Korean Job Discussion Forums

[oldfatfarang]

It's time to go - and time for reflection on another year teaching PS.
I'm sick at the moment (flue/cold??), so for today's HS 2nd year I gave the K teacher some instructions for a vocab game.

I went and hid in the office (adjacent to the classroom). I heard the co-teacher deliver a flawless lesson in English - from instructions, right through the lesson - to recap. Not one word out of place. Every single word in English. I heard a students ask why she was speaking in English, and she replied: "This is your English conversation class."

This begs the question: "What have I been doing here all year?" I've taught with about 20 co-teachers (in 2 PS), and they have all spoken English perfectly.

When will Korea stop paying 2 salaries for 1 job???

[TheUrbanMyth]

[D.D.]

hahahahahhahahahahahahahahahaha .... nice troll I guess you got the two good Korean English speakers.

[oldfatfarang]

Sorry to disappoint you guys. But I wasn't trolling. I was reflecting. I'm leaving in 11 days, and was wondering why I've been employed at this public/private school. All my co-teachers speak English very well, and with a good TEFL course, they'd make me redundant.

[andrewchon]

How about 60,000,000 won government funding for employing you so that the Korean kids can have fun with oldfatfarang.

[TheUrbanMyth]

[oldfatfarang]

Well, I guess it's not impossible for Korean co-teachers to speak English well. They sure do at my school. Maybe because it's private??? Who knows.

I still think that with a good TEFL course in communicative English under their belts, my co-teachers could have made me redundant. Even though they say they need me "for the older teachers."

There's no trouble with speaking English at my school, it's just that the co-teachers aren't trained in communicative teaching. They only know how to prepare kids for tests.

I'm sure there must be other GET's out there that have co-teachers with good English speaking skills. Heck, I have daily conversations with one of my co-teachers on all sorts of topics (world and Korean economy, social justice, you name it). Surely he's not that unusual.

[ThingsComeAround]

OFF, I'd have to disagree with you.
I believe that in the future, with some creativity and effort, Koreans may learn how to speak and teach English to their own in public schools.
However, at this point, I don't think it is "at the level" where it should be.
UrbanMyth, I believe that most of the best speakers of English are not working in our industry. Makes me sad that he HAVE to follow the book or goto an open class with some tool that has been around awhile with the same stale material. I've mentioned this to friends, is English ed were to ever improve, they would have to offer something else so kids that DONT WANT TO BE THERE don't have to. Give the kids a choice? Not likely to happen for a few years...

[Epicurus]

at my school, 2 of my coteachers definitely do not have the level of English necessary to conduct their own classes.

Oh, they could... don't get me wrong.. and definitely for low level students.. but it'd be replete with errors and bad pronounciation.

my handler on the other hand... her mistakes are minor enough in my mind and I think she could do it alone (however, she spent 9 months in Canada)

[The Gipkik]

I take a much more philosophical approach to this future dilemma. If my coteachers ever reach the point where they are speaking near fluent English and putting together great lesson plans that are engaging the students, filling them with enthusiasm, and getting them to speak English--even outside of the classroom--I'd be very happy to leave. Can't see that day coming anytime soon. I also can't see the students ever wanting to speak English to a Korean teacher outside of the class. It just doesn't make any sense. Students are forever hailing me in the halls, on the school grounds, even on the streets and saying a few words of English. This alone makes our jobs indispensable.

[Perceptioncheck]

[frankly speaking]

I think that the only thing that I hated with the Public School system in Korea was that I didn't have Autonomy in my classroom. I agree that a Korea teacher fluent in English has no need for a pronunciation monkey. I will never teach in the public school jobs in Korea ever again. I prefer Hagwons 1000 times more. Though there might be more conflict with management, I have always been allowed to create and utilize a curriculum that suited the students needs.

Seeing a group of 50 students 2 times a week was a waist of my time. The curriculum that I was forced to follow wasn't appropriate for the size of class or the strengths of a native speaker.

I do not think that any non native speaker will ever be as good as an educated native speaker. There will always be 1st language interference either with grammar, pronunciation, structure or style. My wife even being western educated with a PhD, still makes common mistakes from time to time. In my 6 years teaching in Korea, I have never met a single Korean that I thought had perfect English apart from Kyopos. I have met many that had good communicative ability and were articulate but I always had to overlook many common mistakes.

I think the problem with Old Fart is that he is just that and old fart. Who has lowered his standard on what perfect ability means. Many of the old timer teachers that have not lived in their native country, have lost their standard on what naturally spoken English should sound like. I know that when I travel with native English speakers, I am reminded how bad the English is that I hear every day.

When I learned foreign languages in the US, I wouldn't be too happy to know that my teacher made mistakes with articles and other simple punctuation. All of my teachers were either native speakers of that language or had lived in that country for many years.

I don't think that Korean students should expect anything less from their teachers. Personally I don't think that Korean teachers in general aren't even close to teaching classes without native speakers

[Perceptioncheck]

[T-J]

[oldfatfarang]

Last words from an old fart. I can empathise with the poster who said native speakers lose some of their language when they spend too much time abroad with non-native speakers. Indeed, many of us 'go native', so to speak. In fact, I'm leaving my current school, to enjoy a 6 month break which I know will help me keep my language, culture and customs.

No matter how much my 'perfect' English standards have dropped, I should note that my current school employed me to teach English Conversation - in a 'fun' style (their words, not mine).

I have 7 co-teachers here, and they all speak (and could teach) communicative English with few problems - if they were trained (and were receptive) to communicative teaching methods. I'm not too sure about their ability to make 'fun' classes though, but the need for 'fun' in teaching English is a whole nother debate. I also believe that communicative English is just that - communicative. I wasn't employed to produce grammar gurus or received pronunciation monkeys. Our English conversation classes were designed to get the kids speaking English.

I think that the writing is on the wall for GET's. The TEFL PS bubble must break, sometime. Surely, there are plenty of younger Korean teachers coming through that can speak (and could teach) English effectively. My school has just hired another Korean English teacher (through the Govt. teacher stimulus package), and she spoke English with me for 2 hours without any noticeable mistakes. She had a strong USA accent, and some of the kids had trouble understanding her - not because of her accent, but because she'd been speaking English with native-speakers, and not TEFL learners, so she hadn't learnt to slow down and micro-pause between words.

Anyway folks. Thanks for the debate. I'm off for a while. And back, maybe, in 6 months time (if I'm not considered too old to teach Englishee).