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ryoga013
Joined: 23 Nov 2008
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 Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 12:34 am Post subject: Korean Students Struggle at Ivy League Colleges |
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http://english.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2009/10/12/2009101200929.html
It's been driving me crazy thinking about all the lack of upbringing found at the "university" level here in Korea. I read this article and I felt it didn't even do the topic close to justice. It only talks about how ill-prepared students are etc but never focuses on the root of those problems.
The one stat that stuck in my head was the only 56 percent graduated while the rest dropped out, Is anyone familiar with "Running Start" or other such programs where high schoolers may enroll in university classes for dual credit? that's about the same percentage of drop-outs. Just interesting, I wonder how closely they would correlate if put under a microscope. |
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fermentation
Joined: 22 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 12:40 am Post subject: |
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| I went to a small state University in the US and I sometimes helped other Korean students with their work. The one thing they seemed to struggle with the most was the concept of citing sources and proving that they didn't plagiarize. I could only imagine how much more strict an Ivy league school would be. |
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Clockout
Joined: 23 Feb 2009
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| Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 12:45 am Post subject: |
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Although I'm not hanging out with Ivy caliber people, I haven't met any Koreans with a command of English strong enough to successfully complete American university level courses (without a lot of leeway from professors sympathetic to their situation.)
Thinking back on the papers I struggled through in college I just can't imagine many Koreans able to meet the writing standards and I was far from Ivy league.
My co-teacher studied at one of the lesser Ivies as an exchange student and I just don't believe she truly met their standards. Of course most universitys love bringing in foreign students to diversify their student body but I don't think it does the students any favors if they aren't on par with their native-speaking classmates. |
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fustiancorduroy
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 12:58 am Post subject: |
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| Clockout wrote: |
| Although I'm not hanging out with Ivy caliber people, I haven't met any Koreans with a command of English strong enough to successfully complete American university level courses (without a lot of leeway from professors sympathetic to their situation.) |
There are some, mainly the students at the best foreign language high schools. My best students at the top-tier FLHS I taught at definitely had the command of English necessary to go to top US universities, and many of them did, successfully. In fact, I'd wager that their English was better than at least 50% of the people who post on this site. Of the 56% of Korean students who DO graduate from Ivy League schools, I'm willing to bet most of them come from the best FLHSs. |
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Hightop
Joined: 11 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 1:03 am Post subject: |
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| I was reading this story that is linked to the one the OP is talking about http://english.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2008/04/03/2008040361016.html The reporting in this story is just wack. Lines like this are just wrong " Korean students topped the list with 29, also followed by Chinese (27) and Indians (21)" I hate Korea's obsession with trying to be number 1 all the time but lying about it is even worse. All one has to do is go to the Yale international students page and view their report http://www.yale.edu/oiss/about/reports/2007/annualreport07.pdf you can see clearly that China has the most international students with 300 and Canada second with 215. Korea has 152 students. But if Korea does really want to be number 1 they can claim to have 42.5% of all of Yale's international students in the School of Divinity^^ |
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freethought
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 1:12 am Post subject: |
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| Hightop wrote: |
| I was reading this story that is linked to the one the OP is talking about http://english.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2008/04/03/2008040361016.html The reporting in this story is just wack. Lines like this are just wrong " Korean students topped the list with 29, also followed by Chinese (27) and Indians (21)" I hate Korea's obsession with trying to be number 1 all the time but lying about it is even worse. All one has to do is go to the Yale international students page and view their report http://www.yale.edu/oiss/about/reports/2007/annualreport07.pdf you can see clearly that China has the most international students with 300 and Canada second with 215. Korea has 152 students. But if Korea does really want to be number 1 they can claim to have 42.5% of all of Yale's international students in the School of Divinity^^ |
In my research I have found that Korean news articles often apply whatever formula/number that will work to make their case, but don't always define their methods for arriving at that number. Using the Yale numbers as a non-applied example (ie, not this case, just an example), they may have wanted to say that Korea has the highest number per capita from Asia. They don't match/beat Canada per capita.
My favourite example of one of these stats was when they claimed that Korea was worth more than Canada (if anyone really wants the article I can probably find it). Canada's oil reserves (not natural gas, just oil) are worth more than the value listed for Korea in the article. |
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morrisonhotel
Joined: 18 Jul 2009
Location: Gyeonggi-do
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| Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 2:09 am Post subject: |
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| Clockout wrote: |
| Although I'm not hanging out with Ivy caliber people, I haven't met any Koreans with a command of English strong enough to successfully complete American university level courses (without a lot of leeway from professors sympathetic to their situation.) |
Part of the problem, I suspect, is the ability of some students to pay the fees. I was contemplating graduate study in the US and was put off by a)how expensive the courses were and b) how little funding there is for international students (though this, I believe, is changing rather rapidly). If an international student won't get funding from the university and can afford to pay the fees then chances are they will be admitted. There were two Japanese females on my M.A. course who, though perfectly intelligent, should not have been there as they really lacked a sufficient command of the language. |
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Trevor
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 2:20 am Post subject: |
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I guess a lot of people don't realize this, but it really isn't that difficult to coast through an Ivy League college with C's. There's an old and very true saying:
The hardest thing about Harvard is getting in.
The Hardest thing about MIT is getting out.
A person of slightly below average intelligence can coast through Harvard with B's and C's. Many do (Did I hear someone say athlete/alum donor parent?)
My top students could easily coast through Ivy undergrad. I really don't get why the failure rate is so high, other than they are just accepting the wrong kids. |
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calicoe
Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 2:34 am Post subject: |
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| Trevor wrote: |
I guess a lot of people don't realize this, but it really isn't that difficult to coast through an Ivy League college with C's. There's an old and very true saying:
The hardest thing about Harvard is getting in.
The Hardest thing about MIT is getting out.
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I can confirm that quote, first-hand, lol. However, both are excellent institutions. They just have different academic approaches. There were plenty of smart and qualified people from Asia and Korea in both institutions. Everyone has their comparative advantages. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 2:53 am Post subject: |
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Anyone else chuckle at the 'Related Article' that says "Expat Students Fall Between Two Linguistic Stools."?
Lotsa people crap out at college these days. Meh. |
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calicoe
Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 3:01 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, that link is hilarious. But, I think it is worrisome when combined with this one:
Korean Youth Study Longest Hours in OECD
Korean youth study an average of three hours more per day than adolescents in 30 other OECD member countries, or 15 hours more per week, according to a report released by the Ministry of Health, Welfare and Family Affairs on Thursday. On the other hand, they sleep one hour less compared to their counterparts in five countries -- the U.S., the U.K., Sweden, Finland and Germany -- and exercise 22 minutes less. |
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freethought
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 3:25 am Post subject: |
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| calicoe wrote: |
Yeah, that link is hilarious. But, I think it is worrisome when combined with this one:
Korean Youth Study Longest Hours in OECD
Korean youth study an average of three hours more per day than adolescents in 30 other OECD member countries, or 15 hours more per week, according to a report released by the Ministry of Health, Welfare and Family Affairs on Thursday. On the other hand, they sleep one hour less compared to their counterparts in five countries -- the U.S., the U.K., Sweden, Finland and Germany -- and exercise 22 minutes less. |
I saw that article this morning. Every time I bringing up my research I have people attack me, but might as well step unto the breach one more time.
If you take the difference from G1-12 between Korean and Canadian students, Koreans will spend approximately 85% more time studying than their Canadian counter parts over the course of the 12 years. |
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Old Gil
Joined: 26 Sep 2009
Location: Got out! olleh!
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| Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 5:23 am Post subject: |
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| freethought wrote: |
I saw that article this morning. Every time I bringing up my research I have people attack me, but might as well step unto the breach one more time.
If you take the difference from G1-12 between Korean and Canadian students, Koreans will spend approximately 85% more time studying than their Canadian counter parts over the course of the 12 years. |
Good lord. Harder, not smarter. |
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Konglishman
Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Location: Nanjing
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| Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 5:50 am Post subject: |
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| fustiancorduroy wrote: |
| Clockout wrote: |
| Although I'm not hanging out with Ivy caliber people, I haven't met any Koreans with a command of English strong enough to successfully complete American university level courses (without a lot of leeway from professors sympathetic to their situation.) |
There are some, mainly the students at the best foreign language high schools. My best students at the top-tier FLHS I taught at definitely had the command of English necessary to go to top US universities, and many of them did, successfully. In fact, I'd wager that their English was better than at least 50% of the people who post on this site. Of the 56% of Korean students who DO graduate from Ivy League schools, I'm willing to bet most of them come from the best FLHSs. |
Don't forget about Korean students attending international schools... |
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pkang0202
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 7:51 am Post subject: |
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| My University had some absurd graduation rate. Something like, only 24% of incoming Freshmen graduated within 4 years. |
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