|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Yunseung
Joined: 02 Oct 2009
|
 Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:39 am Post subject: F4 Visa |
 |
|
Hey everyone! It's my first time posting in this forum!
Here's the down low: I'm an American born Korean American that obtained an F4 visa through the Korean Consulate. I've went to college for 4 years but because I switched my major midway, my credits did not transfer properly. Though most EFL teachers need to obtain the E2 visa in order to get a teaching job in Korea, I was wondering what is required in order to obtain a job through an F4 visa.
The thing is, I've already went through the trouble of getting my EFL teaching certification from the TEFL institute. I have the Certificate on me plus I have a letter of recommendation (which my school has graciously written for me). In addition, I have obtained 20+ hours of classroom observation and student teaching. Plus, I have trained in one on one teacher to student tutoring. The certification provides up to 60 CPDU credit hours in my behalf.
What must I do in order to successfully obtain a job in Korea? I've sent out multiple resumes but it seems that most places really just want someone that is a blonde haired blue eyed white Anglo-Saxon American. Also, a great majority of my relatives are urging me to pretend that I know absolutely no Korean. I've gotten numerous calls from unknown numbers that immediately hang up the minute I answer in Korean. If I call them back, they immediately hang up...
Is it really this difficult? Isn't this ethically known as "racist"?
I mean, I speak Korean very well. My relatives always tell me that I've been raised perfectly since I can speak so fluently. I have no accent when I am speaking English or Korean!
Can anyone help me out? What's the deal here? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
andrewchon
Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Location: Back in Oz. Living in ISIS Aust.
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 11:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
ESL Teachers are hired mostly by the demands of the tuition payers.
Reality is what you've seen so far. F-4 bilinguals are not much in demand.
Simple way is for you to apply to GEPIK and tell them you want to teach in rural area. If that sounds terrible, it may well be. There are people like you teaching in cities but are fairly rare. Don't bother hiding that you speak Korean. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
red_devil
Joined: 30 Jun 2008
Location: Korea
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 5:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| If you speak Korean "very" well and you have a degree, WTH are you doing in Korea teaching at all? Why not try to get a "real" job? There are plenty of companies in many industries that would hire you especially with bi-lingual fluency especially companies that deal internationally. Sorry if that comes off as harsh but i meet a lot of gyopos that have qualifications to get a job here in Korea but choose not too because they're either too scared or too lazy to enter into the real workforce. They just come to make easy money and party...not saying you're one of those people though, jes saying. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
broken76
Joined: 27 Jan 2008
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 5:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I recommend for F4 holders to come to Korea and get a job directly. The positions that are held by most recruiters and also the jobs advertised are looking for a foreign teacher (caucasian).
There are schools that are looking for teachers just like you but they don't advertise through the same channels as they do when looking for a foreign teacher.
As an F4 you're looking at less benefits, higher pay and usually a higher workload. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lovebug
Joined: 29 Apr 2009
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 5:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
i'm on f4 and i work in the public schools. SMOE and GEPIK are much more likely to hire non-caucasians. when i was applying, i found that most hagwons not only had a problem with my race, but the fact that i had an f4 and not an e2. f4s are considered dangerous bc we can leave the job anytime and get a new job without leaving the country or changing our visa. i was told by one school that i wouldn't get a flight if i had an f4. most schools don't care if you're bilingual.
i strongly second the above poster about getting nonteaching work. an f4 can be a great advantage... there are great opportunities that pays much better than any teaching job.... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Yunseung
Joined: 02 Oct 2009
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:20 am Post subject: |
|
|
ESL Teachers are hired mostly by the demands of the tuition payers.
Reality is what you've seen so far. F-4 bilinguals are not much in demand.
Simple way is for you to apply to GEPIK and tell them you want to teach in rural area. If that sounds terrible, it may well be. There are people like you teaching in cities but are fairly rare. Don't bother hiding that you speak Korean.
I don't mind Rural areas. This is good information. Thanks 
If you speak Korean "very" well and you have a degree, WTH are you doing in Korea teaching at all? Why not try to get a "real" job? There are plenty of companies in many industries that would hire you especially with bi-lingual fluency especially companies that deal internationally. Sorry if that comes off as harsh but i meet a lot of gyopos that have qualifications to get a job here in Korea but choose not too because they're either too scared or too lazy to enter into the real workforce. They just come to make easy money and party...not saying you're one of those people though, jes saying.
Actually, My eldest cousin offered me a job in his own firm. They sell Musical instruments. Interested? It's a USB integrated system that has the capacity to emulate "pure sound". AKA, Digital music in its purest form (without the wishy washy karaoke effects). They're simple products (and cheap!) with a very awesome user-friendly interface. I can get you a brochure if you'd like one. They're heading to Shanghai for a convention this weekend.
However, I really just want to teach. It's not the money that's important... Really, I just want that teaching experience.
I recommend for F4 holders to come to Korea and get a job directly. The positions that are held by most recruiters and also the jobs advertised are looking for a foreign teacher (caucasian).
There are schools that are looking for teachers just like you but they don't advertise through the same channels as they do when looking for a foreign teacher.
As an F4 you're looking at less benefits, higher pay and usually a higher workload.
This is good to know. Thank you very much. I'll be looking in other places. The Info about GEPIK andrewchon provided will come in handy.
i'm on f4 and i work in the public schools. SMOE and GEPIK are much more likely to hire non-caucasians. when i was applying, i found that most hagwons not only had a problem with my race, but the fact that i had an f4 and not an e2. f4s are considered dangerous bc we can leave the job anytime and get a new job without leaving the country or changing our visa. i was told by one school that i wouldn't get a flight if i had an f4. most schools don't care if you're bilingual.
i strongly second the above poster about getting nonteaching work. an f4 can be a great advantage... there are great opportunities that pays much better than any teaching job....
It's good to know that I can recieve better pay as a bilingual worker rather than an English teacher. I'll look into SMOE. Also, F4 visas provide us with that kind of power? Jesus, that's good to know!
I whole heartedly appreciate all of your inputs. I actually did not expect good news from any angle but this... Just wow.
What's the next step? I know this is something I could technically do on my own but I'm kinda being lazy about it. Besides, some feedback from those of you experienced teachers would be very valuable and overall for my own good.
What is GEPIK like? Are they friendly? Strict? Assholes? Any feedback for them would be appreciated. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
andrewchon
Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Location: Back in Oz. Living in ISIS Aust.
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:47 am Post subject: |
|
|
Next Steps are:
1. Upload your resume/CV. Dave's or Serious Teachers or work'n play.
2. Start research. e.g. What is GEPIK?
GEPIK is Gyunggi-do English Program in Korea. It's a government agency that handles hiring of ESL teachers for the public schools in Gyunggi province. It does not include Seoul or Incheon City. They do fairly good work. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Yunseung
Joined: 02 Oct 2009
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Thanks. I've sent in an application. Wish me luck! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lovebug
Joined: 29 Apr 2009
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 12:46 am Post subject: |
|
|
you need to research a bit about what an f4 visa entitles you to exactly. it's very important that you know what your visa status allows. if schools get a whiff that you aren't in the know, they'll try to scam you.
SMOE and GEPIK are govt programs - they are the ones who back your contract at the end of the day. many people feel a little better that the govt is behind their contract, although with recent SMOE shenanigans, we're wondering if there's anyone who gets anyone's back anymore.
| Quote: |
| What is GEPIK like? Are they friendly? Strict? Assholes? |
your experience at SMOE or GEPIK will mostly depend on your school specifically, which can range from amazing to absolutely horrible. most of us don't deal with them directly unless there's a major problem that we need to take beyond our coteachers and principals. you should be more concerned if the people you work for day to day are friendly or strict. and whatever school you get will be a crapshoot. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
smartwentcrazy
Joined: 26 Feb 2009
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 1:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
| red_devil wrote: |
| If you speak Korean "very" well and you have a degree, WTH are you doing in Korea teaching at all? Why not try to get a "real" job? There are plenty of companies in many industries that would hire you especially with bi-lingual fluency especially companies that deal internationally. Sorry if that comes off as harsh but i meet a lot of gyopos that have qualifications to get a job here in Korea but choose not too because they're either too scared or too lazy to enter into the real workforce. They just come to make easy money and party...not saying you're one of those people though, jes saying. |
A "real job"? How does teaching upwards of 30+ classes a week not constituted as a "real job"? In fact, how does teaching itself not demand any more respect as a "real job" as opposed to one working in the business/corporate sector? If you don't consider teaching a "real job" then why are you even here?
You mention that you've met 'a lot of gyopos' who are bilingual and are perfectly capable of pursuing other career choices based on their qualifications, however, did it ever occur to you that many of these people are here to actually teach? I find almost every sentence of your post to be comically ironic, as my school had just replaced several of their Caucasian teachers with gyopos b/c they weren't actually here to teach, but to rather 'make easy money and party' as you put it.  Keep in mind that some people in Korea are actually here to TEACH and want do to so for the teaching experience. There are numerous incapable, underqualified teachers in Korea that are here for the wrong reasons (party, quick money, etc), but don't try to paint gyopos as the only group that perpetrate this behavior.
OP: The most important thing that schools want to see is if you've completed your 4-year degree (BA/BS). You mention that your credits didn't transfer successfully does that mean you haven't graduated yet or haven't completed the degree requirements? Despite your TEFL certificate, you will have a hard time getting a job w/o a bachelors. The job market right now is flooded with graduates that have a BA alongside a TEFL certification, and to be frank, I don't think many schools will even consider an applicant if they haven't graduated from a 4-year institution.
Although I shared your frustrations about the selectivity of schools in regards to Caucasian applicants, take everything in stride and know that this is not the case for most public schools. Private schools may differ, although I've heard of certain hagwons even preferring gyopos due to their bilingual capabilities. Don't consider your bilingualism a detriment to your resume, embrace it and use it to your advantage. As I stated earlier my school replaced several of the Caucasian teachers with gyopos b/c they had a harder time assimilating into Korean culture/customs as well as having to deal with the communication barriers that existed between the non-English speaking teachers. Therefore, they sought gyopo applicants who could not only speak English fluently, but also possess a general understanding of the Korean language and its customs. I would suggest that you use your bilingualism in situations that would warrant a healthier relationship with your fellow workers, however, I would stick to using English in the beginning so that they understand you're a native English speaker. If you have any questions, feel free to PM me. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rooster_2006
Joined: 14 Oct 2007
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 6:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
Well, let me put this in a (true) analogy for you. And I'm going to be really frank here, and you're probably not going to like it.
I'm a white person. And I speak great Korean.
I got KLPT Level 5 (advanced, 6,000+ words, university entrance level), a perfect 16/16 on the NYU Korean Language exam, and lived in Korea for five years. My Korean was so good just before I left Korea, I was offered a job as an interpreter between foreign sports players and Koreans. I am a graduate of Yonsei University Korean Language Institute, the preeminent Korean language institute in the world. Obviously my Korean is far better than the "English" that is taught by many Korean English teachers in Korea. What are my chances of ever teaching Korean in the US, as a white person? NIL. And do you see me crying about it? No.
"Oh boo-hoo, Korean learners in the US only want to learn from a black-haired, beige-skinned Mongoloid person, oh boo-hoo, oh the humanity!"
Suck it up. There are thousands of other sectors in the economy for you to choose from. That you have permanent residency in Korea just because of your "lineage" is "ethically" racism right there, working in your favor.
The only gyopos who have no choice but to teach English are those with absolutely no marketable skills whatsoever. After four years of uni, are you still that unskilled?
Seriously, why do so many gyopos, with so many possible job options, gravitate to the one sector of the Korean economy that doesn't want them? It's like watching flies hurling themselves toward those tennis-racket-like bug zappers that ajeosshis sell in the subway, year after year...
If you seriously have a passion for teaching a fairly boring language to screaming kids who don't want to learn, here are some suggestions:
1. Pretend you don't know Korean, as your relatives have already said, or look for gigs teaching adults where the students aren't being forced to learn English and the "you can't let them know you speak Korean" cop-out is invalid. It is NOT valued that you speak Korean, especially when teaching young kids. It is a liability. As wrong as this may be, it is considered YOUR fault if the kids don't speak English because you let the cat out of the bag that you speak Korean. I was actually fired from a kindergarten position for using too much Korean, and I am as white as they come.
2. Almost all Korean English teachers/employers laugh at 120-hour certifications. Doesn't matter if it's Dirty Bob's $29.99 Online TEFL Course or Cambridge University's CELTA/CELTYL -- they write it off as "some certificate that took less than a month." If you want to get into serious teaching, go for an MA TESOL. It only takes a year and opens the doors to all sorts of high-level things like uni gigs, curriculum design gigs, etc. And Korean teachers can't brush it off as "just some online course," because Koreans respect degrees. They do not respect certificates.
3. Get a year of REAL experience. EVERYONE puts on their resume that they did tutoring during college. Many Korean employers outright ignore part-time work done during one's studies. This might mean accepting a crappy screamwon position for a year and finishing the contract. It might mean doing a year teaching underprivileged children in Cambodia. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Yunseung
Joined: 02 Oct 2009
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 3:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
| smartwentcrazy wrote: |
| red_devil wrote: |
| If you speak Korean "very" well and you have a degree, WTH are you doing in Korea teaching at all? Why not try to get a "real" job? There are plenty of companies in many industries that would hire you especially with bi-lingual fluency especially companies that deal internationally. Sorry if that comes off as harsh but i meet a lot of gyopos that have qualifications to get a job here in Korea but choose not too because they're either too scared or too lazy to enter into the real workforce. They just come to make easy money and party...not saying you're one of those people though, jes saying. |
A "real job"? How does teaching upwards of 30+ classes a week not constituted as a "real job"? In fact, how does teaching itself not demand any more respect as a "real job" as opposed to one working in the business/corporate sector? If you don't consider teaching a "real job" then why are you even here?
You mention that you've met 'a lot of gyopos' who are bilingual and are perfectly capable of pursuing other career choices based on their qualifications, however, did it ever occur to you that many of these people are here to actually teach? I find almost every sentence of your post to be comically ironic, as my school had just replaced several of their Caucasian teachers with gyopos b/c they weren't actually here to teach, but to rather 'make easy money and party' as you put it. Keep in mind that some people in Korea are actually here to TEACH and want do to so for the teaching experience. There are numerous incapable, underqualified teachers in Korea that are here for the wrong reasons (party, quick money, etc), but don't try to paint gyopos as the only group that perpetrate this behavior.
OP: The most important thing that schools want to see is if you've completed your 4-year degree (BA/BS). You mention that your credits didn't transfer successfully does that mean you haven't graduated yet or haven't completed the degree requirements? Despite your TEFL certificate, you will have a hard time getting a job w/o a bachelors. The job market right now is flooded with graduates that have a BA alongside a TEFL certification, and to be frank, I don't think many schools will even consider an applicant if they haven't graduated from a 4-year institution.
Although I shared your frustrations about the selectivity of schools in regards to Caucasian applicants, take everything in stride and know that this is not the case for most public schools. Private schools may differ, although I've heard of certain hagwons even preferring gyopos due to their bilingual capabilities. Don't consider your bilingualism a detriment to your resume, embrace it and use it to your advantage. As I stated earlier my school replaced several of the Caucasian teachers with gyopos b/c they had a harder time assimilating into Korean culture/customs as well as having to deal with the communication barriers that existed between the non-English speaking teachers. Therefore, they sought gyopo applicants who could not only speak English fluently, but also possess a general understanding of the Korean language and its customs. I would suggest that you use your bilingualism in situations that would warrant a healthier relationship with your fellow workers, however, I would stick to using English in the beginning so that they understand you're a native English speaker. If you have any questions, feel free to PM me. |
Thanks for the info. Maybe hagwons and many other institutes aren't as hard to get in as others would say. I'll PM you shortly for more information 
Well, let me put this in a (true) analogy for you. And I'm going to be really frank here, and you're probably not going to like it.
I'm a white person. And I speak great Korean.
I got KLPT Level 5 (advanced, 6,000+ words, university entrance level), a perfect 16/16 on the NYU Korean Language exam, and lived in Korea for five years. My Korean was so good just before I left Korea, I was offered a job as an interpreter between foreign sports players and Koreans. I am a graduate of Yonsei University Korean Language Institute, the preeminent Korean language institute in the world. Obviously my Korean is far better than the "English" that is taught by many Korean English teachers in Korea. What are my chances of ever teaching Korean in the US, as a white person? NIL. And do you see me crying about it? No.
"Oh boo-hoo, Korean learners in the US only want to learn from a black-haired, beige-skinned Mongoloid person, oh boo-hoo, oh the humanity!"
Suck it up. There are thousands of other sectors in the economy for you to choose from. That you have permanent residency in Korea just because of your "lineage" is "ethically" racism right there, working in your favor.
The only gyopos who have no choice but to teach English are those with absolutely no marketable skills whatsoever. After four years of uni, are you still that unskilled?
Seriously, why do so many gyopos, with so many possible job options, gravitate to the one sector of the Korean economy that doesn't want them? It's like watching flies hurling themselves toward those tennis-racket-like bug zappers that ajeosshis sell in the subway, year after year...
If you seriously have a passion for teaching a fairly boring language to screaming kids who don't want to learn, here are some suggestions:
1. Pretend you don't know Korean, as your relatives have already said, or look for gigs teaching adults where the students aren't being forced to learn English and the "you can't let them know you speak Korean" cop-out is invalid. It is NOT valued that you speak Korean, especially when teaching young kids. It is a liability. As wrong as this may be, it is considered YOUR fault if the kids don't speak English because you let the cat out of the bag that you speak Korean. I was actually fired from a kindergarten position for using too much Korean, and I am as white as they come.
2. Almost all Korean English teachers/employers laugh at 120-hour certifications. Doesn't matter if it's Dirty Bob's $29.99 Online TEFL Course or Cambridge University's CELTA/CELTYL -- they write it off as "some certificate that took less than a month." If you want to get into serious teaching, go for an MA TESOL. It only takes a year and opens the doors to all sorts of high-level things like uni gigs, curriculum design gigs, etc. And Korean teachers can't brush it off as "just some online course," because Koreans respect degrees. They do not respect certificates.
3. Get a year of REAL experience. EVERYONE puts on their resume that they did tutoring during college. Many Korean employers outright ignore part-time work done during one's studies. This might mean accepting a crappy screamwon position for a year and finishing the contract. It might mean doing a year teaching underprivileged children in Cambodia.
It's great that you speak "great" Korean. Maybe you shouldn't teach Korean or any language of the sort but instead become an ambassador? CEO? A word of advice though. I would suggest you don't RAGE while replying to a serious question. I would prefer a more professional response.
And you're right. I didn't like your response. It wasn't because it was frank, but rather it was downright cruel. It really shows your intentions. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dossi
Joined: 19 Jun 2008
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 12:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I wish I can give you my job, but my contract finishes in December this year and told them I wanted to stay for a month more. So whoever they hire probably won't start until February.
Pity though, my supervisor asked me if I knew any bilingual gyopos,
I really don't know any. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
red_devil
Joined: 30 Jun 2008
Location: Korea
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 6:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| smartwentcrazy wrote: |
| red_devil wrote: |
| If you speak Korean "very" well and you have a degree, WTH are you doing in Korea teaching at all? Why not try to get a "real" job? There are plenty of companies in many industries that would hire you especially with bi-lingual fluency especially companies that deal internationally. Sorry if that comes off as harsh but i meet a lot of gyopos that have qualifications to get a job here in Korea but choose not too because they're either too scared or too lazy to enter into the real workforce. They just come to make easy money and party...not saying you're one of those people though, jes saying. |
A "real job"? How does teaching upwards of 30+ classes a week not constituted as a "real job"? In fact, how does teaching itself not demand any more respect as a "real job" as opposed to one working in the business/corporate sector? If you don't consider teaching a "real job" then why are you even here? |
Hours alone don't constitute a "real job". Then again that's why it's in quotes. It may be a job, but not a "real job". A "real teaching job" requires things like concentrated study and education, certification, experience working with kids, job training, internships, etc. A porn star that get's BJ's 20+ hours a week must then be working in a "real job" by your logic. Your self righteous indignation is respectable, really. A person that can just graduate with no job experience, a degree and 4 years of study that has nothing to do with teaching, jet off to Korea free, make more money than the average population "teaching" kids (or just playing with them and going through a lesson book) with no certification, no job training, no education degree, no teaching internship...is not considered working a "real job".
You make yourself look like an ass by assuming that:
1. Everyone that comes to Korea is here for teaching.
2. Everyone in Korea is a teacher.
I've done some tutoring, even subbed at a Hagwon before but i'm not a teacher, don't have illusions of being one, or convince myself that i'm working a "real job", and i had a career back home - and i have a career in Korea. Lucky me, and bitter you.
| Quote: |
You mention that you've met 'a lot of gyopos' who are bilingual and are perfectly capable of pursuing other career choices based on their qualifications, however, did it ever occur to you that many of these people are here to actually teach? I find almost every sentence of your post to be comically ironic, as my school had just replaced several of their Caucasian teachers with gyopos b/c they weren't actually here to teach, but to rather 'make easy money and party' as you put it. Keep in mind that some people in Korea are actually here to TEACH and want do to so for the teaching experience. There are numerous incapable, underqualified teachers in Korea that are here for the wrong reasons (party, quick money, etc), but don't try to paint gyopos as the only group that perpetrate this behavior.
|
I never said even once that gyopos are the ONLY group that perpetrates this "behavior". And i do know, because every gyopo i've met has TOLD ME that they are not here as a career teacher, but to "make money, have fun, and figure out what they want to do with their life". And you need a reality check if you think bi-lingual gyopos are really in Korea because they're honestly pursuing teaching careers. That's hilarious.  Sure it's a generalization, but the rare exceptions of gyopos that are truly in Korea to further teaching careers, have worked/volunteered with kids, have an Education, literature, or related degree, have TESOL/teaching degree, and have interned back home.
There are many reasons why the school is replacing Caucasians with Gyopos some reasons are: they don't need to pay things like plane tickets, or even give them housing (just housing allowance), no need for co-teachers, they can have them talk to the parents directly, communication is easier with staff, can do translating, etc. It has little to do with "good will" and everything to do with cost saving and getting more for their money.
If you actually considered what i'm saying with some objectivity instead of taking it personal, you'd realize that it's generally, overall true. Something that most people that work in ESL in Korea know. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Wiltern
Joined: 23 Sep 2009
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 6:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| rooster_2006 wrote: |
| The only gyopos who have no choice but to teach English are those with absolutely no marketable skills whatsoever. After four years of uni, are you still that unskilled? |
Has it occurred to you that there are gyopos who received all their education overseas and know only English like most Caucasians who arrive? And, their reasons for coming might have to do less with earning money or a lack of marketable skills, but more a chance for an extended stay in their 'motherland?' |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
