER'S LICENSE! You have a Canadian address tied to both, so yeah you're still technically using a Canadian address & can still enjoy the benefits that they provide. |
Different provinces operate differently. Even though I have diabetes, I have no free-and-clear, no-questions-asked access to healthcare on the NB medicare system until I reapply for it if/when I go back. In NB, they cancel it as soon as they can...you don't have to tell them to do so. He may have access to healthcare; but if he doesn't access it, he has no ties to canada in that area. Hospital records could easily prove that. Having an address(parents'/whomever's) does not mean ownership(primary tie), which I'm sure the op could as well easily prove(if necessary) to revenue canada. He's not screwed. |
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