Korean Job Discussion Forums

[RufusW]

Here it comes..... (woop!)

A video clip of Reid announcing it, with a little roundup:
http://crooksandliars.com/john-amato/harry-reid-puts-public-option-bill-stat

Interestingly, the 'opt-out' may well save the GOP from themselves. If the public option is successful there's no way the electorate will want it taken away. The Republicans will have to endorse it in some way, even if just be ignoring it. It'll shift the whole GOP towards the centre. Ironic?

[Street Magic]

Sounds like they're going to try to go with the state opt out plan. I almost prefer this to a straight up universally accessible public option in that it'll provide a neat opportunity for fairly direct comparisons to be drawn in assessing the success of either setup, assuming some states do opt out. Of course, it'll also allow interests on either side of the debate to make faulty comparisons skewed by variables unrelated to the public option, but this still seems like we're headed in the right direction overall, speaking as someone who supports socialized health care in the US. Although I have some reservations about the further consolidation of medical records, I think of health care as an area like education or law enforcement where we'd probably be better off treating it as a public service rather than as a business.

[Rusty Shackleford]

The opt out is baloney. Why would the individual states opt out when they are chipping in anyway? You are paying in through taxes but not trying to claw back some of that money.

[Street Magic]

[Rusty Shackleford]

[Street Magic]

[Fox]

[RufusW]

Rusty, presumably states who opt-out wouldn't require their citizens to pay whatever federal tax is involved.

There is the question about what happens to those who are too poor to afford it. Obviously they'll still get the same (state financed) welfare they get now, but presumably they get bumped up slightly to the coverage of the PO.

Waiting on the details....

[Street Magic]

[RufusW]

I was really referring to medical welfare and state as in federal (and state). There is a minimal level (emergency care) but people at this level with be upgraded to the public option; I presume there needs to be exra money and it'll come from somewhere.

[Street Magic]

@ Rusty: I think the best reference points in guessing how the public option will turn out would be in checking out how Medicaid and Medicare work. My guess is that despite the frequent comparisons to Medicare that have been going on throughout this debate, the public option will probably be funded in the same way Medicaid has been assuming the public option will have the state opt out setup. If this is the case, there would be federal matching for states which choose to participate, although the states that opt out would still stand to benefit in the way that a poker player might benefit from folding despite having been made to put up the ante. Taxes would go up, but the added tax burden wouldn't be anywhere near the cost any state participating in the plan would have to pitch in. It'd be pretty ridiculous if they were to set up a state opt out system where opting out wouldn't have any sort of effect on the cost required from the states that choose to do so.

[ontheway]

Insurers make very little money as it is. The increased regulation and mandated coverages will cause rates to quickly double - again.

The cost of health care (not insurance) is already double due to government regulations and mandates. These regulations on providers actually reduce quality and availability while making costs higher. This of course doubles the cost of insurance.

The required coverages of insurance for unneeded coverages, or coverage of expense items that are not properly part of insurance has caused an addional 5 fold increase in rates. Insurance today costs 10 times what it would in a free market.

But, the fascist-socialists have no interest in reality or in making health care better, more affordable, or improving access. They want power and control for themselves, and they want to scoop out some of the trillions of dollars they can funnel through the government and keep it for themselves and their cronies and supporters. This is what national health care legislation is about. This is what the fascist-socialist Democrat party is about.

The truth is that insurance companies do a good job and make very little while attempting to survive the onslaught of the fascist-socialist ruling elite:

[mises]

Ontheway, you know the CEO of United Health was paid a 1billion bonus?

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2006/07/10/8380799/index.htm

This fits nicely into a very big problem in the United States. Shareholder decisions are held by large institutions who behave in a nepotistic manner seeking only short term gain and the expense of long term performance and stability. Also, naked short selling allows Hedge Funds and others to influence shareholder votes by creating counterfeit shares before votes. The whole system is corrupt to the core and we (as diehard capitalists) can't fault the people who looking at a disgusting system with disgust and demanding major reforms. Us libertarians have allowed our faith in the market to be manipulated by large market participants in the financial services industry (of which insurance is included).

[ontheway]

[mises]