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Thiuda
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Location: Religion ist f�r Sklaven geschaffen, f�r Wesen ohne Geist.
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Epik_Teacher
Joined: 28 Apr 2010
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 Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 11:14 pm Post subject: |
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| LOL! Koreans can't even manage to get their top universities in the top world colleges. Not to mention the pathetic domestic English programs like Seoul National University came up with. Cheating and plagerism are rampant at all levels here. Korea will dominate this field when hell freezes over! |
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Thiuda
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Location: Religion ist f�r Sklaven geschaffen, f�r Wesen ohne Geist.
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| Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 1:30 am Post subject: |
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| Epik_Teacher wrote: |
| LOL! Koreans can't even manage to get their top universities in the top world colleges. Not to mention the pathetic domestic English programs like Seoul National University came up with. Cheating and plagerism are rampant at all levels here. Korea will dominate this field when hell freezes over! |
Your post is pretty simplistic. A number of Korean universities are among the top world universities: POSTECH (28 ), KAIST (79), SNU (109) and Yonsei (190) are among the top 200 universities in the world, that's the top 1% of universities worldwide (assuming a total number of ca. 20000 universities worldwide).
Cheating and plagiarism are problems universities face around the world. This isn't a Korean problem, its part of the human condition. For every Korean Hwang, there is an American Hauser.
Korea may dominate this market:
"Korea is planning and is trying to make a big inroad into making money off of e-learning," said Ann K. Brooks, a professor of education at Texas State University who has spent 10 years working in Asia. "They've invested an enormous amount in hardware, and they're really good at it."
Edited due to a calculation error.
Last edited by Thiuda on Sat Sep 25, 2010 3:47 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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liveinkorea316
Joined: 20 Aug 2010
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 2:17 am Post subject: |
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| Your post is pretty simplistic. A number of Korean universities are among the top world universities: POSTECH (28 ), KAIST (79), SNU (109) and Yonsei (190) are among the top 200 universities in the world, that's the top 0.01% of universities worldwide (assuming a total number of ca. 20000 universities worldwide). |
If you got out your calculator you would soon find that 200 is not .01% of 20,000. It's more like 1%.
Secondly, If you are under the illusion that Korean people cheat less on average than those in other countries you are sorely mistaken. Cheating happens everywhere but it is worse in Korea than most other places I have heard of except third world countries. The cheating culture here starts at the top and is the reason for the terrible system of testing they have here in schools. There is no other way to select people for government jobs or university entry because if it was left to any other method then nepotism, and lying and cheating overtake everything else.
You don't see those kinds of testing systems like the 소시생 and the 수능 in the West because cheating just isn't as rampant and uncontrollable.
As for whether Korea can prosper in the online age of university education...maybe. They do actually have very goot IT and Telecommunications infrastructure and experience. The bigger question is whether there is actually a market for online university education. It has been a question for decades already and the market is still to actually take off. At the monent I tend to think it is a product in search of a market. There is still no major demand for 100% online university.
In most countries people will travel and attend a reasonable uni rather than purchase an online one that is more prestigeous. There is still a stigma attached to it. For example I have heard that some Korean Universities will ask whather your Masters was online if you apply for a teaching position - why should that matter? If they want to lead the world in online Uni shouldn't they at least recognise it as a viable medium?? |
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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| Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 6:29 am Post subject: |
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...according to the source page you link to....http://www.webometrics.info/about_rank.html
South Korea has no universities in the top 100
has 1 university in the top 200
has 3 in the top 500.
...care to list the source for your contradictory claims? |
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Thiuda
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Location: Religion ist f�r Sklaven geschaffen, f�r Wesen ohne Geist.
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| Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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| liveinkorea316 wrote: |
| If you got out your calculator you would soon find that 200 is not .01% of 20,000. It's more like 1%. |
Thank you. I've corrected the error. Nevertheless, the point made stands: Korea has several universities in the top 200 universities worldwide.
| liveinkorea316 wrote: |
| Secondly, If you are under the illusion that Korean people cheat less on average than those in other countries you are sorely mistaken. Cheating happens everywhere but it is worse in Korea than most other places I have heard of except third world countries. The cheating culture here starts at the top and is the reason for the terrible system of testing they have here in schools. There is no other way to select people for government jobs or university entry because if it was left to any other method then nepotism, and lying and cheating overtake everything else. |
I agree that cheating happens. I don't know whether it happens more in Korea than in other (developed) nations, since I don't have any stats that would point in either direction. I would be inclined, however, to argue that if cheating was endemic to Korean society in the past, then it is quickly becoming less of a problem - in part due to high-profile cases such as the Hwang scandal.
| liveinkorea316 wrote: |
| You don't see those kinds of testing systems like the 소시생 and the 수능 in the West because cheating just isn't as rampant and uncontrollable. |
In Germany we have the Abitur, which is identical to the 수능.
| liveinkorea316 wrote: |
| As for whether Korea can prosper in the online age of university education...maybe. They do actually have very goot IT and Telecommunications infrastructure and experience. The bigger question is whether there is actually a market for online university education. It has been a question for decades already and the market is still to actually take off. At the monent I tend to think it is a product in search of a market. There is still no major demand for 100% online university. |
I agree with you that 100% online universities are not considered very respectable, my money is on brick-and-mortar institutions offering distance programs online.
| The Cosmic Hum wrote: |
...according to the source page you link to....http://www.webometrics.info/about_rank.html
South Korea has no universities in the top 100
has 1 university in the top 200
has 3 in the top 500.
...care to list the source for your contradictory claims? |
Should have done that in the post:
I used http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/index.html |
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sigmundsmith
Joined: 22 Nov 2007
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| Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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They want to target Southeast Asia, Africa and maybe the US market. The first two are possibilities but the US, I think they will have a challenge there. THey also mentioned targeting Korean foreign nationals living abroad. That is also a possibility as well.
But they concede that to compete with e-learning institutions they have to add additional courses in English to compete. For the Korean market that is a struggle. In the article it said: "Koreans really hate English". And they look for novel ways like spending $100 million on some robotic English thing.
Instead of looking at such fruitless endeavors they should look at how they view and approach their teaching methods and evaluation of students across the board before providing a product that most likely will not measure up internationally. |
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Drew345
Joined: 24 May 2005
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| Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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| It could work except that the rest of the world would have to downgrade to Windows 98 and use a 2 year old version of Explorer. Exams will no doubt require activeX controllers to be installed. |
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SinclairLondon
Joined: 17 Sep 2010
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Hugo85
Joined: 27 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 8:16 am Post subject: |
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| Thiuda wrote: |
Your post is pretty simplistic. A number of Korean universities are among the top world universities: POSTECH (28 ), KAIST (79), SNU (109) and Yonsei (190) are among the top 200 universities in the world, that's the top 1% of universities worldwide (assuming a total number of ca. 20000 universities worldwide). |
That ranking website is pretty terrible. Michigan State U better than Cambridge? No way in hell.
http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/2010-2011/top-200.html
Times Higher Education has POSTECH at 28, KAIST 79 and SNU at 109. (I assume you got your numbers from this ranking)
The QS rankings are currently down but in technology the rankings are the following (I don't have access to global rankings atm) :
KAIST 24, SNU 38,
http://www.usnews.com/articles/education/worlds-best-universities/2010/09/21/worlds-best-universities-top-400-.html?PageNr=2
US News world ranking has SNU at 50, KAIST at 79 and POSTECH 112
http://www.arwu.org/ARWU2010_2.jsp
Jiao Tong is also biased severely towards factors for US universities but places SNU in the 101-150 range, KAIST 201-300, Yonsei 201-300 and Postech 301-400.
In rankings that don't look at nobel prizes as being 40% of a universities worth (Jiao Tong for example), Korean universities fare very well.[/url] |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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| liveinkorea316 wrote: |
| [, If you are under the illusion that Korean people cheat less on average than those in other countries you are sorely mistaken. Cheating happens everywhere but it is worse in Korea than most other places I have heard of except third world countries. |
Stats?
Or are you just making this up? |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| liveinkorea316 wrote: |
| [, If you are under the illusion that Korean people cheat less on average than those in other countries you are sorely mistaken. Cheating happens everywhere but it is worse in Korea than most other places I have heard of except third world countries. |
Stats?
Or are you just making this up? |
People here love to say Korea is still like it was 25 years ago. Corruption was bad 25 years ago, but with the media loving to dig up dirt these days, it's pretty hard hiding extra money these days, because somebody will find out. If entertainers can't hide a mere few million, a CEO can't really hide a few hundred million without one of your enemies finding out. |
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Thiuda
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Location: Religion ist f�r Sklaven geschaffen, f�r Wesen ohne Geist.
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| Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Hugo85 wrote: |
| That ranking website is pretty terrible. Michigan State U better than Cambridge? No way in hell. |
Yes, I agree that the ranking website wasn't particularly good, but I used it as a source, not of ranking information, but of the total number of universities worldwide - just less than 20000. Then, I used The Times Higher Education rankings as the source for the rankings of Korean universities.
In any case, the point is that there are Korean universities that one can claim to be among the best in the world. Now, whether they will become the top purveyors of distance/online education in the future is another question entirely. |
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Hugo85
Joined: 27 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Thiuda wrote: |
| Hugo85 wrote: |
| That ranking website is pretty terrible. Michigan State U better than Cambridge? No way in hell. |
Yes, I agree that the ranking website wasn't particularly good, but I used it as a source, not of ranking information, but of the total number of universities worldwide - just less than 20000. Then, I used The Times Higher Education rankings as the source for the rankings of Korean universities.
In any case, the point is that there are Korean universities that one can claim to be among the best in the world. Now, whether they will become the top purveyors of distance/online education in the future is another question entirely. |
There is no doubt that some korean universities are amongst the best... SNU, KAIST, Pohang UST and Yonsei are definitely good international options.
However the problem with online education is that it will most likely never hold much value. Especially if these universities can't even find a niche within their local population... |
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liveinkorea316
Joined: 20 Aug 2010
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| liveinkorea316 wrote: |
| [, If you are under the illusion that Korean people cheat less on average than those in other countries you are sorely mistaken. Cheating happens everywhere but it is worse in Korea than most other places I have heard of except third world countries. |
Stats?
Or are you just making this up? |
I think you just need the read the newspaper any day of the week to hear about the latest scandal involving cheating/graft/nepotism. People in power in Korea tend to think it is their duty to use that position for personal gain and to help their buddies. The last two presidents, the stats released by the newspapers last week about nepotism being rife in the public sector and the existence of the hated 수능 and 고시생 are all evidence of this.
Do you have any stats to show it is better than the rest of the world or at least the same? |
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