|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Trevor
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
|
 Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 1:44 am Post subject: Question |
 |
|
.?
Last edited by Trevor on Sun Nov 14, 2010 11:24 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
BS.Dos.
Joined: 29 Mar 2007
|
| Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 2:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Answer regarding overthrowing the US Government: Good luck. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dporter
Joined: 26 Apr 2009
|
| Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 4:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
| There are regular elections and methods of recall. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
|
| Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 5:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
| I know of no way other than violent revolution. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
|
| Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 6:06 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Well, first you'd have to bring along a stronger army than the one the US govt has at its disposal. In other words, it ain't gonna happen... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
|
| Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 6:08 am Post subject: Re: Question about overthrowing the U.S. Government |
|
|
| Trevor wrote: |
Let's just say that, hypothetically, it could be proven that not only did the U.S. government aid and abet in the destruction of 9/11, but they also knowingly gave false information regarding their knowledge of WMD's in Iraq. If it could be determined beyond a reasonable doubt that the United States government attacked their own citizens and then used that circumstance as a pretext to attack another country, would the citizens of the United States have any legal right under international law to seek the overthrow of their government? Under what circumstances do ordinary citizens have a legal right to seek the dissolution of their own government?
Let me pose the question from another angle. In a parliamentary government, there is a system in which a vote of no confidence can be given and the government is automatically dissolved. Apparently, there is no such safety valve within the U.S. government's constitution. In a case in which the government fails egregiously in its duties to protect its citizen's and uphold its own laws, what legal, nonviolent means do ordinary citizens have at their disposal to seek the orderly dissolution of their government, as in a parliamentary system of government? |
9-11 conspiracy theorists and what they seek.
Thank you Trevor for your post. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sleepy in Seoul
Joined: 15 May 2004
Location: Going in ever decreasing circles until I eventually disappear up my own fundament - in NZ
|
| Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 6:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
| bacasper wrote: |
| I know of no way other than violent revolution. |
It's already been done once. Mind you, it would have failed without help from the French.
| visitorq wrote: |
| Well, first you'd have to bring along a stronger army than the one the US govt has at its disposal. |
Oh, I don't know. The U.S. hasn't shown itself to be particularly adept at winning wars on its own for a while. Unless you are a few teenage pirates. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BS.Dos.
Joined: 29 Mar 2007
|
| Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 8:45 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Mobilization. decentralization. Heineken. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
|
| Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 9:43 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| Let me pose the question from another angle. In a parliamentary government, there is a system in which a vote of no confidence can be given and the government is automatically dissolved. Apparently, there is no such safety valve within the U.S. government's constitution. In a case in which the government fails egregiously in its duties to protect its citizen's and uphold its own laws, what legal, nonviolent means do ordinary citizens have at their disposal to seek the orderly dissolution of their government, as in a parliamentary system of government? |
There are three methods included in the Constitution to achieve this end:
1. Regularly scheduled and staggered elections: the entire House of Representatives + 1/3 of the Senate every two years and the presidency every 4.
2. Impeachment and removal from office for 'high crimes and misdemeanors', not just policy disagreements
3. The amending process is available, though normally reserved for issues of the basic rules by which we are governed, not transitory issues of the day. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mole
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Act III
|
| Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 10:32 am Post subject: |
|
|
| visitorq wrote: |
| Well, first you'd have to bring along a stronger army than the one the US govt has at its disposal. In other words, it ain't gonna happen... |
At its disposal>? Hell. They just alienated all of them calling them potential domestic terrorists. A couple of them are pissed off about that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UubECBdVqc&feature=channel_page
for the tinfoil brigade: Is this self fulfilling prophecy? Or master plan? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Trevor
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
|
| Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 11:58 am Post subject: |
|
|
Here's the issue: as we have seen, it's possible for the U.S. government to attack its own population with impunity. The U.S. constitution has no remedy. Yes, we can hold elections, but it is mathematically possible to remove roughly only one third of our representatives at any given time. Obviously, in a situation in which citizens are being attacked, this is totally inadequate.
Perhaps the answer is an amendment to the constitution which stipulates that it is possible for the ENTIRE governing body to be dissolved and new elections be held immediately. The result? Representatives would be much less likely to collude in an attack on their own people if they knew it was possible for them to be removed on short notice en masse through organized elections. It seems to me that such a mechanism is perfectly in keeping with the spirit of a 'government by the people, for the people.
In my opinion, such an amendment would be a much more sensible goal for the 9/11 Truth Movement. Right now, the concensus in the truth movement seems to be that what we need is another investigation.....
Bwaaahhhhaaaaa!!!!
The government that attacked us is going to investigate itself again and find itself guilty this time? It isn't too hard to see that that is a ridiculous and ineffectual goal. The real goal should be an amendment to the constitution in which broader powers are provided to the American people to protect themselves from a rogue government, with a legal, nonviolent means of removing that government, if it be the will of the people. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 12:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| this should be moved to the 9/11 sticky. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mole
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Act III
|
| Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 12:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| bucheon bum wrote: |
| this should be moved to the 9/11 sticky. |
No, it shouldn't. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dporter
Joined: 26 Apr 2009
|
| Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 2:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Trevor wrote: |
| Yes, we can hold elections, but it is mathematically possible to remove roughly only one third of our representatives at any given time. Obviously, in a situation in which citizens are being attacked, this is totally inadequate. |
Wrong.
The entire House of Representatives is up for election every 2 years. 1/3 of the Senate is up for election every 2 years. So, in any given election you could overthrow the entire House and 1/3 of the Senate. Plus numerous local and statewide judges and officials. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
|
| Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 5:41 pm Post subject: Re: Question about overthrowing the U.S. Government |
|
|
| Trevor wrote: |
| Under what circumstances do ordinary citizens have a legal right to seek the dissolution of their own government? |
I'm not sure this is something international law meaningfully deals with. As far as I'm aware, it's always been more of a "If you can succeed, go ahead. If you fail, you're at the mercy of the government you just tried and failed to depose," rather than rights issue. Revolts against governments happen with some frequency in the modern day, and we generally don't see international peace keeping forces moving in to undo their results. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
