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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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 Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 10:52 am Post subject: Conrad Black on the US penal system and War on Drugs |
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http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2010/07/31/conrad-black-my-prison-education/
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It had been an interesting experience, from which I developed a much greater practical knowledge than I had ever had before of those who had drawn a short straw from the system; of the realities of street level American race relations; of the pathology of incorrigible criminals; and of the wasted opportunities for the reintegration of many of these people into society. I saw at close range the failure of the U.S. War on Drugs, with absurd sentences, (including 20 years for marijuana offences, although 42% of Americans have used marijuana and it is the greatest cash crop in California.) A trillion dollars have been spent, a million easily replaceable small fry are in prison, and the targeted substances are more available and of better quality than ever, while producing countries such as Colombia and Mexico are in a state of civil war.
I had seen at close range the injustice of sentences one hundred times more severe for crack cocaine than for powder cocaine, a straight act of discrimination against African-Americans, that even the first black president and attorney general have only ameliorated with tepid support for a measure, still being debated, to reduce the disparity of sentence from 100 to one to 18 to one.
And I had heard the vehement allegations of many fellow residents of the fraudulence of the public defender system, where court-appointed lawyers, it is universally and plausibly alleged, are more often than not stooges of the prosecutors. They are paid for the number of clients they represent rather than for their level of success, and they do usually plead their clients to prison. They provide a thin veneer for the fable of the poor citizen�s day in court to receive impartial justice through due process.
And I had the opportunity to see why the United States has six to twelve times as many incarcerated people as other prosperous democracies, (Australia, Canada, France, Germany, Japan, and the United Kingdom), how the prison industry grew, and successfully sought more prisoners, longer sentences, and maximal possibilities of probation violations and a swift return to custody.
Before I got into the maw of the U.S. legal system, I did not realize the country has 47 million people with a criminal record, (most for relatively trivial offenses,) or that prosecutors won more than 90% of their cases. There, at Coleman, I had seen the courage of self-help, the pathos of broken men, the drawn faces of the hopeless, the glazed expression of the heavily medicated, (90% of Americans judged to require confinement for psychiatric reasons are in the prison system), and the nonchalance of those who find prison a comfortable welfare system compared to the skid row that was their former milieu. America�s 2.4 million prisoners, and millions more awaiting trial or on supervised release, are an ostracized, voiceless legion of the walking dead; they are no one�s constituency. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 10:35 pm Post subject: |
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This is a great thread topic mith. I'm a bit disappointed that no other posters have taken it up. Though I have nothing to add to it, for now...
I learnt the other day that more than one in a hundred of America's population are in gaol. Quite incredible. |
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Mosley
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 3:07 am Post subject: |
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I must confess my ambivalence regarding "Lord" Black...undeniably a brilliant guy, born with the proverbial ''silver spoon in his mouth''...and yet with the attributes of a sociopath.
He will be the subject of books, articles, etc., decades after his death.... |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 7:50 am Post subject: |
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| undeniably a brilliant guy |
I believe his book on Maurice Duplessis was, and possibly still is, regarded as the standard.
As well, he occassionally expresses opinions that are somewhat other than what you would expect from a millionaire right-wing ideologue. He's defended FDR against the charge of selling out Eastern Europe(His basic argument could be summed up as "Well, what the hell was Roosevelt supposed to do? Declare World War III against the Russians?") And he's also written that between FDR and Churchill, he regards the former as the greater statesman(not exactly the most common opinion among conservatives).
But yeah, he commited some pretty serious crimes, and I can't say I was unhappy to see him a do a bit of jail time. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 9:44 am Post subject: Re: Conrad Black on the US penal system and War on Drugs |
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| mithridates wrote: |
http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2010/07/31/conrad-black-my-prison-education/
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| And I had heard the vehement allegations of many fellow residents of the fraudulence of the public defender system, where court-appointed lawyers, it is universally and plausibly alleged, are more often than not stooges of the prosecutors. They are paid for the number of clients they represent rather than for their level of success, and they do usually plead their clients to prison. They provide a thin veneer for the fable of the poor citizen�s day in court to receive impartial justice through due process. |
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I want to stand up for the PDs here. They do NOT take those positions for the money. Yes, they have too large a caseload which encourages them to plead out many cases, but some of them know and practice the law really well and will fight for their client if innocent.
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| And I had the opportunity to see why the United States has six to twelve times as many incarcerated people as other prosperous democracies, (Australia, Canada, France, Germany, Japan, and the United Kingdom), |
Not only does the US have the highest rate of incarceration of its citizens, she incarcerates her blacks at a rate higher than apartheid South Africa! 
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| Before I got into the maw of the U.S. legal system, I did not realize the country has 47 million people with a criminal record, (most for relatively trivial offenses,) |
I know a bunch of stats, but that one is new to me. That is one out of six people, and probably one out of four adults.
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| America�s 2.4 million prisoners, and millions more awaiting trial or on supervised release, are an ostracized, voiceless legion of the walking dead; they are no one�s constituency. |
| Big Bird wrote: |
| I learnt the other day that more than one in a hundred of America's population are in gaol. Quite incredible. |
Well, in gaol, or under supervision (parole, probation, offender programs, awaiting trial/sentencing) but, yeah, it's true. |
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Koveras
Joined: 09 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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| What a narcissist. Still, it can't hurt. |
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The Happy Warrior
Joined: 10 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 2:56 am Post subject: Re: Conrad Black on the US penal system and War on Drugs |
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| bacasper wrote: |
| mithridates wrote: |
http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2010/07/31/conrad-black-my-prison-education/
| Quote: |
| And I had heard the vehement allegations of many fellow residents of the fraudulence of the public defender system, where court-appointed lawyers, it is universally and plausibly alleged, are more often than not stooges of the prosecutors. They are paid for the number of clients they represent rather than for their level of success, and they do usually plead their clients to prison. They provide a thin veneer for the fable of the poor citizen�s day in court to receive impartial justice through due process. |
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I want to stand up for the PDs here. They do NOT take those positions for the money. Yes, they have too large a caseload which encourages them to plead out many cases, but some of them know and practice the law really well and will fight for their client if innocent. |
Its hard to tell if Conrad Black is talking about PDs or court-appointed Criminal Justice Act hires.
Public Defenders get better marks
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Some poor people accused of federal crimes are represented by full-time federal public defenders who earn salaries, others by court-appointed lawyers who bill by the hour. A new study from an economist at Harvard says there is a surprisingly wide gap in how well the two groups perform.
Both kinds of lawyers are paid by the government, and they were long thought to perform about equally. But the study concludes that lawyers paid by the hour are less qualified and let cases drag on and achieve worse results for their clients, including sentences that average eight months longer.
Appointed lawyers also cost taxpayers $61 million a year more than salaried public defenders would have cost.
There are many possible reasons for the differences in performance. Salaried public defenders generally handle more cases and have more interactions with prosecutors, so they may have a better sense of what they can negotiate for their clients. Salaried lawyers also tend to have superior credentials and more legal experience, the study found. |
Note that the study was done on the Federal level. An earlier study (also referenced in the article) found:
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court-appointed lawyers were slightly more likely to take cases to trial and slightly more likely to lose |
The exception to this would be in the field of immigration law. Apparently court-appointed lawyers may marginally reduce their clients' sentences.
The PD's stronger connections to prosecutors that apparently motivates may actually help their clients. So, PDs are cheaper, and more effective. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 6:16 am Post subject: |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
| This is a great thread topic mith. I'm a bit disappointed that no other posters have taken it up. |
It's been discussed to death on Dave's.
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CB had to experience the system to ponder and judge it. Too bad. Especially when the Harper government is going all law and order on the country now. Bring back the Liberals already. |
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catman
Joined: 18 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Yeah, the Conservatives want to spend $9 Billion on new prisions while crime continues to decline. |
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